2020 NEC changes

[Terry D]

Terry>>>
Do you follow the St. Louis County amendments to the International Building (Electrical) Code or the NEC?
It seems that you do some things differently (ie:"That's just how it's done here") than some of us.

I agree, after being on this forum for a while now, I do realize some things are different here. Untill a little while ago, there was no state license. St Louis County was the standard for the state. The City of St Louis is a separate license, the City was always behind the county is code adoptions. Since John Stacy, the Chief electrical inspector for the City, has retired, the new guy has been "shaking things up downtown" The City is now in the 2017 code, while the County is in the 2014. Rick Hill is the chief electrical inspector for the County. These guys make the rules. As far as amendments, yeah there are times when they adopt the newer code cycle and we will get a letter with the amendments. They only have changed to a newer code 2 times since I've been licensed. I believe they were in the 1999 when I took my test in 2002, then went to the 2008 at one point, now with in the last six months they went to the 2014. I guess what Im trying to say, you just learn over the years what is acceptable and what is not. You might be able to do it one way in the City, but not in the county. Or vice versa. the Chief electrical inspectors send out a lot of emails with changes. Got one a few months ago that we are now longer allowed to modify knob and tube wiring in anyway. It is common here for relators to tell a homeowner their home will sell better if all knob and tube is removed just where you can see it in the basement, so we go in remove all of it and refeed it with romex. Which makes no sense, because it is still in the walls and ceilings. Were not allowed to do that anymore, you would have to remove it all and rewire. We also are only allowed to have one romex per hole. There is a list of things I could give you where we do things probably a little different. As for your question, its the NEC

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Ok but do they have written amendments?

Also, while “things may be done a little different around there” the inspector cannot ask you to do something that isnt code.

 

[walrus]

Got update class in May, chances are good it gets postponed. Not sure what state is going to do about that. Are they going allow us to be late on the update or I guess I could do a home study course but rather not. Supposed to have the class before State adopts 2020 code which is generally in summer, talk of not adopting it until late fall now

 

[Terry D]

Ok but do they have written amendments?

Also, while “things may be done a little different around there” the inspector cannot ask you to do something that isnt code.

You don't understand, when the 2008 code was adopted, there was amendments. We were not required to install TR receptacles and AFCI protection was only required in the bedrooms. As far as the 2014 goes, other than a few definition additions, the rest of the code has been adopted. As I explained before, the inspectors are following the rules from the chief electrical inspector. He is part of the AHJ. You are trying to make it sound that each individual inspector is running around with his own set of rules, and that is not true. The AHJ makes the rules as far as if it is allowed to be installed stricter than the code, or not as strict. You can always install something more stricter than the code requires. Its not a how to book, it is the bare minimum requirements for electrical installations. So when you say I should go up against them, who are you talking about, the AHJ, yeah right. The City of St. Louis, about 2 or 3 years ago sent out a email that derated neutrals were no longer accepted in services or sub panels. Since then, the County has followed suit. Heck, you cant even buy SEU or SER here with a undersized neutral. At first the supply houses carried both and it was getting mixed up, and jobs were getting failed. There is no one to go up against, the job just wont pass until corrected. That is just one of the little things that you just know not to do. This is not a bad place to be a contractor. I have no problems with any inspector. I know what they want to see before they get there. I wired a house about a hour or so from here a few years ago, in Franklin County. You didn't have to have a license, but you had to pass a inspection. They give you a sheet of their requirements. Couple of the things were, No SEU, all services has to be in pipe. And dishwashers and disposals have to be on separate dedicated 20 amp circuits. You don't try to argue it , you just do it. I would like to find out more about a state that has a state wide license from the beginning, because I think that is the difference here. We just started a state wide license, but I don't believe its like the rest. You don't even have to have it, ive yet to get mine. I sure do wish there was more licensed electrician on here from my area.

 

[Innovate1]

In talking to the St. Louis county electrical office about 4 months ago I was told they weren't requiring TR and AFCI in additional locations even though it was in the latest adopted code. St. Louis is a mess as far as code and contractors goes. Not electrical but for structural I was told to have some documents for non-standard things (foam that meets smoke and flame spread) on site for inspections. I asked why because the exact material was called out on the plans and approved. They said "yes, the inspector can fail it because our office is not infallible and may make a mistake" approving the plans. How can something on approved plans be failed when meeting exactly what's on the plans. Part of why we aren't building there.

 

[Terry D]

In talking to the St. Louis county electrical office about 4 months ago I was told they weren't requiring TR and AFCI in additional locations even though it was in the latest adopted code. St. Louis is a mess as far as code and contractors goes. Not electrical but for structural I was told to have some documents for non-standard things (foam that meets smoke and flame spread) on site for inspections. I asked why because the exact material was called out on the plans and approved. They said "yes, the inspector can fail it because our office is not infallible and may make a mistake" approving the plans. How can something on approved plans be failed when meeting exactly what's on the plans. Part of why we aren't building there.

Last October they adopted the 2014. They do require them now. Before last October they were in the 2008, even though that code edition did require them, St Louis County did not


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