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21' clearspan builtup beam

burleymike

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My garage has a rafter roof, the ceiling joists are 2x4x21 24" OC. There are no purlins or knee walls in the attic.

The garage is 51 years old and sometime in the 1960s the previous owenrs installed 1/2" sheetrock on the ceiling and then blew 10" of fiberglass on top.

As you can imagine the ceiling is sagging about 6". I am thinking about building a builtup beam to span 21' across the center to support this ceiling.

The attic is very cramped and with all the insulation it will never be used for any storage.

Does 3 2x10x21 with 1/2" plywood sandwiched in the center and polyurethane glue sound like it will work. I am not great at calculating this stuff so if I am way off please tell me.

Thanks in advance
 
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Ironcrow

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Think tension. The lower element of your built up beam, that 2x4 with three pieces butted together, has to be strong in tension. That is, if you separated it from the beam, would you be comfortable dangling it out a third story window and hanging your car from it? I'd recommend something along the lines of lap seams, with considerable overlap. Like double up the 2x4 and overlap the seams 4 feet.
 
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burleymike

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Thanks for the replies guys. I was thinking about the 10' span for those 2x4s as well. One idea I have toyed with is to build 2 beams. Though at this point anything will be better than what is there.

Ironcrow: If I understand what you are saying correctly I should use 2x10x16 so an entire 2x10 does not span from one end of the garage to the other? That is how the built up beam in my basement is done. Of course I don't know if the same carpenter that built the garage did the rest of the house:eek:

What you are saying makes sense to me, and my back hurts so shorter spans will be lighter to assemble.

Thanks again for the replies.
Mike
 

jgira12

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I built a 20' x 8' storage loft in my garage. I made a 20' beam out of 2x4s then cantilevered everything to the trusses above. It worked great, and is solid as a rock...and clear underneath to walk around under. To make the beam strong do this: lay 3 layers of 2 by 4 down with bottom layer 8-8-4', middle layer 4-8-8', and top layer 8-8-4' ...the idea is to overlap the joints. Use glue and screws...lots of them. With a length of 20' it will sag when lifted, but when installed with ties from above (one in the center and one at each end) it will do the job. It's basically a 4 x 6 beam. I used threaded rod to hold it up with nuts at the top and bottom ends of the rods using thick steel plates. Be sure to span at least 2 rafters with logs, or 4x4s to hold the upper joints. The back end of the loft is fastened to the back wall of the garage with 20' of leader board made with 2x2"s lagged into the studs every 16 inches.
 

jgira12

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Garageprojectandnewvan12-06012.jpg
 

Ironcrow

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Ironcrow: If I understand what you are saying correctly I should use 2x10x16 so an entire 2x10 does not span from one end of the garage to the other? That is how the built up beam in my basement is done. Of course I don't know if the same carpenter that built the garage did the rest of the house:eek:
Sorry, I mis-read your original post. I thought you were making a wooden I-beam with 2x4 flanges (top and bottom) with a 10 inch plywood web. In this case, the web would need to be strong in tension.

In your example, you are making a sandwich where the 2x10 is the bread and plywood is the peanut butter? Yeah, if you can find 2x10 that spans the whole 21 feet, that is best. So, how far apart are these beams you want to make?
 
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burleymike

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If I built two beams I would have about 7' spans for the ceiling joists. I called around town today and it is not looking good for 21' 2x10s 16' is all they can get. I will call the lumber yard in the next closest town to see if they can get anything longer.

If the price of steel was not so high I would sandwitch some steel in there and make a flitch beam.
 
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FunfDreisig

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....
Does 3 2x10x21 with 1/2" plywood sandwiched in the center and polyurethane glue sound like it will work. I am not great at calculating this stuff so if I am way off please tell me....
if you are willing to give up 9-1/2" of head room, why not use a 9-1/4" LVL or GLULAM? You can find load tables for clear spans on the I-Level, Boise Cascade, etc. web sites that take out the guess work.

FWIW my 3 bay garage has 4 -7' 3-1/2x7-1/4" LVL beams for window headers, 1 - 8' 3-1/2x7-1/4 LVL beam & 2 - 12' 3-1/2x9-1/4" LVL beams as barn door headers, a 12' 3-1/2x9-1/4" LVL ridge beam, a 24' 5-1/4x16" LVL beam as a barn door header and a 24' 16" GLULAM as a carport roof header. Note the 24' 16" LVL beam supports the lower end of the shed roof with a 25' clear span (done with 11 7/8" I joist rafters), the upper end of the 12' clear span carport roof (2x8 doug fir) AND the weight of 24' of sliding barn doors.

