2012 Jeep Wrangler. . . needs new plugs already?

[KPSquared]

Hey guys, need you expert opinion on a recent situation. I am selling my wife's 2012 Jeep JKU. The guy that's buying it wanted to have an inspection done by the dealer where I bought it. I figured, hey, no problem. 62,000 km. . .what could be wrong? (That's about 38,500 miles)

Well, turns out they decided it needs new spark plugs. Seemed odd to need plugs at 62,000 km when the manual says to replace at 156,000km. . . If my plugs are dying in a third the life the manufacturer intended, what the hell is going on in my motor?

So I pulled a plug. . . the only one that MAY have been pulled during the inspection. The other coil packs were way to dirty to have been touched and the other side in buried under intake manifold.

Here's a few pics of the plug in question. NGK Iridium. Maybe the side electrode is burnt? Let me know what you think!

 

[bran1har]

Is what is is, unless your camera and eyes are both lying ha ha. Id just put new plugs and sell it to someone. But I do agree, they should not be that worn, but you can adjust the gap, thats what my cheap *** would tell me to do. But I wouldn't worry, they are not showing signs of lean or rich conditions. Good Luck!

 

[pop pop]

looks well used to me. I've not seen the center electrode that small/tapered when new.

 

[blackz26]

I'm sure mopar knows what they're doing, buy I have never had luck with NGK plugs. Neither my eclipse with a 420a or my Toyota with a 22r. 20,000 and both vehicle made them toast. Champions lasted both vehicles till I sold them.

Interested to see what else people specifically techs have to say

 

[pattenp]

Alberta Canada's cold climate is the problem. The cold winter is hard on engines. If the plugs are the only thing they came up with, be happy and change the plugs.

 

[KPSquared]

Anyone want to share the easiest way to get at the drivers side plugs? It's all buried under the intake. . . guess I got a lot of parts to pull off. . .

 

[shampoop]

They look absolutely fine to me. Only thing I see that may be wrong is if the gap measures way too big.

Probably the tech trying to upsell a service. But either way, replacing the plugs is pretty cheap. Even if the ones in it are fine, if it's the difference between selling it or not definitely worth replacing.

 

[rlitman]

looks well used to me. I've not seen the center electrode that small/tapered when new.

Sounds like you've never seen an iridium plug then. That looks perfectly normal.
A copper plug would never wear down to that shape either.

Only thing I see that may be wrong is if the gap measures way too big.

You think? That year has a high energy spark, and a pretty big gap. I'd check it against the specs before condemning the plug.

 

[jd_1138]

Anyone want to share the easiest way to get at the drivers side plugs? It's all buried under the intake. . . guess I got a lot of parts to pull off. . .

That's why I like 4 cylinder cars. All the spark plugs are staring at you.

There's a great forum for Jeeps and other Chrysler products at allpar.com. They probably have the easiest way to do it somewhere on that site.

 

[KPSquared]

Compared to stock replacement it looks almost identical.

I've conceded defeat for the sake of the sale. $17 each. . . Not gonna lose the sale over $100 worth of spark plugs.

Still might take the old ones in and chat to the dealer.

 

[Mike Miller]

The plug looks normal for one that's been used, if the engine runs smooth and still gets acceptable fuel mileage they don't need to be changed.

 

[Zelatore]

They look absolutely fine to me. Only thing I see that may be wrong is if the gap measures way too big.

Probably the tech trying to upsell a service. But either way, replacing the plugs is pretty cheap. Even if the ones in it are fine, if it's the difference between selling it or not definitely worth replacing.

I'm going with this. I run into this sort of thing from time to time on inspections when selling yachts. Most recent survey had the mechanic recommending $9000 worth of work ranging from regular maintenance (change filters, oil, impellers, etc, coolant, etc) to $2K-ish to pull the aftercoolers apart for servicing. No reason given for that job, just a big ticket. When questioned, the mechanic basically admitted he wrote it up not because of any issue he spotted, but as a preventative based on the age of the motors. In other words, he was looking to make a few extra bucks on a job that wasn't recommended by the engine maker and he had no specific issue to indicate a problem.

But on the Jeep - heck, if all it takes is a set of plugs to make the deal I'd go for it. What's an afternoon and a couple bucks to close a deal?

