2 to 4 gang electric outlets

[upalms]

OK, here goes my first post. I'm doing my garage as we speak, just got sheet rocked, in the painting process now. Before I sheetrocked, I changed some of the outlets from two to four gang(the electrician put all two gang/plug outlets in), and I'm wondering how to wire them. Right now I have two black wires coming in one side of the plug, two white on the other, fairly standard I would imagine.

While I'm at it, I added another box to plug in my TV, I ran a wire from the box behind the TV down to a box with an existing out let, how do I tie that in?


Thanks, I'll try to start a thread with pics tonight, I'm going with a two tone pain scheme ala Dale Jr., meanwhile you can see some pics here - http://www.flickr.com/photos/9834165@N07/sets/72157603865199658/

Thanks, Todd

 

[5.0vert]

looks good!


nice bandit!

 

[kbs2244]

First, go to Lowes and get a book. The PICS will help a lot.
But for starters;
Black wires on the brass colored screws, whitw wires on the chrome.
It sounds like the electriction took the feed wire to one treminal and the continued it on from the other terminal.
If so, remove the wire that continues on, hook it to your second outlet, and add a jumper from the first outlet, were the orginal wire was, to the second outlet.
You need to do it twice. Black to black and white to white.

 

[tdkkart]

Technically switching all the boxes to doubles and and installing 2 outlets at each location causes you to run afoul of the electrical code. More than likely the original electrician installed 6 outlets on each circuit, which was code. When doubling the outlets you technically need to split them so there are no more than 6 outlets(12 plugs) on each 20amp circuit.

I'd do some checking into how it was wired in the first place. The way you described the connection to the receptacles you have now wasn't to code in the first place, so it's doubtful the rest of it is exactly right either.

 

[Fast Orange]

tdkkart-
Please reference the NEC code article/section that limits the number of outlets per circuit-unless there is a change in the code that I've missed or I'm suffering from Oldtimers Disease,there is no maximum .

George

 

[tdkkart]

I don't have a code book in front of me, going off memory from several years ago, but when was the last time you saw an entire house's outlets run off a single 20amp breaker??
I doubt that you can string 643 outlets together off one breaker, for several reasons it just doesn't make sense, so there has to be a limit somewhere. I don't even like to run all the outlets in a single room off one breaker, and I don't believe you are supposed to have the lights and outlets on same circuit in the same room.

 

[Fast Orange]

tdk-
I'm not singling you out here,but simply by the two posts you've made in this thread,I can tell that you've had no formal training and minimal experience in the electrical field.The NEC sets no limits as to number of recepticals per circuit nor does it prohibit putting both lighting and recepticals on the same circuit in the same room.It's the good judgement and experience of the electrician,the occupant and the code officer,based on the intended use of the area being wired that determines the number and type of outlets.The purpose of the NEC is to ensure the safety of the installation,not the convienience or lack of efficiency.
By the code,if you were so inclined,you could set up a 20A circuit with 643 recepticals on it-but as soon as the load on that circuit exceeded 20A,the breaker would trip,preventing an overload and possible fire.
The only part of the code that refers to the number and placement of recepticals is the article that mandates one receptical for every 12 feet of wall,and a receptical in any wall over 24" width in a residential occupancy.This code section is meant to eliminate the need to use extension cords for long term usages,such as table lamps,clocks,etc.
In reference to the original poster's question,he is completely within the code,as long as the work conforms to proper wring methods and practices.As long as the load doesn't exceed the breakers rating for all 12 recepticals,he won't have any problems. Should he decide to plug in and use a combination and number of tools that exceeds the breaker's rating,he'll be making many trips to reset the breaker.I personally wouldn't set up my shop that way,but the code does allow it.
Sorry for the long rant,but it's one of my pet peeves about the 'net and this type of forum-anyone with little or no knowledge on any given subject can post poor or even dangerous information ,simply to add to thier post count.

George

 

[Fast Orange]

upalms-
Your upgrading from single duplex to double duplex recepticals will make it more convienient when working with multiple power tools,saving unplugging and replugging multiple tools while you're working,but it won't allow you to run more tools than what you could with single duplexes.Since you've already rocked the garage,it's too late to split the circuit and increase the capacity.You just can't run too many tools at the same time.If you do,you'll be making a trip to the panel to reset the breaker.Not necessarally a safety problem,just an inconvienience.
As to the proper way to install the second receptical,pick up a good DIY electrical book and look up "pigtails".While using the terminals on the recepticals to wire them all in parallel is done all the time,it puts the full load of the circuit on the jumpers built into the recepticals.Pigtailing puts only the load of any one receptical on that particular receptical.
Don't forget the GFCI protection if required,and above all,DON'T FORGET THE GROUNDS.

George

 

[rburke65]

Fast Orange, you are correct. How many times have I read an answer to someones question on any type of forum, and then two days later you read, "oops! Never mind. I was wrong." You know damn well the person who asked the question has already either acted upon the advice by now. You, The reader, must realize that these are mostly OPINIONS or ASSUMPTIONS.

