200a meter socket, main disconnect & panel all in one?

[TimberMan]

I am planning my electrical layout for my barn which will be fed by a dedicated, metered 200a service. For simplicity I am considering going with an all in one box that has the meter socket, main disconnect and full panel all in one. I only hesitate because that would put all my breakers outside exposed to more moisture. Is that a practical concern? Any major cons with going the all-in-one route?

Thanks,

 

[mike93lx]

Lots of the country have their breakers outside. Personally, I don't like it as who wants to have to wait for good weather to do interior electrical work or go outside in a storm to flip a breaker?

But interior panels are what I am used to, that said, my pool panel is outdoors and is doing fine, plus a/c disconnects are outdoors

 

[jblnut]

I have four panels completely outside. Three 200a 8 space and one 200a 40 space. No issues with any of them in 10yrs so far. Running outside to flip a breaker when it’s -25f isn’t pleasant but I’ve only had to do it once so not a big deal.

 

[PCustoms]

I did a meter/main a couple years back on a shed.

IIRC 2 breakers feed the shed, main/passthrough goes to the house. Future shop will feed off an additional breaker.

I had hesitation, but figured screw it these are 3R and as others have said large portions of the country have been doing it this way for years. I do plan to add a little kicker roof to keep snow from sitting on it though.

 

[mm08822]

I personally would not do it for my own installation as I grew up with everything either in a garage or basement. Locating in a moderated environment just seems to make more sense to me if available.

Dust infiltration mixed with high humidity may be a bigger concern than the temps. However, as other posters above have indicated, it is succesful.

 

[jblnut]

I do plan to add a little kicker roof to keep snow from sitting on it though.

I built a roof deal over the two main service panels at my place but they get soaked every time it rains anyway.

I forgot about all the irrigation panels we have outside with zero shelter of any kind over them. One of the setups is running a 75hp pump and has been doing so for over 20yrs with no panel related weather issues.

I agree with others that if you can put it inside you should. Make sure to leave access for additions down the road.

 

[kaymccampbell]

My neighbours had that rig. It would get real hot and sometimes provide a disco show. I moved their panel indoors and it alleviated a lot of problems.

 

[sparky 1971]

I only hesitate because that would put all my breakers outside exposed to more moisture. Is that a practical concern? Any major cons with going the all-in-one route?

Thanks,

The moisture isn't a concern, the panels are designed for that. A deal breaker for me would be the pain in the *** factor of potentially adding a circuit in the future. And, of course, the fact that I am lazy and wouldn't want to have to go outside to reset a breaker, especially in the cold, heat, rain, snow, or shine. There are parts of the country where everything is outside, I've only seen pictures, but can't get my head wrapped around the reasoning for it and even though I've asked why, have never been given a reason outside of "that's the way we do it".

 

[Norcal]

The moisture isn't a concern, the panels are designed for that. A deal breaker for me would be the pain in the *** factor of potentially adding a circuit in the future. And, of course, the fact that I am lazy and wouldn't want to have to go outside to reset a breaker, especially in the cold, heat, rain, snow, or shine. There are parts of the country where everything is outside, I've only seen pictures, but can't get my head wrapped around the reasoning for it and even though I've asked why, have never been given a reason outside of "that's the way we do it".

It's cheap & there are no basements here either.

 

[sparky 1971]

It's cheap & there are no basements here either.

I spent three years wiring houses in Dallas, TX where there weren't any basements and I never saw an exterior panel other than an occasional 500 sq ft Habitat For Humanity house. Not all houses had a garage to put it in either, though most did and that's where the panel was. I won't argue with them being cheap.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Majority of panels in california are meter mains- either surface mounted, semi-flush or flush. Rarely do i see corrosion or water issues in these panels...

 

[jblnut]

Decided to check out my outdoor panels today for funsies. Three were high and dry with only a few cobwebs inside and the one on the west side of the steer barn had some snow blown inside the cover. It was blizzardy today with 40+mph gusts. Nothing inside by the wires but a little on top of the one breaker. No visible corrosion anywhere inside.

 

[micromind]

There are thousands of those around here, I bet that more than 95% of the new subdivision houses built in the last 20 years has one.

Usually they are at the corner of the garage closest to the underground PUCO feed, some are surface mount, some are semi-flush.

They are the cheapest way to go but they are more than slightly difficult to add stuff after they're done. The neutral/ground bus is especially hard to get to.

 

[Bert_]

Sometimes the bottom of the panel rusts out. Dust and dirt builds up, stays wet.

Seen a bunch on hog buildings where the PVC is just floating where the bottom of the panel used to be.

 

[TimberMan]

The moisture isn't a concern, the panels are designed for that. A deal breaker for me would be the pain in the *** factor of potentially adding a circuit in the future. And, of course, the fact that I am lazy and wouldn't want to have to go outside to reset a breaker, especially in the cold, heat, rain, snow, or shine. There are parts of the country where everything is outside, I've only seen pictures, but can't get my head wrapped around the reasoning for it and even though I've asked why, have never been given a reason outside of "that's the way we do it".

What about the outside panel would make it more difficult to add circuits? I assume that inside / outside panels would be the same in that regard. thx.

 

[mike93lx]

What about the outside panel would make it more difficult to add circuits? I assume that inside / outside panels would be the same in that regard. thx.