Funf Dreisig
 
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dipper

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call differerent lumber yards. I clear spanned my stick built garage with 2x10x20 on 24 o.c. That was pretty much right at the limit for the span table, but you could go to a 16 o.c. if you wanted too. You could also go to a 2x12. I have a 2x12x24 for my ridge beam (22' deep with 1' overhangs on front and rear).
The doubled up 2x10's with plywood, glue and screws will be alot better than what you have now. Price out LVL's but they can get pricy too.
 
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burleymike

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Ok I did some math,

1/2" gypsum board = 2.2 psf
10" Glass wool = 3 psf
Rafters 24" centers .7 psf

Total 5.9 psf

I am going to go with 10psf for the weight when the garage doors are open, the openers and if somebody decides to hang bikes or something from the ceiling.

Ceiling is 21x21
441 sqft
4410 lb for the ceiling.

I divided 4410 by 3, the front of the garage carries a third of the load the beam will carry a third and the back wall will carry a third. This means the beam will carry 1470lbs.

1470 into 21' gives me 70 plf.

Now I just need to find a span chart for a built up 6x10 beam.
 
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eieio

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Granger, IN
hey burleymike, the LVL will carry the load easily: 2 LVL, 2"x12' nominal, glued and triangle nailed 12' o.c. BUT, there are more options.

there are two places the built up LVL beam can be installed; the obvious is BELOW the ceiling joists at the center of the joist run. the less obvious is ABOVE the joists.

to mount ABOVE the joists, you need a hole in the gable end to feed the beam thru. and you will be most comfortable if you begin the jacking process noted in the next papagraph to assure that the ceiling won't give way while you are in the attic. of course, blocking and end posts are mandatory to transfer the load all the way to the foundation.
after the beam is set, the ceiling can be jacked up until the top of the joists contact the bottom of the new beam using wooden t-posts and typical auto floor jacks. to minimize drywall damage, take the entire ceiling up (a little at a time) evenly. then crawl into the attic, sweep the insul back away from center, and attach steel straps to the side of each joist over the top of the beam and back down the to the other side forming an upside down "u". the steel banding strap material used by lumber yards for bundling loads is just great for this use; it's cheap or free and you can air nail right thru it into the joists. two spikes on each side yields a shear strenght of 1200 lbs. drive a shim on top between the strap and the beam to tighten the joint. sweep the insul back into place as you back out. remove the jacks and job is done w/ NO loss of head room.

to mount BELOW the ceiling joists at the center of the joist run, snap a line on the ceiling to mark one side of the beam. prepare your beam pockets and end posts.

a few inches away from the beam location, set your t-posts and jacks. take the entire ceiling up (a little at a time) evenly and a little HIGHER than where the top of the beam will be (use a tight string end to end to gage this) before you set the beam. run three or four screws through the drywall into each joist exactly where the beam will impact the drywall, keep the screws flush and, bingo, NO drywall compression will be possible at beam impact. set the beam and pull the jacks out nice and easy

now, all this misses the more simple solution; it's called a King Post. assuming the rafters are also on 24" centers, you jack the ceiling up like noted above until it is flat end to end on the center run. crawl into the attic armed w/ 2x4s precut to be nailed beside EACH joist reaching straight up to beside the rafter above at or very near the ridge. perfect geometric plumb and straight are not important for function in the cure. use at least 4 spikes (16 penny nails) in each joist and each rafter (1200 lbs shear). this cure structurally converts the rafter/joist system into an elementary truss consisting of two triangles. it will work, it's cheap, it will take less time to build.
 

pwright

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Sep 8, 2006
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Hi Burleymike,

Just to clarify one of your points on the beam loads. When you do the math, if you have a beam with one support in the center, and one on each end, the center beam carries HALF the total load, while each end support carries 1/4 of the load. So that center beam is carrying 2205 lb rather than the previously metioned 1470 lb.

Hope this helps!
 
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burleymike

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I will have to go with a beam because the roof rafters are already carrying a huge load. The dummies that lived here before had two layers of asphalt roofing then put concrete tiles on top of that. This is a hip roof so I don't have a gable end. The electric service is also on that side so using a crane or any equipment would be difficult if not impossible.

My only option is to put a beam under the joists. I am real limited on what I can do.

I called all 3 lumber yards within 40 miles and they all don't have anyting longer than 20' in a 2x10. Looks like I am going to have to price LVL beams. There is only one lumber yard that said they have a guy that can size LVLs. Sometimes I hate living so far out in the sticks.

Hopefully I can get 2x10 or 2x12 LVLs so I can get them up there with a couple helpers. I don't have access to a lift or anything. If all else fails I could use camper jacks and lift it 4' at a time.

jgira12: yes you helped me but because of the rafters carrying so much weight I cannot put any more load on them.
 
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