2021 Garage Sale Thread

[bmwrd0]

I am going to give two examples of why that isn't quite true;

1.) At one time the going rate for Makarov pistols was quite high as they were mostly Vietnam-era bring-backs, with Blue Book values around a thousand dollars or so. But, that changed around 1989.
2.) As a bibliophile, I used to have a library of books containing values based on what various books had sold for. Speaking to a philologist, Rileysan, stamp collecting also had such a library. Those values listed changed almost overnight in the late nineties.

Now, both those price drops come out of a set of major historical events taking place; the fall of the Berlin Wall, and thus East Germany ending communism and who then unloaded their firearm stocks, and the adoption of the internet in business, allowing sales of books to be handled by the lowest bidder and customers of stamps to be able to price compare across markets. Before those events took place, those items and others like them were worth one amount, and then afterward a whole different amount.

 

[LesserSon]

Subjectivity

When my dad was a young man, he bought a JC Higgins shotgun from a neighbor. A few months later, the neighbor asked to buy it back.
No.
He offered more than my dad had paid.
No.
This went on for years, eventually just a ritual they had. Now, my dad is an old man, the neighbor is long gone, and I have the shotgun. Just a Sears-branded 12ga pump in need of a little work - it hasn’t been fired in 35 years.
My dad tells this story occasionally, but can’t explain why the neighbor wanted it back, nor why he wouldn’t agree.
If it had an objective value, wouldn’t my dad have happily liquidated it for that, or in any case, some figure more than he paid?
I think it has to do with money itself: when he bought it, he had little money - the gun was proportionately a big purchase, and he was proud of it, despite its pedestrian quality. Later, earning a steadier, higher income, the small markup he was offered seemed even smaller, not worth the effort of sourcing a new gun. (My dad has never been a trade-up guy.)

It isn’t just that the value of a given object is subjective (as I asserted earlier), but that other circumstances of the sale, and even the value of the money itself (how much of it we have, whether we expect to have more or less available at another time, how much we expect to need it before the next paycheck) are also subjective.

 

[saukit]

As many here have pointed out, there is no right or wrong answer to the question of what is an appropriate price to pay for any given object. And its corollary; what is an appropriate method to achieve this price. And in the end, it comes down to you, and what you are OK within your own personal ethics.

As LS alluded to, the value of any given object is determined by a buyer and seller at a given point in time. Now, all of those things might change at any point, but there is only now. Hindsight is 20/20, and no one knows what the future might hold.

So, at the end of the day, do you feel that what you did was OK? No one else can answer that.

I am torn to be honest. On one hand I feel good that I only took as much as I did. The other part of me wishes I had just taken the entire top box for $20! I have no doubt I could have gotten away with that but I don't think I'd feel very good about myself. After doing a little more research on some of the stuff I grabbed, it's worth money but nothing's exorbitantly valuable. I also don't know how much of it I'll sell, I'll probably keep a fair chunk of it for my own use.

For the record this was not a little old lady situation but someone who was cleaning out her mom's house. I did mention that the tools in the shed had value but she expressed no interest in learning more about what they might be worth. So I don't think I acted dishonorably but I certainly took advantage of the situation.

I appreciate all the the responses and feedback from everyone on this, I think I'll be better prepared to handle things like this in the future if I'm lucky enough to come across another similar situation. And for sure I won't show up with only $20 in my pocket!

 

[bmwrd0]

As I said, hindsight is 20/20. We all have had sales that we wished we had gotten there earlier, or had more money on us, or we wonder why we bought X when we should have bought Y, or why we tried to bargain down a trinket when we have the case on hand. That is just how it goes.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I am going to give two examples of why that isn't quite true;

I thought it would go without saying that I wasn't suggesting that 'going rates' never fluctuate or are stable forever. I can give you numerous examples staying within the tools hobby itself. Five years ago you couldn't buy a Fairmount or Barcalo-Buffalo 723 (tiniest wrench in the WWII jeep toolkit) in an informed market for less than $100. Now I'm happy to get $50 for one. But for several years there, $100 to $125 was clearly the going rate. But neither that change, or seminal changes in pistols, books, and stamps, (or gold or Queen Anne's chairs etc etc), demonstrates that - at one time, for weeks or months and, in many cases, for years - there was no such thing as a market value or a going rate for a certain pistol, or a certain book, or a certain stamp relative to other pistols, other books, and other stamps.