 

[rockchucker]

I replace my NGK Iridiums every 15-25k miles. 30k miles is the max I would go with the NGK Iridiums. You do have to be careful gapping the Iridiums though. You do not want to scratch off the precious metal. They are *supposed* to be pre-gapped. I have only ever had a couple off out of thousands. I do not gap themby cramming the cheapo round Plug Gapping Tool in them. I use the Ground Strap Bending style. I check them all before ding anything by inserting a Brass Feeler Gauge a few thousandths under what they are supposed to be just to make sure it fits in the gap. Basically trying not to touch either the Ground Strap or the Electrode. If it fits and all of the Plugs are equal they get installed and I don't mess with them. 99% of them are good to go unless the box has been dropped or damaged and in that case I will not buy them.

I run NGK's in ALL of my rigs. They are just about the best Plug on the market today IMHO.

 

[blackz26]

That's why I like 4 cylinder cars. All the spark plugs are staring at you.
.

I know you said car but just have to say this -

NOT on a 2.3 ranger!

As for easiest way, how about going through the gender well with the tires off? That's how I do it on my 94 Jimmy with the vortec. New jeep wranglers still use the I6 right?

 

[Canadian Cowboy]

Looking at just the one plug pictured the center electrode is worn and should be changed out also what is the gap? measure it.
The one plug pictured looks to have a lot of carbon/oil substance that has traveled up/wicked up the spark plug thread area it could be just because of the the close up pic.

CC

 

[scouting]

I'm sure mopar knows what they're doing, buy I have never had luck with NGK plugs. Neither my eclipse with a 420a or my Toyota with a 22r. 20,000 and both vehicle made them toast. Champions lasted both vehicles till I sold them.

Interested to see what else people specifically techs have to say

Odd, I have the best luck with NGK's and horrible luck with champions. I've never seen a dead NGK out of the box, but I've had a few champions that were DOA. However, I've also put more champions into customer vehicles, so statistical bias and all that goodness comes into play. My personal rigs get NGK, and I have had nothing but good experiences with them.

 

[KPSquared]

I know you said car but just have to say this -

NOT on a 2.3 ranger!

As for easiest way, how about going through the gender well with the tires off? That's how I do it on my 94 Jimmy with the vortec. New jeep wranglers still use the I6 right?

Wranglers haven't ran an I6 for at least 6 years. 3.6 V6 as of 2012 and 3.8 v6 since 2007.

I'm into it now. Had to pull the intake manifold off the engine to get at the left bank. Pain in the ars. I'll pick up the new plugs in the morning. No one stocks them except the stealership.


PS . . .it's **** like this why I avoid dealers with my life.

 

[Zelatore]

I know you said car but just have to say this -

NOT on a 2.3 ranger!

As for easiest way, how about going through the gender well with the tires off? That's how I do it on my 94 Jimmy with the vortec. New jeep wranglers still use the I6 right?

Not sure if this was a joke, but no - Wranglers haven't used the I6 in ages. Switched to the minivan 3.8 V6 with the JK. Then to the corporate 3.6 V6 in '12.

 

[nehog]

The plug looks normal for one that's been used, if the engine runs smooth and still gets acceptable fuel mileage they don't need to be changed.

That's the right answer. The plug looks normal, doesn't seem excessively worn or damaged. Fuel mix seems good too--plug is clean considering it has those miles (KM) on it.

Sure you can change them if you want, that won't hurt anything, or just run them until you hit that mileage (KMage) that the book says to change them.

 

[mike_81]

uhh, shouldnt these have been covered under warranty? i know it ends at 60k but at 62k the plugs are toast (according to the dealer anyways, and they're only 1/3 their way through a normal service life).

argue w/ the dealer on warranty.

 

[kamesama980]

OP: as mentioned, it's one of those blanket statements along with a game of telephone...the tech actually said (not having found anything actually wrong and needing to critique something) you *might* change the plugs to be proactive. The service writer wrote down "suggest changing spark plugs". The buyer who paid for the inspection said "they said the plugs must be changed"

I'm sure mopar knows what they're doing, buy I have never had luck with NGK plugs. Neither my eclipse with a 420a or my Toyota with a 22r. 20,000 and both vehicle made them toast. Champions lasted both vehicles till I sold them.

