200 amp disconnect and panel wiring

[SSStang]

I’m not a electrician. Can you check my wiring and see if I’m missing something?
I know I will need to add a ground bar to the panel inside the shop since the outside panel is bonded. First pic is outside panel

 

[joe6344]

Should be 4 wires ran to the subpanel

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[SSStang]

Could you give it a little more info?
The ground from the grounding rod should connect to the inside panel also?

My house panels seem to only have three wires

 

[pattenp]

You need an equipment grounding conductor (EGC) from the neutral/ground bar in the outside panel to a ground bar in the inside panel. Unless you used a metal ****** to connect the two panels and they are bonded by that ******. If not then move the ground rod conductor to another space on the bar and use the main lug for the EGC to the inside panel.

The service from the meter to the first main disconnect is 3 wires with the neutral bonded to ground and is correct. After that the neutral is to be isolated so make sure the neutral is not bonded in the inside panel.

 

[exranger06]

Having 3 wires feeding a panel is only acceptable if it's the 3 wires going from the meter to the first main panel or disconnect. This is where the neutral is bonded to the ground. Every panel after that (downstream) needs to have FOUR wires feeding it: 2 hot legs, a neutral wire, and a ground wire. And in those downstream panels, the neutral bar must be UNbonded from ground. This is why you need separate wires for the neutral and ground. And this has nothing to do with the ground rods.

The main panel should have 2 ground rods connected to the ground bar. Subpanels that are on the same building as the main panel don't need any ground rods connected to them; all you need is the 4-wire feed.

If the subpanel is in a separate building from the main panel, then you need another set of ground rods and connect them to the ground bar of the subpanel.

 

[SSStang]

The two panels are back to back and connected by a metal ******.

 

[slow]

not an electrician, but can you use yellow for Neutral? Never seen that before.

 

[sberry]

Could if he used white tape,,,ha

 

[pattenp]

not an electrician, but can you use yellow for Neutral? Never seen that before.

The ends need to be marked white. Yellow is not an approved color for the neutral.

 

[sberry]

I dont mind running a 6 from the N bar to the ground bar even with a metal ******. The branch grounds cant get more direct with them landing on the same bar as a copper wire direct. A look forensic would be as plain as day,,, no how, no way that equipment bar was not bonded to neutral service main. Branch faults not carried by a box bond screw but a heavy wire.

 

[SSStang]

So white tape to mark the neutral. I put the bonding screw in the outside panel also.

 

[sberry]

Put a ground bar in the second panel and run a 6 bare or green from it to the neutral bar of the first. Just a subconscious habit I spose but tend to run all 3 wires from the meter together up one side. I doubt it makes a difference in the same enclosure, just habit for some reason.

 

[klassenl]

The two panels are back to back and connected by a metal ******.

Re: needing to run a bonding wire to the panel.

The metal ****** should suffice for bonding after the main. Unless there's some diffrrt rules than I'm used to. A

 

[Dagny]

Can't read the writing on that wire but it is probably not flame retardant and should not enter the building.

It's not the only building in the country done this way.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

You shouldve looked at this thread, post #3, before wiring that.

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=356460

What type of wire is that? If URD, it is not permitted inside the structure.

 

[SSStang]

Ok here are update pics and info
Put ground bar in inside panel
Ran wire from bar to neutral on outside panel.
Put white tape on yellow neutral
Here is pic of wire it doesn’t say urd

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Couple of issues here.

4/0 AL is too small for 200a.

The only rating i can read on the wire is USE-2. Does it say RHH or RHW or xhhw anywhere?

What size is the ground wire? It needs to be #6.

 

[sberry]

I didnt even think about it but just did 2 with 4/0.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

4/0 AL for 200a service entance to a dwelling service panel is fine.

4/0 AL for 200a feeder is not.

 

[sberry]

Thanks, I forgot about that.

 

[sberry]

Re: needing to run a bonding wire to the panel.

