2-2-2-4 SER MHF vs Copper?

[SALIV8]

I'd venture that RMC would be safer than EMT. I'd also venture that the majority of electrical fires in homes are from old knob and tube wiring.

Like someone else said earlier, an improperly installed copper conductor is just as dangerous as an improperly installed aluminum conductor.

what are your concerns with aluminum wiring? specifics?

Yes rigid is even safer I agree. Charles post was about conduit so I ran with the emt. My issues with al is the movement it shows with temp swings. Expansion/ contraction can be significant. Think of aluminum siding actually popping when the sun hits it. Same idea with the al wire. Also the oxidation problems it shows when surrounded by high humidity or in underground applications can be severe. I will never think it is the safest method.

Yes it is allowed by NEC minimum code and sure it may work most of the time. But I choose copper over al all day long.

If you were given al or copper wiring for free which would you choose?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Having wiring in emt is the safest way to wire. I don't think anyone will argue that. Use all the aluminum you want I don't mind. I would never use it no matter NEC minimum codes.. Don't forget you prefer metal halides and 500w halogen spotlights in your garage. Not what I would call a good decision.

Chicago has some of the lowest cases of electrical fires for a reason. Overkill is underrated especially when it comes to safety.

No, I do not "prefer" metal halides. You seem to act like most GJ folks leave their lights on 24/7. I'm fairly sure I'm in a majority who say that a few hours a week or less is the norm. I merely recognize the reality of how much money an individual can spend on lighting that they will never get the full value from. Kinda tough justifying spending thousands on lighting for a few hours a month, for a hobby. Find me a dozen 8 tube T5HO Lithonia I beams for about $500 and I'll be glad to swap them out and make you happy.

Charles

 

[SALIV8]

No, I do not "prefer" metal halides. You seem to act like most GJ folks leave their lights on 24/7. I'm fairly sure I'm in a majority who say that a few hours a week or less is the norm. I merely recognize the reality of how much money an individual can spend on lighting that they will never get the full value from. Kinda tough justifying spending thousands on lighting for a few hours a month, for a hobby. Find me a dozen 8 tube T5HO Lithonia I beams for about $500 and I'll be glad to swap them out and make you happy.

Charles

Don't get wound up because you like or prefer inexpensive and inefficient lighting. You also seem to like aluminum which is also inexpensive. I prefer to take the road different than yours. I'll spend the extra upfront to recoup on the backside and I also prefer the safest decision when it comes to wiring. We are different breeds.

 

[gymbo39]

Dug the trench yesterday and buried the conduit (2" BTW)
Will be pulling the wire today

 

[gymbo39]

pulled all the wire and everything connected. nice to finally have power in the shop. now its time to get organized

 

[gymbo39]

Thanks to all the posts that had valuable info. Especially like to thank pattenp for your help.
And to those that feel the need for the smart a$$ posts or negative comments, grow up...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Awesome! Glad to help!

 

[ixlr8]

This is MHF, but in 2-2-4-6. It also come as 2-2-2-4.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Southwire-2-2-4-6-Aluminum-MHF-Wire-By-the-Foot-30163099/205001794

This is a timely thread for me as I am about to run power to my shop. Presently I am running a 120v extension cord 120 ft to the shop. It does what I need right now, but I can't run my lift and the compressor at the same time, and I would like to run my welder on 240 rather than 120. From box in house to box in shop is about 140ft, I would like to have at least 60 amp service in the shop.
For a load rating, how does the 2-2-2-4 differ from the 2-2-4-6?
I am assuming that the first two digits are the load, the third digit is neutral and the fourth digit would be ground. I am assuming the 2-2-4-6 would carry the load I need and be a little cheaper.

Thanks,

 

[pattenp]

The 2-2-4-6 is an approved cable assembly and will supply the same amp load. The odd thing is the 2-2-4-6 at my local HD is more expensive ($1.79ft.) than the 2-2-2-4 at my local Lowes($1.47ft.).

This is a timely thread for me as I am about to run power to my shop. Presently I am running a 120v extension cord 120 ft to the shop. It does what I need right now, but I can't run my lift and the compressor at the same time, and I would like to run my welder on 240 rather than 120. From box in house to box in shop is about 140ft, I would like to have at least 60 amp service in the shop.
For a load rating, how does the 2-2-2-4 differ from the 2-2-4-6?
I am assuming that the first two digits are the load, the third digit is neutral and the fourth digit would be ground. I am assuming the 2-2-4-6 would carry the load I need and be a little cheaper.

Thanks,

 

[ixlr8]

The 2-2-4-6 is an approved cable assembly and will supply the same amp load. The odd thing is the 2-2-4-6 at my local HD is more expensive ($1.79ft.) than the 2-2-2-4 at my local Lowes($1.47ft.).

Thank you for that info, to hijack this thread even further. Neither my local Lowes nor HD carry the MHF in 2-2-2-4. HD does carry a URD in 2-2-2-4, for $1.47/ft, I have never seen URD mentioned before but it looks the same as the MHF but I am not sure of its ratings.
Am I good to go with the URD instead of the MHF?
Lowes and HD are my only local options, the local electrical supply house won't sell to me unless I am a licensed contractor.