 

[flesburg]

The National Fire Protection Association is the author of the National Electrical Code. It involves fire prevention and fire protection and fire insurance protection etc. It has NOTHING to do with "good sense" when it comes to wiring a garage (or a house) except to prevent dangerous wiring.

As an example, there are huge sections on farm and barn wiring, and very little on garage wiring. "Hobby Garages" have only been around for 30 or 50 years. Too new for the NEC to address. Most barns and farms are gone, but the NEC will take another 40 or 50 years to catch up with reality. Maybe it is a government bureaucracy. IE the requirement that fire prevention equipment has to be present in a commercial food storage area. (AND that includes walk in freezers). (I guess frozen hamburger might spontaneously combust). (NO joke, a real situation). But I digress....

The breaker in an electric circuit is there to protect the wiring, and keep it from burning and starting a fire. It is not there to protect the machine being powered. Or you the operator of the tool.

In a garage being used by one "hobbiest" using one tool at a time, convenience of a lot of outlets in the work area is more important than the capacity of the circuit. How many tools can you operate and one time? At the most I think I can run two, my compressor and something else, but then they are never on the same circuit in my garage.

I probably have a total of 15 or 16 double 110 volt outlets on each circuit. They are there for convenience as I move around and do not want to use extension cords. By the same token, in my wood shop, I have 5 220 outlets on one circuit. (I can only run one table saw at a time), but I sure do not want to run extension cords all over the floor), and one outlet per breaker is real overkill, just as 6 110 volt outlets per circuit is overkill..(maybe a good idea in a commercial building), but not in a one (or two) person hobby garage.

 

[tdkkart]

BTW, I found the reference to the 6 receptacles/circuit, it was in the local county modifications to the NEC code that I was required to follow a few yea4rs ago when I wired a new house the neighbor was building. 2000sq/ft house, inspected by the county/city inspector. NO deficiances found on that one or many other smaller jobs I've done.

No, I don't have a shingle hanging over my door, but I do have enough COMMON SENSE to know right from wrong, and what will and won't work.

Fast Orange, Just what size wire do you suggest I use to wire those 643 receptacles to one breaker?? Gonna be a hell of a long run for #12???

 

[Fast Orange]

tdk-
If you put the recepts on 1' centers the length of that 650' long chicken coop,you could get by with #4 thhn for your primaries....
Seriously,I try to keep to a max of 8-10 recepts for convenience outlets in bedrooms and other low power use areas,in kitchens ,about 4 for general use on the countertops/islands and dedicated circuits for the refrigerator and microwave.In a hobby garage,say a 24'x36',I would ,for example,use about 6 -20A circuits with 4-6 recepts on each circuit.In addition to these general purpose outlets,I'd probably run dedicated circuits for any welders,plasma cutters,diesel block heaters,air compressors,etc.One of the things I try to do when practical is to put at least 3 outlets from different circuits at the workbench,then run the circuits so that no 2 adjacent outlets are on the same circuit.
Something else that I've been doing lately for high end houses is to put in dedicated circuits for the home entertainment equipment-usually a 20A circuit with about 4-6 recepts concentrated in the area where the bulk of the equipment will be located.The same can be done in a home office for computers,printers,etc.Make the first outlet in each circuit a high quality feed-through surge protector and you won't have the tangled mess of cordsthat you usually find in these areas.Inspectors love it when you do it this way-

George

 

[scott657]

Actually the code does put a limit on the # of receptacles. If there is no specific purpose for receptacle (15a) it will be rated at 180 va or 1.5 amps. a 20 amp circuit will only be loaded to 80% of its capacity so 16 amps divided by 1.5 amps gives you 10 recepts on a 20 amp circuit.
By the way according to the code your 220 circuits are for 1 outlet each
My code book is at work

 

[Iron-Iceberg]

The same can be done in a home office for computers,printers,etc.Make the first outlet in each circuit a high quality feed-through surge protector and you won't have the tangled mess of cordsthat you usually find in these areas.Inspectors love it when you do it this way-

George[/QUOTE]

George what is a good feed-through surge protector? I really want to do this at my house. I just hate having those surge protectors and cords all wrapped around my feet.

 

[Fast Orange]

Go to hubbell-wiring .com and search TVSS receptacles-they have several models with various ratings-the higher the rating,the higher the price.I believe Leviton also makes comparable units.
Something to keep in mind regarding TVSS(surge supression)-no matter how good a TVSS you get,no matter how many you install,no matter how well you layer the protection,there are no gaurantees that a big spike can't fry your stuff.The idea is to decrease the odds that many smaller spikes get to your electronics.A direct lightning strike on your incoming power line ,even with the best protection,is going to let the smoke out of any electric device in your house.
The best way to put the odds in your favor is to start with a panel-mounted whole house unit at your main panel.The unit I prefer is made by Leviton and is about a 6"x6" box that mounts next to the panel and has a red and a green indicator light on the face to let you know if it's functioning.The wiring ties into a 2 pole breaker and the ground bar in the panel.The next layer is the TVSS recepts mentioned above,placed to protect the electronic equipment.The panel mounted unit takes the bulk of the spike and the recepts bleed off even more to ground.If the spike is within the capacity of the surge suppressors,your electronics will be OK. Keep in mind that most residential TVSS devices are sacrificial-they will do their job,but there's a good chance that they'll need to be replaced after they've done doing it.