The idea that every exchange is made in a subjective vacuum, that value is not informed by the relative scarcity and popularity of a tool (supply and demand), and not informed by other exchanges of that tool relative to the exchanges of other tools, is just not true. Buyers, sellers, and traders have an idea of value, and because many of those exchanges are socialized or shared, either by places like eBay, or right here, that value is more or less known. It will change over time. But it is more or less known and does not fluctuate daily.

Nobody is trading tools here (an informed market) without some idea of relative value. If they are, I want to be the one to trade with them!

Subjectivity

Your story is anecdotal, LS. It has no bearing on what other JC Higgins shotguns of that same make and year were selling for then or now or at junctures in between in other exchanges. That its value on the market seems subjective to you because your father refused to sell back to your neighbor at a markup does not disprove the idea of a market value for JC Higgins shotguns. Only that your dad may have been ignoring it.

All kinds of exchanges happen well below and well above going rates. That doesn't mean there aren't going rates. Again, it's why most collectors like to buy in an uninformed market and sell in an informed market. If I wanted to keep track of them the easy way I would pay WorthPoint their yearly fee and see the last 10 or 50 or 100 sales in a nice table and graph format. But the hard way (eBay Sold Listings, and just paying attention down on the VB) works fine for me.

The vintage tools market doesn't obviate exchanges that take place outside of it or in spite of it; but by the same token, exchanges that take place outside of the vintage tools market don't obviate the market.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

TL;DR version: If all value is always subjective, the two most common words on this thread ("You" and "****") to express the purchase of something well below its perceived actual value would be meaningless.

 

[Outlawmws]

It goes both ways and I think LS nailed it -- a thing is worth what one person is willing to sell for, and another is willing to pay.

A couple of months ago I went to a "Living" estate sale and got some good deals. The next day I went back and the lady admitted someone had "Clued her In" on what things were worth on Eprey, and subsequently prices were quadruple or more.

Bottom Line was day one she had a buyer, and day two she didn't. If I'm willing to pay Eprey prices at a yard sale where they simply don't have the audience exposure of Eprey, or even Craig's List, why bother going? I could let my fingers do the walking and be done, if poorer...

But part of the hunt IS the hunt, and part of the hunt IS getting a much better price than someone else's conception of "market price". Market price INCLUDES the "Market" you are in...

That's basic capitalism... Food in the farmers field can be bought cheap. Buy it there and transport it to where people are willing to pay more and you make money. buy it at a supermarket and try to sell at the farmers fields and you will go broke...

This hobby is no different...

 

[ViceRoy2030]

$0.06/round, couldn't pass them up

 

[Private Lugnutz]

a thing is worth what one person is willing to sell for, and another is willing to pay.

In that one exchange, to those two people, of course. If the same thing is regularly selling for 10x that price, but the seller (and perhaps even the buyer) is simply not aware of it, are you going to insist that the thing's real value is subjective? That it doesn't have a going rate that is 10x higher? One exchange for less has no affect on that. Usually, neither do spikes in prices. When enough spikes happen, the going rate goes up.

I'm perplexed by the motivation to even attempt to dismiss the idea that things, including tools (or bullets!), have relative values and going rates. Without an idea of that, we'd never have an idea of a bargain. Again, that's the very premise of the most common You ****. If it's that great of a deal, and everyone recognizes that it's a bargain, by definition, a community sense of known value has been undeniably pronounced, and someone let it go for a lot less than that undeniably known value.

But, as I said, interesting subtopic, and I will stop there at the 'agree to disagree' point.

