2-post lift without a slab?

[sierradmax]

My brother-in-law, a mechanic, has decided to go into business on his own. He's made some peculiar arrangement in which the land owner has a piece of land that's in the early stages of development. At this time, they've negotiated to install a "temporary fabric structure" with end walls, on some 2'x2'x6' precast concrete blocks. Said blocks are 3,500lbs. each. This is what he will work out of until the permanent building is ready for occupancy.

The approach with the temporary structure is such that the owner won't have to pay taxes on the building, although I'm willing to bet it will become permanent for on-site storage.

My thought was to pour the slab and try to get away with it, specifically for a 2-post 12,000# lift. However, after several beers and redneck ingenuity discussion, the idea of burying the precast "mafia" blocks as a base under each column and maybe four additional, offset as "deadmen" anchors would suffice? Deadmen anchors will attach via cable to the top of each column to stabilize the lift.

Anyone try similar or does this sound like it's asking for a funeral?

 

[sberry]

However, after several beers and redneck ingenuity discussion,

I was going to ask if beer was involved.

 

[sierradmax]

I was going to ask if beer was involved.

Hey, what has come about in our society where alcohol wasn't involved?

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Call the lift manufacturer and ask them the question........ Be prepared for 30 seconds of silence then laughter.

 

[ace10]

Wait, wut?

 

[Ilikeike]

Those pre cast stackable blocks don't seem like they have a very high tinsel strength, we have a few around used for barricades and road closures and they seem to chip/crumble pretty easy when banged around with various lifts.
I'd rather dig and pour 2 to 4 yards of concrete for a base.

 

[brownbagg]

i have serious thought about this too, but without at least a ten yard footer to counter balance the weight load

just buy a four post

 

[bczygan]

Photos when he does it.....

Bill

 

[Metallitubby]

Oh dis gun be guud.

 

[Jking24]

I don't know what the blocks are made of but my first thought would be to check the dimensions of what the lift manufacture recommends be done/poured if the floor is considered inadequate if it exceeds those dimensions it will probably be fine providing their placed on a properly compacted base so they don't settle or shift. But in your neck of the woods you would probably have to go 2 blocks deep to prevent frost heave. It's probably less work to just pour a footing for the lift abs be done

 

[GMCGarage]

Get with an engineer and they could design the blocks based on the strength of the anchors, i.e. if they are only good for X, it doenst matter if you have X+Y footing, anchor is the weak link.

Or call them and ask for the overturning moment, and design for that.

 

[matt_i]

In some ways the 2 post lift is in some ways like a jib crane.

It relies on the concrete as a structural piece in both vertical load and transferring the tipover moment to the earth below.

I really think you'd be better off pouring the slab. Just thinking about rough numbers a 6" thick monolithic slab x 15' x 20' is about a 5 yard pour, easy to form on grade and pour straight from the truck, screed across the forms, bull float, steel trowel when the bleed water leaves, spray the curing sealer and put up the lift in three weeks.

Vs a bunch of excavation, uncertain ground contact with the monolith, no idea of the sterngth of the block or its reinforcement (is it just a "waste" pour" to clear out the truck or a low psi thing?).

 

[sierradmax]

I don't know what the blocks are made of but my first thought would be to check the dimensions of what the lift manufacture recommends be done/poured if the floor is considered inadequate if it exceeds those dimensions it will probably be fine providing their placed on a properly compacted base so they don't settle or shift. But in your neck of the woods you would probably have to go 2 blocks deep to prevent frost heave. It's probably less work to just pour a footing for the lift abs be done

Blocks are typically poured from trucks returning to the yard with mix left over. And they have some rebar in them. They're around $100.

How much different is a footing going to be compared to a precast block? Who knows but both would have sub-footing soil requirements. I'm going to suggest an engineered footing.

 

[sberry]

Is tax liaboility a make or break deal in this case? We gonna fart around to save 400 a year in tax and be out in the weather, where you gonna put anything for this? Cant even use a floor jack in this scheme let alone a hoist. Gonna grind out some junk cars in this? People gonna drop their cars off in a tent? Better yet, with a partner/property owner worried about some minor taxes. We are full circle in that the opening post was most likely an accurate scenerio,,, beer inspired. Maybe even a shot or 2.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Why not bury a couple I beams?

 

[Daveyclimber]

If it were me, I would have someone come out with a 36" augers and pour columns in the ground. Bell shape the bottom of the holes. Previous posters are right about the ecology blocks being poured from left over whatever is in the mixer when it comes back.

 

[sberry]

If I had to do this would pour a slab, something I could build around.

 

[pmiranda]

I would do it right, pour the slab, and budget for breaking it up and hauling it off when you leave.

 

[mcbane]

The only two things you can’t avoid are death and taxes. But I admire your spirit. Risk death in order to avoid taxes.


Sent from my iPhone using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[firebirdparts]

It seems like, under the circumstances, you'd just work under a 4 post. Why not? I don't like them, but in a tent it seems pretty good.

 

[pmiranda]

See if you can find out what the taxes are on a "driveway".