George

 

[Fast Orange]

Scott-
My codebook is also not at hand,but IIRC,that article of the code is meant more as a suggestion for commercial occupancies than as a hard and fast rule.My experiences with various inspector's interpretations of that article is that they would rather have more outlets on a circuit,minimizing the need for extension cords,than limit the number of places that an appliance can be plugged in without an extension cord.
As for derating the circuit to 80%,I believe that only applies to continuos loads and lighting.
The code allows for multiple 240V convienence outlets to allow portable equipment,such as welders to be plugged in in multiple locations,all of which can be tied into the same breaker-again to minimize the use of temporary cords.Good sense and judgement apply to number and placement.
Any article or section of the NEC can be interpreted in many different ways.The interpretation followed in one part of the country may be quite different in another juristriction.The ultimate authority on the code in any given place is the "Authority Having Juristriction",who is usually the electrical inspector for that town or county.
Having said that,it's not my goal in these postings to engage in a sparring match with everyone who disagrees with me.I do not proclaim myself to be any more of an authority on electrical work than others on this board.My answers are based on my training and experience in the field and on what has worked and been passed by inspectors and thier explanations.When I see something that is blatent misinformation,I will challenge the poster-not to embarass someone,but to at least give cause to further investigation-further discussion of a disputed subject leads to better knowledge and understanding of that subject.
The best source of information regarding the NEC is the NEC Handbook-also published and available from the NFPA,it contains not only the actual code,but explanations and illustrations that clarify the intended interpretations.It's a very expensive book,but one that should be available to anyone with the need to work in the field.

George

 

[JohnK007]

....A direct lightning strike on your incoming power line ,even with the best protection,is going to let the smoke out of any electric device in your house.
George

I can atest to that!! Happened to me in 1992. Everything plugged it at the time of the strike was fried. The Fire Chief told me that the whole house probably glowed when it hit. Fortunately, got the wife and kids out before things got ugly.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Technically switching all the boxes to doubles and and installing 2 outlets at each location causes you to run afoul of the electrical code. More than likely the original electrician installed 6 outlets on each circuit, which was code. When doubling the outlets you technically need to split them so there are no more than 6 outlets(12 plugs) on each 20amp circuit.

I'd do some checking into how it was wired in the first place. The way you described the connection to the receptacles you have now wasn't to code in the first place, so it's doubtful the rest of it is exactly right either.

Huh?

General purpose receptacles are installed based on 180 volt-amperes per strap (220.14(I)) and thus a 15 amp circuit would allow for 10 receptacles (straps) and a 20 amp circuit would allow for 13 receptacles (straps).

Charles

 

[upalms]

OK guy's thanks for all the help/advice/opinions, I got it done. I was simply switching three boxes over, one box was going to be used to plug in my battery chargers, I mounted a 2x6 in the wall between the studs next to the plug to hang all my chargers on. The other I converted was up on my shelf above my main work bench, this is where the cable TV box, VCR/DVD player, and my stereo will be plugged in, no big draw. The third was on top of my bench, so as someone mentioned I could plug in multiple tools while working on a project, and not have to change plugs, though only one would be running at a time.

I also have GFI's in line. I think I should be good.

You can see some pics here, it's getting there - http://www.flickr.com/photos/9834165@N07/sets/72157603865199658/

 

[autoclassicnut]

Hopefully it won't look like this....

 

[porschedude996TT]

Hopefully it won't look like this....

Does this take a special cover?...

 

[dwilliams35]

Actually the code does put a limit on the # of receptacles. If there is no specific purpose for receptacle (15a) it will be rated at 180 va or 1.5 amps. a 20 amp circuit will only be loaded to 80% of its capacity so 16 amps divided by 1.5 amps gives you 10 recepts on a 20 amp circuit.
By the way according to the code your 220 circuits are for 1 outlet each
My code book is at work

There isn't a limit per se on the receptacles: that rating you mention is for commercial applications: While it'd be stupid, you could legally put every plug in the house on one circuit with the exception of the separate laundry and kitchen circuits that are required.

 

[Mr_fixit]

Hopefully it won't look like this....

That looks like my garage...

 

[Mr_fixit]

2 more box extensions, and a regular cover shoud work!

 

[Uncle Buck]

I need to re wire my garage in the worst way. If I am working in the garage and want to shut off the power to the garage all I need to do is kick on a small air compressor and leave all the light plugged in. Within 2-3 minuted it will thrrow the breaker in the basement saving me the walk!

 

[mmg440]

I need to re wire my garage in the worst way. If I am working in the garage and want to shut off the power to the garage all I need to do is kick on a small air compressor and leave all the light plugged in. Within 2-3 minuted it will thrrow the breaker in the basement saving me the walk!

Kinda like last night when I was using a little 120 volt MiG welder threw a power strip that has all the lights on it. The shed was cold maybe that helped the wires stay cool a little longer. Oh that goes back to the safety lighting thread

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26524