 

[d42jeep]

I go to a lot of various kinds of sales. In your situation, you made a choice about what was fair to both you and the seller. I never go to sales with less than $100.00 in my (or my Wife’s) pocket so I’ve rarely had to make that choice. I’ve developed kind of a philosophy about pricing. On a given weekend I might go to a sale where prices are as low as your situation, but the following day find some tools I want at a sale with prices a little higher than I customarily would pay. I’ve come to the conclusion that both pricing situations balance out and don’t stress out about it as much as I used to.
-Don

 

[Old Radar]

Okay! I think we can safely call that one. Someone please note the time.

I've been out of the country for a couple of weeks so I've been having withdrawal symptoms. I had a leisurely breakfast on Sunday because there are almost never any worthwhile sales in my area then, but afterwards, I thought, what the heck--just check to make sure--and low and behold, there were two (2!) that claimed tools. Granted, they were on their last day, so no telling what was still left...

The first was picked clean of anything I was interested in except the Duro-Chrome 1033-C DOE for $1



The second sale still had some interesting things left and was 75% off.
The carry box was listed at $20 with contents--about half of which was crapola. Then I noticed the tray from the box on the other side of the shop was sticker priced $15 with nothing but sawdust and scrap metal in it. I pointed out to the young attendant that the tray belonged with the box. He was initially concerned that the contents justified the $15 price until I told him I was not at all interested in the contents. He said pour the stuff in a cardboard box and i could have the tray as part of the tool box. Done. Out the door for $5.

The carry box is in great shape, including the corner reinforcements, but has no makers marks whatsoever.



The threading tools are all from Greenfield Tap & Die Corporation (/G\T/D\). All are from their OK line stamped with Patent date Dec 31, 1912. All but the far right die are stamped U.S.S. It never occurred to me to check the fit of the loose end of the handle, but when I got it home I was disappointed to find the threads were too large. I called the estate sale company and they said I could come the next day to swap it out if the correct size was still there. Luckily it was and I also picked up a GTD No. 6 tap handle--free!



The little Billings & Spencer 1334 S.A.E DOE is well stamped.



The small lock clamped to the box handle is one I've never seen, a Wise-Lock concentric tube padlock. Sadly, no key was found on my return journey, so unless our resident lock expert, Jeff Moss, can shed some light on how to unlock it, I'll have to cut it off. It has the number '60' cast into the side along with the patent number 1814356. Solomon Wise received the patent on 14 July 1931.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Cool shape. It was unwise of the PO to lose the ley.

 

[Old Radar]

I'll have to use your own term on that one--Snerk!

 

[LesserSon]

'agree to disagree'

+1
I think it is a fudamental a divide

 

[Username already in use]

I picked up a few things at the flea on Sunday. Perhaps the most notable being the Atlas w68 x-y milling vise. At $35, I wasn’t going to leave it behind.
Also a midget Thorsen set, Justrite Safety Can, and Blackhawk freewheeling 1/2” ratchet. Along with a handful of odds and ends.

 

[LesserSon]

unless…I'll have to cut it off.

The lock, or the handle?
[an excellent demonstration of subjective value…oops! looks like I already fell off the wagon]
Seriously, can’t you put a strut spring compressor or adequate substitute on the handle enough to pop an end out of the hole, then slip the undamaged lock off, and reposition and straighten the handle? It is just a steel wire, after all.

 

[jeffmoss26]

Solomon Wise was from here in Cleveland! His locks were later made by Ferro and my friend has a beautiful display of antique Wise locks. Let me see what I can find out.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

oops! looks like I already fell off the wagon

'Tsokay. I'll even it up...

$0.06/round, couldn't pass them up

Who would? Hard to even find, let alone at 2012 prices! Prices of $0.09, $0.10, and $0.11 per .22LR round are a lot more common -- and those are twice the historical average!

 

[bmwrd0]

Agree to disagree?

What! No one in the history of the innertubes has ever done that! I won't allow it in my thread.

And speaking of threads, no one has sent me lists of who they think were either picker of the year, or potential thread hosts.

I am waiting...

