200 Amp Generator Service

[shillamus]

I am investigating installing 200 amp (120/240 single phase) electrical generator service for a garage

Any advice or experience is greatly appreciated.I haven't found a very useful book on the subject yet.

Kohler and Generac make some nice units around 20 kw. LPG seems to be the fuel of choice. Please share any brand names you have had success with.


The Generacs are advertised as backup for grid electric. Are they built to serve continuously?

Is there a benefit to three phase? Is three phase recommended for continuous service?

Thanks All

 

[astroracer]

Is this going to power the shop over consumer available electrical service? Have you looked into cost per day to run it? What will you be saving over a regular hookup? If you haven't considered this it would a good thing to look into.
Mark

 

[tyme2par4]

Kohler and Generac units are both designed to be backup standby generators. It's not unusual to expect them to run for a week straight though, as big snow storms can knock out power that long.
What do you consider continuous? Will this be the only power source for a building that get's used every day? Unless you are seriously far from grid, you would probably be better off hooking to the grid in the long run.
3 phase is for commercial. You probably don't want to go that route, as it probably complicates a lot of things.

 

[shillamus]

The building is remote and getting the grid to it is difficult

LPG will have to be trucked in

Estimating around 6000 kw/hr per month

I have no idea how many lbs fuel per kw/hr

 

[Speedy Petey]

I am investigating installing 200 amp (120/240 single phase) electrical generator service for a garage

Any advice or experience is greatly appreciated.I haven't found a very useful book on the subject yet.

Kohler and Generac make some nice units around 20 kw. LPG seems to be the fuel of choice. Please share any brand names you have had success with.


The Generacs are advertised as backup for grid electric. Are they built to serve continuously?

Is there a benefit to three phase? Is three phase recommended for continuous service?

Thanks All

NONE of the residential units are designed for continuous use. Expect to pay around three times the price for a lower speed (typically 1800rpm) and water cooled unit for any kind of long term continuous use.

You realize, 20kW is roughly 85A at about 65A full load, Right?
20,000 watts divided by 240V = 83.34A

Honestly, from the tone of your post PLEASE consider having a professional come in and give you advice/help in designing this project.

 

[LXCam]

Both units are decent for a residential type shop. Three phase would be preferable if you plan on getting a lot of industrial grade machinery. BUT be advised if at some point you elect to have permanent utility power installed many utility companies will not provide three phase services to a residential service. Also if for any reason this will be a permitted job check the requirements for permitting of the generator. Some states do not allow these as a continuos run application.

 

[md21722]

Also if you depend on power you should get 2 generators. I second the thought of getting some professional opinions. Have you asked the power company to come out?

 

[w1im]

The building is remote and getting the grid to it is difficult

LPG will have to be trucked in

Estimating around 6000 kw/hr per month

I have no idea how many lbs fuel per kw/hr

Some rough calculations show that you could be burning $1500-$2000 in propane each month for 6000kWHrs.

 

[simpler=better]

Personally? I'd find a used military model

 

[shillamus]

Personally? I'd find a used military model

Like This?

http://www.govplanet.com/for-sale/G...86&hitprm=c=13,featuredHeader=true&pnLink=yes

 

[shillamus]

Some rough calculations show that you could be burning $1500-$2000 in propane each month for 6000kWHrs.

Thanks much.. Is Diesel cheaper??

 

[brewchief]

You need to find a generator sales/service company experienced with prime power generation, the needs are considerably different then a backup situation.

You need to know your expected load pretty well, buying too big of a generator will cost you big time in fuel usage.

I've got a friend in Canada that runs a resort and campground off generator power, most of the time he can run everything with a single generator of around 100kw, if he needs more power he can bring on another generator and transfer part of his load over to it. With just the main unit running his diesel fuel usage is around 5 gallons per hour so 120 gallons a day or between 3000-3500 gallons per month. A couple years ago he switched to a more efficient generator and saved about 20k in fuel cost per year. My point is that you need to plan properly and by the most cost effective setup for your use, the upfront cost could be much more to do it right but the operating cost may make it worthwhile.

 

[rockwithjason]

take a look at this spec sheet. notice that prime ratings are lower than standby ratings. take into account the noise and gallons/hour of fuel. carefully plan out your loads and usage and then get back to us.

http://www.multiquip.com/multiquip/DCA36SPXU4F.htm

 

[Rookie2]

Even if you are manufacturing high profit widgets , buy used generators, have a good working and repair knowledge of your generators you are in for a huge electric bill ! You could do it as a weekend home but you will go broke if your not a millionaire on this project.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well the first thing everyone needs to know that u didnt mention and only one person brought up is what are your loads?

Theres a big difference between a couple of power tools and an air conditioned shop with an electric water heater, large air compressor and welder. Also, how many people in the shop?

Unless u have large motor loads or existing 3-phase equipment, then i would stick to single phase...

 

[nadogail]

For long run service, I would look into a Witte or Lister unit, they were designed for continuous running.

 

[slip knot]

As prime power your looking at a signifigant machine. much more robust than a "standby" genset. even these get a derate when setup for prime versus standby. our 750kw gets derated to 600KW when used as prime power.

I have a small farm shed that years ago I could of had purchase power ran for $3k. I had a couple of small onans that were easy enough to set up for power. 20yrs later I'm continually kicking myself in the **** for not running wires back then. When gas was at $4/gal. I was spending $250 a month just to water cows. in the long run pay for the service to be ran. it wont get any cheaper.

 

[w1im]

Thanks much.. Is Diesel cheaper??

A little bit. For 6000KWHrs, you would burn around 520 gallons At $2.35 / gal for diesel, your cost is $1220 per month.

Still a big electric bill.

 

[minytrker]

Like This?

http://www.govplanet.com/for-sale/G...86&hitprm=c=13,featuredHeader=true&pnLink=yes

No, I used those in the Air Force. They are not very economical and are very loud.

 

[G-ManBart]

I have a 20Kw Generac on natural gas at our house, and it's great, but it's not meant for continuous duty the way you're considering. Sure, they're capable of running for extended periods, but that isn't what they're intended for....a few hours to a day or so is more typical. Also, since they're an air cooled machine not intended for continuous duty, the oil/filter change periods are pretty short. My Generac calls for an oil/filter change every 200 hours of use. So, you'd be changing the oil every 8 days.

For continuous duty you're going to be looking at something larger and far more expensive to purchase. I doubt you can find a continuous duty genset big enough for what you're describing for less than about $10K and they're going to eat up quite a bit of fuel each month.

If there's any way you can get commercial power, it's almost always going to be less expensive in the long run.