Interested to see what else people specifically techs have to say

Then you, my friend, are the exception. I've run NGKs in everything, toyota cars and trucks ('90 w/ 22re) and suzuki bikes. (I know...wide range of ownership) and that's what everyone agrees on on the forums and that I've talked to in person. Jap plugs for Jap engines NGK or Desno. I've had half a dozen toyotas in 10 years, worked in a shop for 2.5 and dealer for a few months while in school, BAS in auto tech. only car I've had eat plugs was my '88 cressida because it had other issues. several other issues.

I know you said car but just have to say this -

NOT on a 2.3 ranger!

As for easiest way, how about going through the gender well with the tires off? That's how I do it on my 94 Jimmy with the vortec. New jeep wranglers still use the I6 right?

I had a 96 ranger with that turd of an engine....I changed half the plugs, spent half a day trying to change the rest, then said good 'nuff. My 87 S10 with the 90 hp 2.5l with a 4 speed manual had better acceleration, higher top speed, and took more abuse

 

[ihateimacs]

That plug looks fine. Just like it should with normal wear, it should be rated for 100k miles. I have always had good luck with NGK plugs. I run them in all of my dirtbikes and 4 wheelers, as well as my toyota daily driver and a turbo mustang. I do typically try to stick with OE plugs when readily available AND cost effective.

 

[Heavy Metal Doctor]

OP: as mentioned, it's one of those blanket statements along with a game of telephone...the tech actually said (not having found anything actually wrong and needing to critique something) you *might* change the plugs to be proactive. The service writer wrote down "suggest changing spark plugs". The buyer who paid for the inspection said "they said the plugs must be changed"



Then you, my friend, are the exception. I've run NGKs in everything, toyota cars and trucks ('90 w/ 22re) and suzuki bikes. (I know...wide range of ownership) and that's what everyone agrees on on the forums and that I've talked to in person. Jap plugs for Jap engines NGK or Desno. I've had half a dozen toyotas in 10 years, worked in a shop for 2.5 and dealer for a few months while in school, BAS in auto tech. only car I've had eat plugs was my '88 cressida because it had other issues. several other issues.

That plug looks fine. Just like it should with normal wear, it should be rated for 100k miles. I have always had good luck with NGK plugs. I run them in all of my dirtbikes and 4 wheelers, as well as my toyota daily driver and a turbo mustang. I do typically try to stick with OE plugs when readily available AND cost effective.

I agree with these guys - I have many 100's of thousands of miles on a few Nissan's all with NGK's since the mid-90's with good results.
I only switched to one running Denso Iridium plugs in the 09 Nissan I got with 8 miles on it when I bought it - changed the plugs at 110k or so miles a couple months back as a preventative and they looked about the same as the OP's pic -- the tip / gap on the new ones I took out of the package didn't look much different (spec'd pretty wide setting anyway, if IRRC) - telling me not much "wear" on them. Still probably a good idea to change with over 100K, but they sure still looked plenty serviceable.....

 

[KPSquared]

OP: as mentioned, it's one of those blanket statements along with a game of telephone...the tech actually said (not having found anything actually wrong and needing to critique something) you *might* change the plugs to be proactive. The service writer wrote down "suggest changing spark plugs". The buyer who paid for the inspection said "they said the plugs must be changed"

The buyer is from out of town so the inspection was done at the dealer in my town, where I purchased the Jeep. I picked up the forms and they state clearly, "REPLACE SPARK PLUGS".

After I pulled the plugs, I went back into the dealer this morning and gave them a "What the hell...?". The service manager kind of back pedaled, then went and talked to the "mechanic" in the back. Came back with, "Well, they were at 50% so we "suggest" you change them." I replied, "so, you mean they wouldn't "have" to be changed until around 120,000 km?" She said yes. Then just made excuses and fed me BS until I got irritated and left.

I despise that dealer. I have since the first time I had the Jeep in for service.

Either way, new plugs are in, buyer is happy, and now I'll just make sure everyone in the relatively small town I live in knows exactly what kind of business they run. I had been warned by at least one friend about some shady practices going on there, but now that I've got to experience it first hand, I'll spread the word. Nothing like a facebook and twitter smear campaign to boost customer awareness. . .

Seriously though, I'm over it. I'll just move on and let the new guy enjoy his new plugs.

Thanks for the opinions guys!