 

[Old Radar]

Seriously, can’t you put a strut spring compressor or adequate substitute on the handle enough to pop an end out of the hole, then slip the undamaged lock off, and reposition and straighten the handle? It is just a steel wire, after all.

An undamaged but shackled lock without a key is still just a paperweight--and in the digital age, who needs a paperweight?

 

[d42jeep]

The carry box was listed at $20 with contents--about half of which was crapola. Then I noticed the tray from the box on the other side of the shop was sticker priced $15 with nothing but sawdust and scrap metal in it. I pointed out to the young attendant that the tray belonged with the box. He was initially concerned that the contents justified the $15 price until I told him I was not at all interested in the contents. He said pour the stuff in a cardboard box and i could have the tray as part of the tool box. Done. Out the door for $5.

The carry box is in great shape, including the corner reinforcements, but has no makers marks whatsoever.




Based on the shape of the handle on the tray, the carry box could well be a Union GMTK box. An interior view showing the tray supports would be informative. The Union boxes have vertical tray supports. My Union box and tray is housing part of the Barcalo shrine.
-Don

 

[LesserSon]

An undamaged but shackled lock without a key is still just a paperweight--and in the digital age, who needs a paperweight?

Joke? I can’t tell.
Paperweights are collectible, though not my thing. The retired teacher who used to live next door had dozens in the shape of apples, gifts from former students. Hell, paper is collectible. And locks.
Your lock - your choice, I suppose. But since it does not interfere with the functionality of the box, removing it seems more a symbolic act, than a practical one. I already provided a fourth, nondestructive, option.
Even if Jeff doesn’t come up with a key solution, I think the lock probably has redeemable value in an “informed” market. I seem unable to force “no key” into the search, but eBay (“sold” filter) prices indicate $10-30 for Wise concentric tube locks with key. At minimum, the lock is of interest to lock-picking hobbyists.
EDIT
Here is a video of one picked pretty quickly, with nice verbal analysis, so there’s a fifth option.

 

[Old Radar]

Don--My box has vertical tray supports exactly like yours. Thanks for the ID!

LS--Thanks for the video link. I'll give that a shot before doing anything rash!

 

[unkqty]

Okay! I think we can safely call that one. Someone please note the time.

I've been out of the country for a couple of weeks so I've been having withdrawal symptoms. I had a leisurely breakfast on Sunday because there are almost never any worthwhile sales in my area then, but afterwards, I thought, what the heck--just check to make sure--and low and behold, there were two (2!) that claimed tools. Granted, they were on their last day, so no telling what was still left...

The first was picked clean of anything I was interested in except the Duro-Chrome 1033-C DOE for $1



The second sale still had some interesting things left and was 75% off.
The carry box was listed at $20 with contents--about half of which was crapola. Then I noticed the tray from the box on the other side of the shop was sticker priced $15 with nothing but sawdust and scrap metal in it. I pointed out to the young attendant that the tray belonged with the box. He was initially concerned that the contents justified the $15 price until I told him I was not at all interested in the contents. He said pour the stuff in a cardboard box and i could have the tray as part of the tool box. Done. Out the door for $5.

The carry box is in great shape, including the corner reinforcements, but has no makers marks whatsoever.



The threading tools are all from Greenfield Tap & Die Corporation (/G\T/D\). All are from their OK line stamped with Patent date Dec 31, 1912. All but the far right die are stamped U.S.S. It never occurred to me to check the fit of the loose end of the handle, but when I got it home I was disappointed to find the threads were too large. I called the estate sale company and they said I could come the next day to swap it out if the correct size was still there. Luckily it was and I also picked up a GTD No. 6 tap handle--free!



The little Billings & Spencer 1334 S.A.E DOE is well stamped.



The small lock clamped to the box handle is one I've never seen, a Wise-Lock concentric tube padlock. Sadly, no key was found on my return journey, so unless our resident lock expert, Jeff Moss, can shed some light on how to unlock it, I'll have to cut it off. It has the number '60' cast into the side along with the patent number 1814356. Solomon Wise received the patent on 14 July 1931.

lock is a "push key" design.
web search for "wise push key."
please do not cut it.
(thank my brother the locksmith for i.d.)

