21 vs 30 Degree Framing Nailer

[purplezr2]

So looking at purchasing a new nailer, likely an M18 nailer.

Using it to install all the interior girts and frame some walls/stairs in my shed. Then will use for my house addition and future she-shed likely.

I have a 30 degree air Pasolde nailer currently.

Thoughts on 21 deg vs 30deg?

 

[rlitman]

30 degree has more nails per length of strip and paper collation (so less debris thrown at your face), but D shaped heads. 21 degree has less nails, but fully round heads. A lot of inspectors look for round heads, and round heads do help with pullout resistance.

 

[dnschmidt]

What he said ^^^^. Some building codes require full round heads.

 

[KnurledNut]

Paslode 30° are full round head. They offset it. Sunk a million of them.

 

[RTM]

Check out what your local store Carries, just in case you need a spontaneous purchase.

 

[AEAdam]

I think 21 degree are cheaper and more readily available. For a framing gun, I prefer air and full round heads. I believe they produce better and more consistent pull up.

I fallen in love with the M18 18ga narrow crown stapler for the same reason. Staples have outstanding holding power and very good pull up.

Gaps between any wood joint aren’t great for a host of reasons.

I dont have a battery framing nailer. I personally can’t really see the use case. When I’m using my framing gun, I’m shooting 100s or 1000s of nails. For small jobs only requiring a few nails, I go with M18 15ga. And for trim I now prefer the stapler.

One thing I don’t hear discussed are nails that don’t go home for any number of reasons. Not sure what the percentages would be for different types of guns. Whatever gun you buy, you will need to carry a hammer. Sometimes it’s differences in the materials, not the guns that cause the problems.

 

[KnurledNut]

I think 21 degree are cheaper and more readily available. For a framing gun, I prefer air and full round heads. I believe they produce better and more consistent pull up.

I fallen in love with the M18 18ga narrow crown stapler for the same reason. Staples have outstanding holding power and very good pull up.

Gaps between any wood joint aren’t great for a host of reasons.

I dont have a battery framing nailer. I personally can’t really see the use case. When I’m using my framing gun, I’m shooting 100s or 1000s of nails. For small jobs only requiring a few nails, I go with M18 15ga. And for trim I now prefer the stapler.

One thing I don’t hear discussed are nails that don’t go home for any number of reasons. Not sure what the percentages would be for different types of guns. Whatever gun you buy, you will need to carry a hammer. Sometimes it’s differences in the materials, not the guns that cause the problems.

Whenever possible, I re-drive them home with the nail gun.
This is a common issue with built up LVL’s. Gun in all the nails, pull the nail advance back, slip gun over proud nails and fire again to drive them the rest of the way in. Little trick of the trade.

 

[sjvicker]

I dont have a battery framing nailer. I personally can’t really see the use case.

I used my M18 nailer exclusively when I built my 16x24 shed. It was nice to not have to run a generator, compressor and have to manage a hose for the project. It performed great and is still my go-to for any framing/sheathing project that is smaller or I'm tackling in small chunks.

If I were moving at pro speed I'd probably favor the pneumatic nailer but I'm a diy'er and the M18 has been perfect in most cases.

The drawback about the M18 nailer I dont really see mentioned is the weight. It's significantly heavier than my pneumatic framing nailer and gets fatiguing quick if there's a lot of reaching involved.

 

[AEAdam]

I used my M18 nailer exclusively when I built my 16x24 shed. It was nice to not have to run a generator, compressor and have to manage a hose for the project. It performed great and is still my go-to for any framing/sheathing project that is smaller or I'm tackling in small chunks.

If I were moving at pro speed I'd probably favor the pneumatic nailer but I'm a diy'er and the M18 has been perfect in most cases.

The drawback about the M18 nailer I dont really see mentioned is the weight. It's significantly heavier than my pneumatic framing nailer and gets fatiguing quick if there's a lot of reaching involved.

Too right! All framing nailers are surprisingly heavy. I see guys on youtube tossing them around like they weigh nothing.

That said, I’ve had little need to work over my head or in other uncomfortable positions. And before someone says I need to work out more, the weight of the cordless framing nailer or the inconvenience of the air hose really show up when I am climbing ladders and scaffolds with the things. Flexzilla helps.

 

[micromind]

With a 21 model, it's easier to bend down and nail studs to plates, you have to tilt the 31 more and it's harder on your back.

The 31s usually toe-nail better though.

 

[Renegade1LI]

Really should get both, just saying being that this is GJ.

 

[purplezr2]

Really should get both, just saying being that this is GJ.

Actually have a 30 degree pneumatic framing gun, which adds to the complexity of having both angles, but needing to have both nails angles for each, then throw in nail length.....

 

[dscheidt]

I think 21 degree are cheaper and more readily available. For a framing gun, I prefer air and full round heads. I believe they produce better and more consistent pull up.

this varies regionally. If you have to use full round heads, 21 degree is more common and probably cheaper. If you don't, 30 tends to be more common.

