220 on 100 amp service?

[Drift_G35]

Hey everyone. I just bought a house with my girlfriend finally and have a pretty large garage for a starter home (700sqft). The downside is, there is is only one 15 amp circuit going to the garage. Now, I cant really do much with this.

I can put together a car with my eyes closed but I cant grasp the concept of electricity. So, i'm hoping someone will be willing to answer my questions.

I want to be able to weld, run an compressor, and run some larger tools as I get them like a bandsaw, drill press, mill...I know all those run off a 110 circuit but it all adds up. I also know that everything obviously isnt going to be running at the same time. So here's what I have to work with. Do I have to replace the entire service or can I work around that for a bit. I did just buy a house so I dont have much when it comes to excess income.

Thanks in advance!

 

[spongerich]

Is there natural gas there? If so, you could steal the dryer circuit for the garage. That panel looks pretty max'd out to me. You could pickup a used dryer for $100 (or a new one for not all that much more). Gotta be a lot cheaper than upgrading or adding a 2nd service.

 

[Drift_G35]

We bought brand new appliances when we moved in. So id prefer to not have to buy a new dryer.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Your gone to need a new breaker box.

 

[nate379]

Is this an older home?

I think the best option would be to replace that panel with a larger one because that is completely full. Those duplex breakers (think that's what it's called?) are ok if you need the room down the road but it almost seems like that was what was installed right from the start?!
In these parts you can't have a full panel on a new home, there has to be at least 2 (I believe) empty spots. Inspector won't pass a full one.

Also the dryer and oven breakers, those aren't correct, need to be a tandem breaker

 

[Motofixxer]

If you plan on being there a while...upgrade the service. Should be able to get a 200a service easily. Or just worst case use a 200a panel and move stuff to that panel and use the existing as the Main Disconnect. I use a guy that will upgrade for $650-$750 all inclusive, on average. Most others are up to about $1000. A 200a upgrade will be a bit more due to more work involved with replacing more wiring, mast heads etc. Many of those older breakers are actually known to be faulty and dangerous. Then you won't have any trouble running new circuits.

 

[nate379]

100amp is all many places will let you go. For an average home with gas for heat, stove, dryer, water heater, 100 amp is MORE than enough power.

Would be cake to pull that panel and put in a larger one. I know everyone is going to **** on this, but just need to kill the main, go outside and pull the meter out of the socket.

There power is dead from anything beyond the meter. Put in a new panel, looking at around $150-200 for panel and breakers (Lowe's). Wire it in, put the meter back in and all done. An easy project that you could have done in a day, two at the worst.

 

[Drift_G35]

100amp is all many places will let you go. For an average home with gas for heat, stove, dryer, water heater, 100 amp is MORE than enough power.

Would be cake to pull that panel and put in a larger one. I know everyone is going to **** on this, but just need to kill the main, go outside and pull the meter out of the socket.

There power is dead from anything beyond the meter. Put in a new panel, looking at around $150-200 for panel and breakers (Lowe's). Wire it in, put the meter back in and all done. An easy project that you could have done in a day, two at the worst.

This is the answer I was looking for! With this said, I know I can pull the main, but will it be able to handle a 220 in my garage that is roughly 40ft away?

 

[Aceman]

100amp is all many places will let you go. For an average home with gas for heat, stove, dryer, water heater, 100 amp is MORE than enough power.

Would be cake to pull that panel and put in a larger one. I know everyone is going to **** on this, but just need to kill the main, go outside and pull the meter out of the socket.

There power is dead from anything beyond the meter. Put in a new panel, looking at around $150-200 for panel and breakers (Lowe's). Wire it in, put the meter back in and all done. An easy project that you could have done in a day, two at the worst.

Come on, you've been around this electrical forum long enough to KNOW all of us are going to call ******** on this.

First off, cutting a power company meter seal is stupid. I wouldn't call it an easy project for a rookie either, hell I hate doing panel changes just because it's a real trick sometimes to tear an old panel out and put a new panel in without damaging drywall.

It doesn't really matter if YOU like cutting power company seals and doing jobs without permits, but you shouldn't be telling others on here to do it that way.

On top of that, when we do service changes we verify the breakers are sized correctly(wires aren't overfused) as well as all the grounding is done properly. Often times, we end up having to drive rods, and bond the gas and water pipes on existing services that weren't done right the first time.