 

[Private Lugnutz]

no one has sent me lists of who they think were either picker of the year, or potential thread hosts.

I'm on page 35. The new software is not helping. In the old system, you could click on the thread and it would compile the participation by username and number of posts and the number of posts total was hyperlinked. So, if you clicked on a total (say, just for example, Outlawmws 1,397 posts) ), you would be taken to all of just Outlaw's posts. It was easy to go through the top 10 posters, then the next 10, and so forth, and get a pretty good idea of each participant's year. Going through page by page has been interesting, but laborious.

 

[bmwrd0]

Yeah, I am doing the same thing Lugz. And this is why I am starting early in trying to get this done. I have some ideas but want to keep the whole shebang democratic and let participants be active in the process.

 

[RTM]

You can cheat a little by doing a Search This Thread by Member, and see things like Lugz has 18 pages, as does our host, bmwrd0. Outlawmws is slacking with only 16 pages. Might help you get to a top 10 a bit faster. You could also add a search term, like our (mixed) favorite word, and a username or shortened to see who got a lot of low pressure calls, but there are too many choices there.

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Fred gets a **** for that haul!

Yep, Fred definitely ***** especially on those machinists tools for $35!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I have some ideas but want to keep the whole shebang democratic and let participants be active in the process.

Absolutely. Good idea to take a collective pulse for the final list of nominees that we will vote on.

Probably not a bad time to remind people that former hosts (jeffmoss26, maddawg308, Outlawmws, nine4gmc, jakemac, 3baygarage, me, BlueBomber, LesserSon, and you) have been disqualified to be hosts again, and similarly, that former POY's (tin medic, me, and Outlawmws) are disqualified from winning POY again. So we don't turn into an insular Old Boys Club running the show and giving each other trophies!

Note, however, that former hosts who have not been POY's are very, very eligible for POY!

I just got through the whole thread.

Wow. I will reserve my PM to you with my recommended nominees for a few more weeks.

But I have to say, without spoiling any truly end of year public comments more appropriate for December, or stealing any of your Host Wrap-Up thunder, it was definitely the Year of the Book! We've always had books, but never has there been a year with so many.

Also, without a trace of ****-kissing, I have to say that you had a stellar year, Beemer. Seriously. Not only in quantity and consistency, but some killer finds. Following up the Morris chair from last year with a Mission rocking chair and the Art Deco secretary this year was huge. And that was just gravy on all the meaty hauls of tools and boxes and chests and books. I know you will probably take yourself out of the running, (which seems especially cruel after having a killer year last year, too!), as I did, and as BB and LS did following me, but in all genuine seriousness, you would have been one of my top choices.

Thankfully, there are some other well-deserving choices...except for RTM, who I just scratched from my list for publicizing my blowhardiness!

and see things like Lugz has 18 pages,

 

[Old Radar]

Getting tantalizingly close, but can't seem to get the final pin to fall in place.

I've got it lubed up with graphite and will endeavor to persevere...

 

[LesserSon]

Maybe we’ll need TWO “Picker” of the Year awards?

 

[txlonghorn1989]

Uaiu You **** on the Atlas X-Y milling vise!

OR Who made the box? You **** getting that for $5! Ok, just saw Don's ID on the box. Nice find! One of these days I'm gonna show up in SA for some estate sales.

 

[Old Radar]

Ta-Da!! Perseverance paid off. Thanks again to LS for the link to the how-to video! I had a lot more trouble than that guy.

Now I'll have to find or fabricate a key. The tubes seem to step down with the center being the deepest so I'll need something like an inverted step pyramid.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Ta-Da!!