As I understand it, the reason for require full heads is it makes it much easier to spot over driven nails (and under, but sheeters usually fix those). An over driven nail has very little holding power on a sheet of ply, so where there are expected wind or seismic loads, round heads are typically required.

 

[Hilltopmasonry]

30 degree has more nails per length of strip and paper collation (so less debris thrown at your face), but D shaped heads. 21 degree has less nails, but fully round heads. A lot of inspectors look for round heads, and round heads do help with pullout resistance.

You can get full head nails for 30 degree nailers

 

[Beerhippie]

I thought that UBC requires all round-head nails for framing, and has done so for a long time.

 

[snickers muncher]

I was weighting the 21 vs 30 degree nailer a few months ago. I wound up going 21 because of the full head nails being more easily available.

I've got a m18 roofing nailer. It hasn't seen much use, but has worked perfectly.

 

[Rusted Nut]

30 deg. You can get a 30 deg gun into places you can’t get a 21. Code has required full round head nails for years.

 

[liliysdad]

30 deg. You can get a 30 deg gun into places you can’t get a 21. Code has required full round head nails for years.

Most folks buying a nail gun for use around the house could not care less about code requirements with regard to nail heads.

 

[Codyboy]

I have two 21° air framing nailers. A bostitch that needs a rebuild after sitting for a long time and the guts dryed out (has to be 20 or 25 years old)The other is a ridgid. Dragging around that skinny 100ft blue hose ain't so bad.
I bought a Milwaukee nailer. I was wore out after 30 minutes.
Way too heavy and only holds one stick of nails.
Not sure on the weight but I want to say 12 or 13 lbs . Looked it up, 9.4 lbs w/o battery or nails, So yeah its freaking heavy!

 

[AEAdam]

I have two 21° air framing nailers. A bostitch that needs a rebuild after sitting for a long time and the guts dryed out (has to be 20 or 25 years old)The other is a ridgid. Dragging around that skinny 100ft blue hose ain't so bad.
I bought a Milwaukee nailer. I was wore out after 30 minutes.
Way too heavy and only holds one stick of nails.
Not sure on the weight but I want to say 12 or 13 lbs . Looked it up, 9.4 lbs w/o battery or nails, So yeah its freaking heavy!

That was one factor that put me off the battery framing guns. Unlike battery finish nailers, when I get a framing gun out, I’m shooting ALOT of nails. To me, that makes the weight of the gun more significant and the effort of starting the compressor and untangling Flexzilla less of a hassle.

In terms of the additional clearance between 21 and 30 degree guns, I guess I don’t understand the difference. When I’m shooting toe nails, I’m tilting the gun side ways, not front to back. There‘s probably something specific they made the 30degree guns for.

 

[rlitman]

...In terms of the additional clearance between 21 and 30 degree guns, I guess I don’t understand the difference. When I’m shooting toe nails, I’m tilting the gun side ways, not front to back...

I don't understand those comments either. The rare times I can't fit my framer, a different angled rack wouldn't have fixed the issue, and I just get out the palm nailer and move on. When my Porter Cable 21 degree failed in the middle of a job, I ran out to HD and bought the Milwaukee pneumatic framing nailer, because it was significantly lighter weight than the competition.

 

[KnurledNut]

In terms of the additional clearance between 21 and 30 degree guns, I guess I don’t understand the difference. When I’m shooting toe nails, I’m tilting the gun side ways, not front to back. There‘s probably something specific they made the 30degree guns for.

I don't understand those comments either. The rare times I can't fit my framer, a different angled rack wouldn't have fixed the issue, and I just get out the palm nailer and move on.

Are you all talking about microminds comment in post #10?
If so, I think he was referring to building walls on the deck before raising them, pinning plates to studs. It can make a difference since you dont have to angle your hand as far back but I always grab the gun sideways with my thumb on the trigger.

 

[micromind]

Are you all talking about microminds comment in post #10?
If so, I think he was referring to building walls on the deck before raising them, pinning plates to studs. It can make a difference since you dont have to angle your hand as far back but I always grab the gun sideways with my thumb on the trigger.

That's exactly what I meant.

Leaning over to shoot a wall together that's on the ground, your back will notice the difference almost immediately.

Worse yet, with the 30 degree, you'll tend to shoot the nails at a downward angle, often shooting the wall to the floor and even more often penetrating the studs by less than an inch.

 

[rlitman]

Are you all talking about microminds comment in post #10?
If so, I think he was referring to building walls on the deck before raising them, pinning plates to studs. It can make a difference since you dont have to angle your hand as far back but I always grab the gun sideways with my thumb on the trigger.

That's what I do, and now it makes perfect sense to me. I still don't think my old 30 degree nailer would have fit, but my 15 gauge angled finish nailer would fit that way, so maybe there are some framers with short racks... Personally, if I were doing lots of pre-fab work, I'd be thinking about a coil nailer for the additional capacity, but I'm just happy not having to swing a hammer.