Getting wire to the panel

 

[TimberMan]

Getting wire to the panel

I still don't understand, sorry.

 

[PCustoms]

I still don't understand, sorry.

The panel is mounted outside and the outside wall is finished

You want to run a new circuit, say 50A 240 for a compressor. Might be easy to pull all the wire inside, but then how do you transition it through the wall to outside? How to you can access inside the panel without destroying the exterior wall?

A panel set in stucco isn't as simple as cutting out a patch of drywall and some repair. A surface mount panel outside is likely going to mean another run of conduit.

 

[TimberMan]

The panel is mounted outside and the outside wall is finished

You want to run a new circuit, say 50A 240 for a compressor. Might be easy to pull all the wire inside, but then how do you transition it through the wall to outside? How to you can access inside the panel without destroying the exterior wall?

A panel set in stucco isn't as simple as cutting out a patch of drywall and some repair. A surface mount panel outside is likely going to mean another run of conduit.

Please bear with me; I’ve never done this before… wouldn’t the new wires go through the hole / knockout that the rest went through?

 

[PCustoms]

Please bear with me; I’ve never done this before… wouldn’t the new wires go through the hole / knockout that the rest went through?

Maybe, maybe not. Could be a massive pita.

My exterior meter/main has 2 circuits entering the structure, as it's primarily an outdoor distribution panel on a remote building. To pull those 2 circuits after the fact I had to cut access into a shear wall and work to get a chase ****** through the exterior siding into the panel. Indoors it would have been 5 minutes.

If this was my house or shop with 40 circuits I would have mounted it inside where I can easily get full access as needed.

YMMV

 

[TimberMan]

Maybe, maybe not. Could be a massive pita.

My exterior meter/main has 2 circuits entering the structure, as it's primarily an outdoor distribution panel on a remote building. To pull those 2 circuits after the fact I had to cut access into a shear wall and work to get a chase ****** through the exterior siding into the panel. Indoors it would have been 5 minutes.

If this was my house or shop with 40 circuits I would have mounted it inside where I can easily get full access as needed.

YMMV

Thx. Maybe the better option would be a meter socket with just a few disconnects on the outside so that I can run power to other buildings, but then the main subpanel for the barn on the inside.

 

[PCustoms]

Thx. Maybe the better option would be a meter socket with just a few disconnects on the outside so that I can run power to other buildings, but then the main subpanel for the barn on the inside.

Yep.

And when you run the numbers odds are the cheapest way to do that is a small meter/main.

 

[TimberMan]

Thx folks. I went with a 200a meter socket / disconnect with 8, 1” breaker spaces outside and I will install a sub panel in the barn.

 

[Dagny]

If animals live inside the panel has to be outside.

 

[PCustoms]

If animals live inside the panel has to be outside.

I'm an animal, I live inside...

 

[TimberMan]

If animals live inside the panel has to be outside.

Yes. My barn is for tractors and equipment

 

[75gmck25]

l think I would locate the meter and the main disconnect on the outside, and then run SER wire to the panel in a central location that makes it convenient to run interior wire. This should reduce the amount of wire you need to run inside the building because you would put the panel near most of the loads. If the meter is within a short distance of the panel and its main breaker (often 5-10 feet), you don't even need a separate main disconnect.

 

[PCustoms]

l think I would locate the meter and the main disconnect on the outside, and then run SER wire to the panel in a central location that makes it convenient to run interior wire. This should reduce the amount of wire you need to run inside the building because you would put the panel near most of the loads.

I believe it was touched in already that a meter/main is likely cheaper (labor and materials) then a meter and a disconnect. Regardless,

Thx folks. I went with a 200a meter socket / disconnect with 8, 1” breaker spaces outside and I will install a sub panel in the barn.

If the meter is within a short distance of the panel and its main breaker (often 5-10 feet), you don't even need a separate main disconnect.

Unless I'm mistaken, 2020 NEC started requiring external disconnect on dwellings. The old 5-10' "rule" for unfused wires was also subject to AHJ interpretation IIRC.

Edit: "rule", meaning not an official requirement/code but something that was frequently quoted as the standard. Around here it was very loosely interpreted.

 

[TimberMan]

I believe it was touched in already that a meter/main is likely cheaper (labor and materials) then a meter and a disconnect. Regardless,







Unless I'm mistaken, 2020 NEC started requiring external disconnect on dwellings. The old 5-10' rule for unfused wires was also subject to AHJ interpretation IIRC.

I am on 2017 code and according to my county I need an external disconnect

 

[Norcal]

I believe it was touched in already that a meter/main is likely cheaper (labor and materials) then a meter and a disconnect. Regardless,


Unless I'm mistaken, 2020 NEC started requiring external disconnect on dwellings. The old 5-10' rule for unfused wires was also subject to AHJ interpretation IIRC.

That length has never been specified by the NEC.

 

[PCustoms]

That length has never been specified by the NEC.

Exactly.

I forgot the actual wording, but around here it was sort of "eh, 10' or so Max"

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The old 5-10' rule for unfused wires was also subject to AHJ interpretation IIRC.

what rule?

 

[PCustoms]

what rule?

SMH....read a few more posts down please

 

[mike93lx]

SMH....read a few more posts down please

Must have code citation!

 

[PCustoms]

Must have code citation!

There isn't one, that was my point!

 

[mike93lx]

There isn't one, that was my point!

Unacceptable