Clap clap clap!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I was feeling cavalier, so I spiffed up the bike today (careful wash, then scrubbed some rust off, oiled the heck out of it, wiped it down, then polished), lubed up the chain, sprayed some oil in the oil port in the rear hub (so cute with its own little rubber flippie stopper, though I am sure proper procedure would be to disassemble and clean out the old grease, I'm going with the oil spritz for now), did a function (shifter) and safety (brakes, air) check, adjusted the seat, found a little screw for a fender bracket that was missing one, and, after a false start (the friggin' kickstand gave me fits - either rubbing on the spokes or the pedal, until I finally got it into the only position it will do neither), took it for a decent spin around town. No squeaks. A slight rattle somewhere in the back. Rides nice! The only thing I will have to get used to is really getting only my toes on the pedals, because the front fender was rubbing against my shoes on tight turns with midfoot pedal placement.

One thing I noticed while working on it more closely is how many COO markings are on this bicycle. They're everywhere. Even the reflectors are original, and MADE IN ENGLAND.

 

[steaks&anvils]

Ta-Da!! Perseverance paid off. Thanks again to LS for the link to the how-to video! I had a lot more trouble than that guy.

Now I'll have to find or fabricate a key. The tubes seem to step down with the center being the deepest so I'll need something like an inverted step pyramid.

Good job!

Use "unkqty" (post #4505) suggestion for a web search (turn on image view), lots of examples of the keys:

 

[ChefRex]

I was feeling cavalier, so I spiffed up the bike today (careful wash, then scrubbed some rust off, oiled the heck out of it, wiped it down, then polished), lubed up the chain, sprayed some oil in the oil port in the rear hub (so cute with its own little rubber flippie stopper, though I am sure proper procedure would be to disassemble and clean out the old grease, I'm going with the oil spritz for now), did a function (shifter) and safety (brakes, air) check, adjusted the seat, found a little screw for a fender bracket that was missing one, and, after a false start (the friggin' kickstand gave me fits - either rubbing on the spokes or the pedal, until I finally got it into the only position it will do neither), took it for a decent spin around town. No squeaks. A slight rattle somewhere in the back. Rides nice! The only thing I will have to get used to is really getting only my toes on the pedals, because the front fender was rubbing against my shoes on tight turns with midfoot pedal placement.

One thing I noticed while working on it more closely is how many COO markings are on this bicycle. They're everywhere. Even the reflectors are original, and MADE IN ENGLAND.

She's looking good! Shouldn't be hard to find you if you're out and about.

 

[3baygarage]

That bike looks great. I have to say, a sweet bargain Lugz.

Username-nice find in the bullet handle.


Tonight I was looking over my shoulder all the way home because it felt like I had just robbed the pawn shop.

I was on the way to one of my usual pawn stops and the parking lot was full. You know, guys getting off work and huge work vehicles. I pulled in the lot and waved to the manager who was outside, and went on my merry way. Good thing I did!

Decided to check another pawn I don’t frequent as often. As luck would have it, a fresh big bin of mixed tools. Almost never happens. The first thing I noticed were the breaker bars and nice big wrenches. Mostly HF Pittsburgh and import socketry though.

I spotted a greasy Leatherman Supertool in the sockets and wrenches. No way this will be cheap. Hmmm, how much would they charge today? Manager tells me all loose tools $1. He didn’t bat an eye on my pile as he cashed me out. I went back and picked the pliers, sockets, and adjustable and the girl working charged me the same.

Along with the Leatherman, wound up with a large Channellock and 15 inch import adjustable. An Armstrong and 3 nice Bonney dbe’s. Bonney and looks like an unmarked S-K breaker bar. Craftsman, Blue Point, and Snap On combos. 2 Large Gearwrench allen sockets, S-K Wayne 3/4 flex, and a couple Proto pieces.

 

[Outlawmws]

Getting tantalizingly close, but can't seem to get the final pin to fall in place.

I've got it lubed up with graphite and will endeavor to persevere...

I was about to say "just pick the darn thing!"

 

[Outlawmws]

Ta-Da!! Perseverance paid off. Thanks again to LS for the link to the how-to video! I had a lot more trouble than that guy.

Now I'll have to find or fabricate a key. The tubes seem to step down with the center being the deepest so I'll need something like an inverted step pyramid.

See I SHOULD have kept reading!