 

[majerus]

Seems like generally this would be a bad idea. Look into a Single Post, or a 4 post. If your working on heavy equipment they do have jacks that can lift from the tires and work independently however those are very expensive.

iDEAL MSC-6KLP Mobile Single Post Lift

 

[Farmall450]

Just pour a slab and have a real floor for your quasi-permanent building

 

[boatshoes]

Who's going to get their car worked on in a tent and pay the going rate for it?

 

[pmiranda]

One of the best independent BMW shops in town here works in open-air (but covered) stalls in the front yard of what used to be the owner's house They store all their rolling toolboxes in the garage every night and use the rooms for office space and parts storage.
They can do it because there was really loose zoning when they opened and now they're grandfathered in. Everybody else in town works out of leased spaces in industrial areas and pass on the high rent to their customers.
I'd be worried about securing your tools, and yeah, 4-post is the easiest way to go.

 

[imjustdave]

My brother-in-law, a mechanic, has decided to go into business on his own. He's made some peculiar arrangement in which the land owner has a piece of land that's in the early stages of development. At this time, they've negotiated to install a "temporary fabric structure" with end walls, on some 2'x2'x6' precast concrete blocks. Said blocks are 3,500lbs. each. This is what he will work out of until the permanent building is ready for occupancy.

The approach with the temporary structure is such that the owner won't have to pay taxes on the building, although I'm willing to bet it will become permanent for on-site storage.

My thought was to pour the slab and try to get away with it, specifically for a 2-post 12,000# lift. However, after several beers and redneck ingenuity discussion, the idea of burying the precast "mafia" blocks as a base under each column and maybe four additional, offset as "deadmen" anchors would suffice? Deadmen anchors will attach via cable to the top of each column to stabilize the lift.

Anyone try similar or does this sound like it's asking for a funeral?

What are you trying to get away with by pouring a concrete slab?
Temp setup is just that temp, little to no tax.

My bigger concern would be Power, sewer, water, safety working on cars.

Eco blocks sound great for dirt and temp walls, but for a lift just pour a floor, it will be way nicer to work on than dirt or gravel and should be much safer, then punching in some eco blocks, and trying to make them level, sound, ETC.

 

[tonyciambrone]

I say go for it

I wouldn't think too much about how, just post the pictures once its done

 

[Cobra5150]

Not only pics but video when he lifts the first car. Taken from a safe distance of course. Make sure insurance is paid up.

 

[lolaetype]

Sorry but this sounds a lot like something preceded by the call of, "Hey, y'all, watch this. Bite the bullet and at least install a partial slab with extra thick sections where the columns for the lift go. The cost will be moderate compared to the possible hospital bills.

 

[crazylunker]

pour a slab(I mean patio as they usually aren't taxed) He will need a hard surface to roll things around on and be safer at the same time. Instead of buying the usual cement wire, get hog fence sections from tractor supply as they are heavier and cheaper. There is usually a 6yd min when ordering so he should be able to get a decent size 6" thick slab. I would go at least 4000psi

 

[sierradmax]

I knew this post would generate alot of skepticism and critique.

I stress that this is a temporary solution for a year or two. A 4 post will also be purchased but that's easier to deal with.

I don't know the specific credentials of my Brother-In-Law but he has ASE certifications, is one of a handful in the state with a high level of inspection qualifications and has a list of clientele that will bring their commercial fleet vehicles to him, no matter where he goes. I realize working out of a tent is not visually appealing but everyones' situation is different and he doesn't have many options for leased building locations. This gets him functioning within a month or two and in the doors of a new building (under lease agreement), within say, 2 years.

Attached is a picture of a 40'x80' temporary structure I installed for a customer in 2017 and is still functioning. It is not taxed in our town as it sits on two 40' connexes. This was the initial inspiration for my Brother-in-law's temporary building, just at a much smaller scale.

For the time being, I've instructed him to contact the lift manufacturer for pier and slab requirements. Crush-R-Run anywhere else within the structure. By the time an appraiser comes, he'll probably be into the new building and the landlord shouldn't see a tax bill for any quasi-permanent structure on the property.

 

[pbon]

I looked into a 2 post in my wood floored carriage house and was advised a 10x14 concrete pad would be needed. In the carriage house at my last house, I cut out the floor, filled in the 5’ tall basement and poured a slab for the 20x30 footprint. I don’t want to do that in my current carriage house. Bought a 4 post.

 

[LS2Swapped92]

As a mechanic with a lift in their garage- having went through all of this

The question comes down to this.

Do you want to risk dying because you didnt want to follow manufacturer specifications for mounting a 2 post correctly?

3,200-5,000lbs above your head is no joke.

Either pour the slabs for the lifts or get a 4 post with a center jack to jack the car up to change tires/etc.

 

[sierradmax]

As a mechanic with a lift in their garage- having went through all of this

The question comes down to this.

Do you want to risk dying because you didnt want to follow manufacturer specifications for mounting a 2 post correctly?

3,200-5,000lbs above your head is no joke.

Either pour the slabs for the lifts or get a 4 post with a center jack to jack the car up to change tires/etc.

I have a two post and a 4 post lift in my very own garage, too. Safety stands on each end of a vehicle.... I agree on the above.