 

[Drift_G35]

I knew it wouldnt be that easy. But... it says on our meeter that it is the homeowners property. I dont know if that changes anything. The house has also been redone before. It was built in the 50's and was built with aluminum wiring. Then it was redone with copper and the "new/current" box was put in. I dont want to do anything illegal, but i would prefer to not pull a permit unless I absolutely have to. Ive run wire before. I added a seperate 30amp circuit at my previous house, but it had a 300 amp circuit and about 12 extra spots.

 

[Aceman]

No permit? Good luck.

Check the batteries in your smokes.

 

[trainer]

There power is dead from anything beyond the meter. .

Pulling the meter used to be SOP during a house fire until a rep from the Ontario Hydro told us it isnt a reliable method of killing power to a building. There are different types of meters out there that dont work that way.

If money is an issue, why not add a 60 amp pony panel next to the current one?

You could move four existing circuits into the pony to make room for the breaker that feeds it and the one that feeds 240 to the shop.

It's not quite as good as a whole new service, but it's safe and legal.

 

[nate379]

Come on, you've been around this electrical forum long enough to KNOW all of us are going to call ******** on this.

First off, cutting a power company meter seal is stupid. I wouldn't call it an easy project for a rookie either, hell I hate doing panel changes just because it's a real trick sometimes to tear an old panel out and put a new panel in without damaging drywall.

It doesn't really matter if YOU like cutting power company seals and doing jobs without permits, but you shouldn't be telling others on here to do it that way.

On top of that, when we do service changes we verify the breakers are sized correctly(wires aren't overfused) as well as all the grounding is done properly. Often times, we end up having to drive rods, and bond the gas and water pipes on existing services that weren't done right the first time.

I don't have a seal on my meter but what would they do if you cut it? My parents place, my dad cut the seal off almost 30 years ago and it's still like that.

Don't need permits for electric here. Of course what can work for me might not work for you and vice versa.

Drywall is easy to fix.

Do agree on checking the wiring, grounds, bonding, I was assuming all that was fine.

 

[ForceFed70]

I'm surprised that nobody has reccomended a subpanel.

He can likely install a subpanel right beside his existing panel. And move 1 or 2 circits over to the subpanel to make room for a breaker to run the panel.

For a gas-heated house, you can make due to 100amp no problem.

Drift: Regardless, you are going to need the help of someone more knowledgeable than yourself. You'll likely need to call an electrician.

 

[Drift_G35]

Thanks every. I have a friend of a friend who said he would help me. I just didnt want to waste his time by having him come over and tell me I need to run new service and need a bunch of money. But now that i know that I can probably do it for less than I had originally thought I will call him out.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

But... it says on our meeter that it is the homeowners property. I dont know if that changes anything.

You own the metal box, the meter socket, the POCO owns the meter (which is 200 amp by the way) Power companies get right upset if you cut seals. They think you may have pulled the meter to insert jumper bars for part of the month to steal power from them. This is a mechanical meter, so it has to be read by a real person each month, they usually report missing meter seals.

I now have electronic meters, they read them remotely, however if I were to pull it, they would know it.

Also the dryer and oven breakers, those aren't correct, need to be a tandem breaker

A tandem breaker is two separate 120v circuits in one breaker body, a Double Pole breaker is two breakers, handles tied together for common trip on opposite sides of the panel's buses.

Look closely. LH side, top most breaker is a 20 and shares a stab with the 40 below it. lower 40 shares a stab with the 30 below it, and the bottom 30 shares a stab with the 15 below it. See the little bit of white between the handles of the two 40's and of the two 30's. Those are handle tie pins, common trip. The two 30's are on opposite buses and the two 40's are on opposite buses, so they function properly as 240 breakers, and with the handles tied, if one side trips, both trip. I THINK this fulfills the code requirements.

If there is slack in the wires, the OP's best option is to replace that panel with at least a 30 space or a 30/40 panel (30 spaces but capable of 40 circuits by using 10 tandem breakers) and staying with the 100 amps, which is probably more than enough (really need to do an electrical load analysis)

The garage is not going to present any unusual loads from the OP's description. The OP could up the power company service from 100 amps to 150 or 200, possibly with minimal expense, depends on what size wire the POCO used for service, what amp capacity meter socket is on the house, and what size wire is run from the meter socket to the panel. Sometimes POCO's oversize you to start with.

Charles

 

[Kriilin]

Why not see if a dual lug meter socket is acceptable code in your area? That way no futzing with the panel in the house. Trench in new wiring to a 100A panel in the garage, Bob's your uncle. Here's mine:

Oh, and if you cut the meter tag, you may have the cops there, as grow ops usually steal juice to run their hydroponics. This job was permitted, and the poco pulled and resealed the meter.