The metal ****** should suffice for bonding after the main. Unless there's some diffrrt rules than I'm used to. A

It might be legal but the wire has to be better than a ****** and depending on bond screw to carry faults from circuits from the second panel.

 

[SSStang]

So aluminum 4 wire is to small?
Bare cooper is #6

 

[mike93lx]

So aluminum 4 wire is to small?
Bare cooper is #6

4 is way, way too small.

4/0 is also too small

 

[SSStang]

What wire size do I need then?

 

[mike93lx]

What wire size do I need then?

I believe 250MCM

If you are going to buy new wire, use xhhw, not the stuff you have now

https://www.wireandcableyourway.com/250-mcm-xhhw-2-aluminum-building-wire.html

 

[sberry]

Whoops, where did delete go?

 

[alfredeneuman]

You also should have grounding bushings and jumpers (or grounding locknuts or wedges) on each end of the offset ****** between the panel and the meter
NEC 250.92(B)

 

[SSStang]

Awww man for real? Current Wire is aluminum if that make a difference?

 

[mike93lx]

Awww man for real? Current Wire is aluminum if that make a difference?

Nope

 

[SSStang]

Ok I guess I’ll be getting the correct size wire!
Thank you for your help.
My 200 amp panel for my house has 1/0 awg the house is four years old.

 

[mike93lx]

Ok I guess I’ll be getting the correct size wire!
Thank you for your help.
My 200 amp panel for my house has 1/0 awg the house is four years old.

Is the panel 200a fed from a meter or is it fed from a 200a disconnect?

If the first, it can be OK as the upstream disconnect is what matters

Those wires look burnt. Am I seeing that right?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ok I guess I’ll be getting the correct size wire!
Thank you for your help.
My 200 amp panel for my house has 1/0 awg the house is four years old.

house panel is wrong too then.

who wired it?

i cant tell if thats aluminum or copper but looks like there anti0ox paste on it so assuming its aluminum

if 1/0 aluminum, its GROSSLY undersized.

If copper, its one size too small.

you really need to consult an ampacity chart before picking wire if you dont have the values memorized

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Is the panel 200a fed from a meter or is it fed from a 200a disconnect?

If the first, it can be OK as the upstream disconnect is what matters

Those wires look burnt. Am I seeing that right?

im guessing meter since its 3-wire but who knows with this guy

 

[SSStang]

I was hesitant to post this on here I even started my post with I'm not electrician. I went to a local electrical supplier told the guy what I was doing he wrote up a list of stuff I needed and got me the supplies I needed. I guess he was not very knowledgeable.
I came here for help isn't that what this forum is about?
But who knows this guy?

Thanks for the input I guess

 

[wyliesdiesels]

dont take offense to what i said. im just pointing out the flaws in the install. theres a lot of good info to be had from this group

i would never trust a counter person to pick the parts i need.

need to consult the NEC or ask someone in the field

 

[sberry]

Like anywhere else the counters got good and not so good. Most of them like to work from a list dictated to them and not so much for diy help. I had one a while back thought he might have been doing me a favor and changed the wire size and give me a gob more than I paid for. It was a real problem, I had everything sized for it, cost me quite a bit of hard work. I told the others when setting up an account,,,, I might be wrong but dont sub without checking.

 

[SSStang]

4/0 AL for 200a service entance to a dwelling service panel is fine.

4/0 AL for 200a feeder is not.

So I have to change all the wires from the meter box to outside panel and from that panel to the panel inside?

I hope to head to the store today or tomorrow to get the correct size wiring

250 mcm correct?

Thank you for your help.

 

[Bert_]

4/0 AL for 200a service entance to a dwelling service panel is fine.

4/0 AL for 200a feeder is not.

The feeder wire is never required to be larger than the service wire.

Yellow neutral is normal. I get triple rated urd with a yellow neutral all the time.

 

[Terry D]

I would check with your local codes before changing the wiring. Some areas allow 4/0 aluminum for services and feeders.