2 Post Lift on Control Joint

[sjvicker]

I assume the Hilti epoxy is superiors to just a Hilti anchor (without epoxy)? Can anyone confirm? I assume challenger doesn't use this as their "standard" install procedure due to the cost of the epoxy?

I've installed several jib cranes and in every situation the epoxy was specified over the wedge anchors. I know the "cone" of pullout is the same but after using it and wedge anchors, I definitely trust it more than a wedge anchor. It's likely not used as a standard for 2 post lifts because its more expensive and requires more prep as the holes must be completely clean of dust before setting the epoxy.

I think you're going to have to come to terms with the fact you'll have vacated holes or cut fasteners in your slab when this is all said and done.

 

[dave*99]

I assume the Hilti epoxy is superiors to just a Hilti anchor (without epoxy)? Can anyone confirm? I assume challenger doesn't use this as their "standard" install procedure due to the cost of the epoxy?

The Hilti (or any manufacturers) wedge anchor is a completely different stud than the epoxy secured stud. You do not add epoxy to wedge anchor. You use an epoxy anchor with epoxy.

And there are different types of epoxy secured anchors.

Mechanical vs. Adhesive Anchors - Ask Hilti USA

Choosing the right anchoring technology depends on your conditions and needs

ask.hilti.com

 

[dave*99]

Great thought! This never even crossed my mind but a 1/2" hole is much easier to drill than a 3/4"!

Nah, I've done this job. 5 1/2" wedge anchors in a thickened slab. My SDS plus drill with a 3/4" bit cut cleanly and quickly through 4000 psi concrete. A lift installer probably carries a heavier drill than mine. If someone used 1/2" anchors...... OMG. WTF.

 

[Cummins2014]

The Hilti (or any manufacturers) wedge anchor is a completely different stud than the epoxy secured stud. You do not add epoxy to wedge anchor. You use an epoxy anchor with epoxy.

And there are different types of epoxy secured anchors.

My understanding of the epoxy process from Challenger is simply epoxy and all thread. These isn't actually an wedge anchor used (see below)?

 

[mike93lx]

My understanding of the epoxy process from Challenger is simply epoxy and all thread. These isn't actually an wedge anchor used (see below)?

Correct. Epoxy is the anchor

 

[Cummins2014]

Correct. Epoxy is the anchor

So epoxy (done correctly) would be superior to wedge anchors?

 

[mike93lx]

So epoxy (done correctly) would be superior to wedge anchors?

My understanding is that epoxy is significantly stronger and can deal with a hole that isn't as "nice" as a wedge.

That said, use their recommendation and spec and either will be fine.

I'd use epoxy if this was my install, but I am no pro

 

[dave*99]

My understanding of the epoxy process from Challenger is simply epoxy and all thread. These isn't actually an wedge anchor used (see below)?

Use all thread because that's what Challenger recommends.
Some epoxy anchors are not all thread. It depends upon the application.

 

[Cummins2014]

@dave*99 thanks. I’ll do some more research on what their anchor looks like.

 

[dave*99]

@dave*99 thanks. I’ll do some more research on what their anchor looks like.

The Challenger doc you posted specifies grade 5 all thread. Don’t make yourself nuts. It will be fine.

 

[wssix99]

So epoxy (done correctly) would be superior to wedge anchors?

No. Not at all. Like-for-like, both develop the same pull-out resistance in the concrete if properly installed. Neither is superior to the other.

The document you posted references using epoxy anchors as an alternate to wedge anchors when you are too close to a slab edge or a crack. So, this alternate may be a help for your problem.

Wedge anchors and epoxy anchors both have their pros and cons. Wedge anchors are much easier to confirm a proper/safe install. As @mike93lx pointed out, epoxy is more forgiving on the hole - but the hole needs to be clean, brushed out and the full bond of the anchor is important.

Challenger's procedure is taking the epoxy anchors deeper into the concrete to develop more pull-out strength since part of the cone is compromised due to the edge. I expect epoxy is preferred in this situation so a longer wedge anchor would not risk cracking the concrete itself so close to the edge.

Not all epoxies are equal in their properties and they tend to 'creep' under tensile forces. Don't accept anything except the specific epoxies listed in Challenger's document.

 

[Beemer]

The installer says that this is a fine install and he has done many like this in the past without issues.

I can't count the number of times a contractor has said "That's the way I have always done it and never had a problem".
My Architect would always respond "That doesn't make it right".
And many times when the "always done it that way" solution goes bad the tune changes to "I'm just a contractor and I don't know about those things."

Is it a problem moving it to where you are comfortable with and take all the concern out of your mind?

 

[Cummins2014]

@Beemer installer hasn’t stated his plan of attach yet. I’m calling him today as when I spoke to him Thur he said he would contact me this past weekend to let me know what day he will be out to move it.

My thought are lift will have to move forward roughly 18” to 20” and if it would have been installed correctly it would have only had to move forward 8”. So I’m “loosing” 10” of floor space in front of a car when it’s lifted.

 

[zkdiesel]

I don't understand why he used 1/2" anchors because the lift is sold with 3/4" anchors. Some reason he has to believe these are "upgrades" right?

I'm trying to get a Challenger rep out here but seems I'm making them angry because I've called them a handful of times and "they have more than 1 lift to worry about" (quote from Challenger sales rep). I'm working on an email to his manager now as I'm HOT. Anyone know a big wig at Challenger? I've called the 3 closest sales rep's. 2 of them were nice but directed me to talk to my local sales rep that was the one who said he had more than 1 lift to worry about.

Go put a tape across top of anchor and post. They sure look bigger then 1/2” in picture when referenced offf hydraulic fitting size

 

[Cummins2014]

Go put a tape across top of anchor and post. They sure look bigger then 1/2” in picture when referenced offf hydraulic fitting size

I measured them with a tape. They are definitely 1/2” diameter.

 

[dave*99]

I measured them with a tape. They are definitely 1/2” diameter.

This is a 3/4 anchor. It has a reduced diameter at the top so you can strike it with a hammer and not damage the threads.
Is this what you have? What size wrench fits the nut?

 

[zkdiesel]

This is a 3/4 anchor. It has a reduced diameter at the top so you can strike it with a hammer and not damage the threads.
Is this what you have? What size wrench fits the nut?

100% correct and what OP has

 

[CraigStu]

I think losing 10" of floor space will be fine. Realizing that, like most of us, you are not a contractor still, if you are going to worry about 10" than you should have been there to tell them where you wanted the saw cuts. And you should have been there when they installed the lift. I understand you need to work to earn a living but some things are important. Telling them behind which door the lift goes and then leaving.....I hope to read in the coming days that the lift is now safe and you are a happy camper.