2-car to 4-car add-on

[SwillRacer]

Hi GJ,

Long time lurker.....first time poster.

Background:

I recently moved from Naperville, IL. to Saint John, IN. For those who don't know, Saint John is southeast suburb of Chicago. Naperville, a southwest suburb of Chicago.

My Naperville house was on a 1/2 acre and had an attached 3-1/2 car garage and a 100+foot driveway. I'm a drag racer so it was very nice to have enough space to house the race car, my daily driver, and the kid hauler/tow vehicle all under one roof with enough additional room for shelving/storage, work bench, air compressor, cherry picker, welder, and all the usual race car supporting equipment.

My Saint John house is on a 1 acre lot, partially wooded. The house itself has the same sq footage as the last house, but it only has a two-car garage. My wife fell in love with this house and the property - this was her (realistic) dream house - so I negotiated with her that if we move, I get to build an additional garage aka. "race shop". She's a fair woman, so she accepted, and now I live in Indiana - low taxes and all!

The New Garage:

So I gleefully started negotiations with local builders to construct a stand alone, 24x30 garage and 90-ft concrete driveway with 10ft ceiling. I also requested that the garage's exterior exactly match the exterior of my house. My estimate request letter indicated that I would handle the insulation, drywall, electric, gas, and paint work. Bascially, I just wanted a slab, a structure, and a driveway.

Long story short, after several estimates of $55k or more, and 2 variance requests with the village, I started to realize that the garage I want to build shouldn't cost more the cars and equipment it will hold. Maybe my sense of what the market is for a garage like this is way off, I don't know, but I don't feel that a bare-bones garage should cost that much money. Am I wrong? Is $55k + a decent price for a bare-bones 24x30 and 90ft concrete driveway. Or is it waaaaay too high?

So I've decided to change the plan...

Plan "B" will be simply to extend the existing attached garage portion of my house. Current measurements are 22ftx23ft. I will add 13 ft to the garage for a total of 22ftx36ft. I should be able to fit the race car (66 Mustang), a 16ft open trailer, and our two daily drivers. I haven't yet gotten on the phone with builders to solicit new estimates.

Anyway, here is my new starting point.......the side of my house. Maybe you guys can help me decide what the footprint of the garage should be? I am not going to extend the entire side of the house by 13ft. Just the garage portion (blude shaded portion).

The first pic is the side of the house (my starting point)
The second pic is the footprint proposed extension A (blue shading)
The third pic is the footprint of proposed extension B (blue shading)

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I will update this thread as the project progresses...

 

[SwillRacer]

Interesting......I just received another quote email this morning from a builder who said he'd charge approx $25k for the slab and structure for a stand-alone garage. If I can get the concrete driveway done for $10k, then I'll be right in the ballpark for what I expected to spend on the 24x30 stand-alone project (with driveway) mentioned in the post above.

Might have to go back to Plan A if this pans out. I really want a stand-alone garage so I can work late at night, compressor running, music blaring, without worrying about waking up my two youngsters as would be the case if I end up extending the existing attached garage.

I've been told that some contractors will jack up their prices substantially if they don't really want a job - to make it more worth their while. Saint John is a booming area, so my little garage project is probably small potatoes compared to the $500k + homes that are going up everywhere. Maybe that's why my job estimates are higher than I expected?

If Plan A (stand-lone garage) returns to the realm of possibility, I'll post up those plans and pics.

 

[RSr]

I really can't see how extending the existing garage is going to come in any cheaper than the detached. Too much work matching existing roof lines, removing siding, cutting the driveway.... to custom compared with a detached garage.

I'd recommend axing the driveway from the bid since there are plenty of flatwork only concrete companies who would be happy to bid that without the garage part.

25k for the garage with a foundation and slab seems very very reasonable, 45k seems pretty high. Hard to really know without more information about the foundation and roof design.

 

[matt_i]

Saint John is a booming area, so my little garage project is probably small potatoes compared to the $500k + homes that are going up everywhere. Maybe that's why my job estimates are higher than I expected?

I think you have hit the nail on the head...

I also think concrete contractors are nearing the traditional end of their season until spring so in a "turnkey" bid the General contractor may already know they will have to pay higher prices to get the concrete part done. And it may also come with delays...the framing stage and onward can be done all thru the winter barring heavy snow and pouring rain...but until the concrete is done its a waiting game for the framers.

 

[astroracer]

And who says you need a concrete driveway right away? Have the drive prepped when the contractor does the building site prep and just throw some crushed limestone on it for a few years. Do the pavement later...
And consider going 26' wide on that garage. You have to remember, the building dimensions are to the 'outside" of the structure, inside dimensions will be 1' to 1 1/2' smaller depending on framing size...
Mark

 

[trashmanssd]

Depends where you live. I am in mass and my 28x36 detached garage structure alone was 65K, driveway was 5K, landscaping 5K, surveying and and the plans for the town for location and approval for set back from vernal pool (tiny frog pond behind my house literally 30 foot round wet spot) and plans for new septic leching field location 5K, removing and replacing leaching field (yes I have 2.5 acres and because of set back and terrain I had to move my leching field to make space for the garage) 15K. thats was a shell with basic electricity, very nice vinyl siding, and a nice partial dormer with windows on one side to make it match the look of the house. Stick built to match your house gets expensive, its not like the metal buildings if you can get away with putting one those up its way cheaper. this year I put another 20K into it to insulate and sheet rock and upgrade the electrical and put in heat pump for a/c and heat. but now my boat and my toy car have a real nice place to sleep every night.

 

[Big Dad]

I built a 32 x 38 with 12 '5 side walls

and, all done, everything ..site work, concrete, Sheetrock, material labor
landscape ..everything

71,000

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=317538&page=5

 

[doubleot]

Any updates op?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[BoneChop]

I live near you and I am in a similar situation, I went from 24 x 36 to a 20 x 20. I considered a 2nd garage but may end up expanding. Also watch how it affects your taxes....
Subscribed!

 

[SwillRacer]

Sorry guys....no updates. We're in a holding pattern until spring. After consulting with some more knowledgeable people (town building & planning office), I actually can't extend my current garage. Long story short, I can't build any structures that would be closer to the street than my current structure (house) even if I'm adding on to the current structure. Does that make sense? So it looks like I'm back to plan A, a stand alone garage.

I've had some more contractors come out to bid on the job but haven't heard back from anyone yet. It's winter now and these guys all seem to move in slow motion. I'll post up info as it comes in. I'm in a rush right now to get out the door to see the Last Jedi with the wife and kids (we're huge SW fans) so I'll post up my stand alone garage blue prints at a later time.

May the force be with you!!!

 

[SwillRacer]

Just a little update here...

I've signed a contract with a builder and expect the project to get underway as soon as the local weather (Northwest Indiana) stays above 50 degrees as, per the builder, it will be better drying weather for the concrete slab and driveway.

That said, as I mentioned in the last post, my overall plans have changed considerably. I'm back to plan A (see my initial post), albeit a downsized version. In order to save a few bucks, I downsized to a 24x24 stand-alone garage with 9ft ceilings. Originally, I wanted a 24x30 with 10ft ceilings. My wife was really adamant about not going above $40k for the project, all in. She also didn't want our backyard to feel "closed in" by a giant structure and so I had to make some concessions. You know what they say, "Happy wife, happy life...." So the garage structure/slab and concrete driveway will be done for $33k. That gives me a $7k budget to do the painting, drywall/insulation, and electricity by myself and/or with knowledgeable friends. I'm sure I can squeeze a few extra bucks if I need to.

Great plan, right? Not so much...I'm finding out that my local municipality is becoming quite the pain in the ***. For example, I was planning on doing the electrical work with instruction & help from an electrician friend from nearby Chicago, IL. Not gonna happen. It seems that whomever does the work has to be certified to work in the town I live in, Saint John. Not a state cert, mind you, no-no it needs to be a local cert. I've never heard of this before...Well, I'm not going to make my guy jump through all those hoops. Even if I were to do it myself, I literally would have to go take their certification test, which I undoubtedly would fail. If I don't play ball, the city won't approve the work at inspection time even if everything is done 100% correctly. Seems like a nice little racket they've got running there....

Has anyone heard of a local certification before? I have not, but I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Also, is anyone here heating their garage on electric? A 24x24 is less than 600 sq feet so I was thinking I'd do a 220v circuit and go with a ceiling mounted 7500 watt forced air heater. I do not need full-time heat, or I'd definitely heat with nat gas. This garage is for storing and working on a drag race car as well as my yard tractor and a go-cart....not a whole lot of work will be done in the garage during the winter. Am I wrong? Should I bite the bullet and go with gas?

At any rate, I'll score some design drawings and post here. Pics will be forthcoming as well...

 

[Hugemoose]

Technically, my township says the same thing when it comes to pulling permits. Of course when we bought our house and did the reno mostly ourselves, including hiring a shady (which we found out about later) contractor for some bigger stuff, we pulled exactly zero permits.

When I later looked into permits I saw all the fine print and honestly, I'm glad I managed to get it all done under the radar. I can't even install a single outlet unless it's by a licensed electrician in my Township! Not even the county. Sorry you have to deal with all of this nonsense. Our tax dollars at work!!

 

[SwillRacer]

Woot!! Work starts today!! The concrete guys showed up today!! Pics later!!

 

[Deezler]

Local township certification for any electrical work? That's total BS. As long as the inspected work has been done to code, it should pass.

Congrats on getting started, I'm sure it'll be a wild ride.

 

[SwillRacer]

Build Day: 1

Mood: Like a hyper puppy!! Can't wait to get home!!

Update:

So after a fair amount of text message begging, I was able to get the wife to stop what she was doing and snap a (really bad) pic of where the 24x24 slab will go.

Me: "Come on, Hun. Paaaa-leeeeease, I need to post pics on Garage Journal...."
Her: "Who?"

LOL....

Next:

I'll snap some better pics and scan a diagram later after I get home which will better show what we're trying to accomplish here.

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[SwillRacer]

"Huckleberry" waits patiently for it's new home...

 

[SwillRacer]

Hey all.....here are a few pics from Wednesday. We had a few health issues pop up with my wife's grandfather on Weds night and so no time for fun stuff like GJ. Yesterday the crew came out and finished framing for the garage slab and driveway and more gravel has been brought in as well.

More pics will be posted as progress is made...

 

[RSr]

Looks like your off to a good start. You said in your original post that you needed 2 variances for the project, was the second curb cut one of them? I keep seeing more posts where people say their township/city prohibits more than one driveway.

 

[Jacko264]

please post the plans its hard working out whats going on in the photos
but please keep the photos coming

Graham

 

[SwillRacer]

Preemptive Answer: YES!! It's a steep driveway. Yes, it will be slick in the winter when there is snow on the ground. However, this structure is being built exclusively to store and work on my drag race mustang and maybe a classic mustang a few years down the road from now, and so it will never be used during winter months. This driveway WILL make a great/smooth sled run for my 7 and 10 year olds.

 

[SwillRacer]

Looks like your off to a good start. You said in your original post that you needed 2 variances for the project, was the second curb cut one of them? I keep seeing more posts where people say their township/city prohibits more than one driveway.

Variance #1 was for the height of the garage. One of my goals from the get-go is to have the garage match the house as closely as possible. I don't want it to look like an add-on or an afterthought. The roof of my house is about 18ft tall on that side and has a 10-12 pitch. Building code says: "Detached residential garages shall not exceed the lesser of 14' or one story in height as measured from the existing grade to the roof peak of the structure." This structure will be 16ft, 11 1/2 inches tall with a hair under an 8/12 pitch. The Building & Planning Board liked that I was trying to match my house as much as possible.

Variance #2 is for having a detached garage. Code says: "Detached garages are prohibited on lots with a lot area less than one acre." I've got .94 acres.

The fact that there is a 2nd driveway was never even brought up by the Building & Planning Board.

Will do my best to scan my plat later with the garage and driveway drawn in...I don't have a copy of the builder's plans (yet). When I went before the board for the variance, I had different building plans for the garage that I bought off the internet. But after working with the builder, we decided to scrap the original plans and he submitted new plans (similar dimensions - just structural differences) when getting the building permit.

 

[SwillRacer]

I drew up this diagram when talking to builders in order to show them what I had in mind....the dimensions have been modified since then as follows:

-Garage is now 24 x 24
-Driveway is now 72 ft long and 10 ft wide with a flare at the bottom to 14 ft to allow for
easier turn-in. The wife requested that we move the garage forward toward the street "as much as possible" to avoid losing the "openness" of our backyard. Yeeeeeees, Dear....

House faces north east (slightly more north than east)

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[SwillRacer]

Concrete for the slab is being poured as I type. Pics later....

 

[SwillRacer]

Sorry guys...Heavy T-storms in the area last night. Didn't get a change to snap pics. Will try again today if not raining.

 

[SwillRacer]

Update: Sorry guys, I'm having issues uploading photos to this site. Can't quite figure it out. I was able to get a couple pics loaded up, but for some reason every subsquent attempt afterwards has been met with the following error:

Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing.

If this occurred unexpectedly, please inform the administrator and describe the action you performed before you received this error.

Anyway, here's what the concrete looks like...I've tried and tried to upload more pics, but it won't let me.

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Yes, it IS steep. But it's actually less steep in person. And, believe it or not, it's not even the steepest driveway in my neighborhood. LOL!!

 

[SwillRacer]

View media item 82965
I've got more pics of the slab and the drive from various angles.....I'll try again from my hope computer. I wonder if my network security here at work has something to do with this? Then again, every pic I've posted so far has been from work.

 

[RSr]

Any luck with getting the garage slab pictures uploaded? When does framing begin?

 

[SwillRacer]

Framing begins next week!

 

[onemanarmy]

nice. very handy to have a separate drive.

not too steep for a trailer or low vehicle break over? Backing a heavy trailer up a hill is hell on transmissions.

 

[Styx]

Looking good... I had the same problem with pictures Are you posting from a phone or your computer? I post from my phone now using google chrome and its working good now. I also hear people using tapatalk and loving it but I wasn't a fan when I tried it. too many pop-ups and such.
As for the shop you will be very happy that you did the stand alone rather than the add on to the house. It's a great hid away from wife and kids for sure...lol...
Keep up updated...

Cheers Randy

 

[TomcoPDR]

Looking good. Tuning in for this build

 

[freddybaker]

Looks like you're off to a good start! keep updating the thread