 

[gayler]

Thank you for that info, to hijack this thread even further. Neither my local Lowes nor HD carry the MHF in 2-2-2-4. HD does carry a URD in 2-2-2-4, for $1.47/ft, I have never seen URD mentioned before but it looks the same as the MHF but I am not sure of its ratings.
Am I good to go with the URD instead of the MHF?
Lowes and HD are my only local options, the local electrical supply house won't sell to me unless I am a licensed contractor.

I think someone had said URD can't be used inside the building. Im in the same boat here, no MHF to be found, only SER. I was also told 2-2-2-4 is good for 100amps in a dwelling, but only 90 amps in an outbuilding.

 

[ixlr8]

I think someone had said URD can't be used inside the building. Im in the same boat here, no MHF to be found, only SER. I was also told 2-2-2-4 is good for 100amps in a dwelling, but only 90 amps in an outbuilding.

I am only looking for 60 amp service. I thought I read somewhere that URD could be used inside, with or without conduit, but I haven't been able to find that reference again. I was hoping those in the know here could help point me in the right direction.

 

[pattenp]

URD is only to be used outside of the structure. You need to transition to SER in an outside junction box for the run into the house and the detached structure. #2 aluminum when used as a branch/feeder circuit is to be on a breaker no larger than a 90A. It doesn't matter if it's in your house or a feed to an outbuilding. As to why URD isn't allowed in the structure is it's insulation is not fire rated. URD where exposed above ground is to be in conduit, but is a direct bury cable. MHF is fire rated and direct bury and is to be in conduit above ground and when installed inside a structure.

 

[ixlr8]

URD is only to be used outside of the structure. You need to transition to SER in an outside junction box for the run into the house and the detached structure.
.......
MHF is fire rated and direct bury and is to be in conduit above ground and when installed inside a structure.

Thank you

 

[wyliesdiesels]

This is a timely thread for me as I am about to run power to my shop. Presently I am running a 120v extension cord 120 ft to the shop. It does what I need right now, but I can't run my lift and the compressor at the same time, and I would like to run my welder on 240 rather than 120. From box in house to box in shop is about 140ft, I would like to have at least 60 amp service in the shop.
For a load rating, how does the 2-2-2-4 differ from the 2-2-4-6?
I am assuming that the first two digits are the load, the third digit is neutral and the fourth digit would be ground. I am assuming the 2-2-4-6 would carry the load I need and be a little cheaper.

Thanks,

As far as the reduced neutral goes, u have to make sure that u meet the code requirements to be able to use a reduced neutral!

 

[ixlr8]

If I run MHF in the house, can I run it in flexible conduit or does it need to be rigid?
I have about 12' from entry to breaker box with several obstructions and it would be much easier to run with flexible conduit.

Thank you,

 

[bmxdad]

So am I reading this right ... MHF (2-2-2-4) can only have a max 90amp breaker when used in an out building? I only need to go about 25' from a 200 amp panel to a hopefully 100 amp sub panel in the garage.

Also, thought this might be helpful with all the wire type acronyms going around.

How to select wire - G & G ELECTRIC AND PLUMBING DISTRIBUTORS

 

[pattenp]

Correct. Overcurrent protection at the main panel is to be no more than 90A for #2 aluminum. The sub-panel can have a 100A mian breaker. The main breaker in the sub acts as a disconnect only since the protection is provided by the 90A breaker in the main service panel.

Edit: The info link you posted does not give total info for wire sizes and amp capacities.
The #2 Al USE listing given as 100A is for when the wire is used for total service feed to a structure vs. when used for a branch feeder. Just be aware there are difference in selecting amp capacities based on application.

So am I reading this right ... MHF (2-2-2-4) can only have a max 90amp breaker when used in an out building? I only need to go about 25' from a 200 amp panel to a hopefully 100 amp sub panel in the garage.

Also, thought this might be helpful with all the wire type acronyms going around.

How to select wire - G & G ELECTRIC AND PLUMBING DISTRIBUTORS

 

[Aceman]

So am I reading this right ... MHF (2-2-2-4) can only have a max 90amp breaker when used in an out building? I only need to go about 25' from a 200 amp panel to a hopefully 100 amp sub panel in the garage.

It's hard to make a blanket statement about the ampacity rating of #2 AL SER cable. If it runs through insulation for very far, it is considered only a 75 amp cable. If no insulation, then it's considered a 90 amp cable.

Before installing or even buying anything, make a thread specific to your install and the guys on here can go over it and give you the do's and don'ts of your particular install.

 

[BFBOB]

Don't forget you prefer metal halides and 500w halogen spotlights in your garage. Not what I would call a good decision.
.

You seem to be implying that MH (Metal Halide) lamps are inefficient. A little research shows that they are on a par (pun intended) with fluorescents and even many LED's, about 4x the lumens per watt of incandescents. Perhaps you're confusing MH's with halogens? Halogens are just incandescents with a fancier mixture of gasses that allows them to run hotter and very slightly more efficiently. And don't forget that there's a wide range of efficiency within lamp types.
Here's a reference for a starting research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy