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220' pull

Innovate1

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I am planning to put 1-1-2-4 AL XHHW in 1.5" PVC sch 40 conduit. The depth is going to be 18" + a little for margin. So 18" radius bends at the ends would keep the bends totally below the ground and floor. How much difference will 18" vs 24" radius bends make for the pull? I don't have any other bends in the run. The conduit will be flexed a bit for a huge radius but nothing under about 15 or 20 foot radius so that effect I am thinking would be minimal.
 
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Innovate1

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They make 18" radius bends but 24" looks more common. Or I am considering making my own - doesn't look too hard. Main things from what I can tell are fill the pipe with sand and have some sort of form for a smooth bend. I have some large ovens at work I could use to heat it uniformly.
 
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Innovate1

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I have the pipe but could easily get 2" elbows and a couple bushings and even a short piece of 2" for lead in on each side. But there would be some chance of hang ups at the bushings. could make the risers 2" to reduce that possibility. Are you suggesting to go with regular radius 2" elbows or stick with larger radius? I found some pricing that makes it not worth trying to make the bends myself.
 
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Bert_

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If you can't find 18 or 24" radius just use (2) 45's with a coupling in the middle. I think it would be close to 18 or 20 inches.

Bending 1 1/2" or 2" into a 90* is kind of a pain.
 
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Bert_

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Honestly your only pull #1 so it's going to fly into the conduit. Regular 90's will be fine.
 

sberry

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Straight pipe and 2 turns doable but even number 2 gets to be a chore on 1.5 200+ ft is a ways. I might be tempted to tie a rag with some glyde ahead of it.
 

7635tools

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I wouldn’t change to 2” at the 90s. Either 2” all the way or 1 1/2 all the way. You won’t like pulling past that lip at the bushing. We usually use steel 90s on long pvc runs so the cable doesn’t burn through the 90.


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Innovate1

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Any suggestions to minimize chance of cutting through the last bend with the pull rope? Obviously a pusher on the feed end will help. I have some good sized UHMWPE line - the larger size should help spread the friction.
 
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Innovate1

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BTW, what's the deal with not being able to post sometimes? I get a message - something about logging in after the page loaded and to reload the window. I reload the page but that doesn't help. Seems like I have to go to a different page and come back to get it working.
 

7635tools

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Any suggestions to minimize chance of cutting through the last bend with the pull rope? Obviously a pusher on the feed end will help. I have some good sized UHMWPE line - the larger size should help spread the friction.



As I said previously, use steel 90s and you won’t have any problems with burn through.


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shawhite

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I would use mule tape instead of rope as rope has the tendency to cut thru in the corners. Pre-lune and have someone push while you pulle. Also the longer the sweep the lower the chance of it cutting thru. I think metal 90s are over kill for 200’
 

nadogail

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I would prefer someone feed, rather than push, the lubed up conductors as they are carefully pulled through the conduit.
 

JamesW84

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I used sand in a piece of regular conduit and a torch to heat and bend my schedule 40. It scorched it a bit, but that part was underground anyway. I pulled 2-2-2-4 in 1 1/2 for about 250 ft. Tie a plastic bag onto your pull rope and **** it through your conduit with a shop vac. I stretched all the wire out and taped it together on the end real good and to the pull rope. I used lots of wire lube (got mine at menards), and I pushed the wire while my brother pulled at the other end. The worst part is I didn't size it big enough for voltage drop, so I get to redo it
 

Bert_

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I used sand in a piece of regular conduit and a torch to heat and bend my schedule 40. It scorched it a bit, but that part was underground anyway. I pulled 2-2-2-4 in 1 1/2 for about 250 ft. Tie a plastic bag onto your pull rope and **** it through your conduit with a shop vac. I stretched all the wire out and taped it together on the end real good and to the pull rope. I used lots of wire lube (got mine at menards), and I pushed the wire while my brother pulled at the other end. The worst part is I didn't size it big enough for voltage drop, so I get to redo it

Has voltage drop been a real problem for you? As in other than on paper.
 
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fasteddie

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Any suggestions to minimize chance of cutting through the last bend with the pull rope? Obviously a pusher on the feed end will help. I have some good sized UHMWPE line - the larger size should help spread the friction.
Slip a piece of lubed hose or plastic flex tubing or conduit over the pull rope and down into your conduit far enough to go past the 90. Rig something to hold it in there. If it starts cutting the hose you can give it a quarter turn
 

Bert_

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It's technically against Code to use a torch to bend PVC.
All PVC is to be bent in something "designed for the purpose" (either a hotbox or a heating blanket)

Let's use a little common sense please. If you can bend the pipe without burning it or reducing the diameter (kink) then I could care less what gets used to heat the pipe. Obviously the hotbox is the more efficient method if you are bending very much.

I've bent PVC with a knipco heater (torpedo) once before.
 
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Innovate1

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Slip a piece of lubed hose or plastic flex tubing or conduit over the pull rope and down into your conduit far enough to go past the 90. Rig something to hold it in there. If it starts cutting the hose you can give it a quarter turn

I though of doing exactly that - just using a piece of steel flexible conduit instead of hose. I can poke a piece of tubing in the end of it and tape it in place to protect the pull line from from any sharp ends. It only protects the last bend near the end but in my case the other bend is near the start and has almost no load.
 

rpcraft

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Honestly your only pull #1 so it's going to fly into the conduit. Regular 90's will be fine.

That probably won't turn out well when it comes to feeding the wire. I'm thinking it might catch inside when it the bushing on the outgoing side? Maybe I am overthinking it.
 

JamesW84

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He said:
"It scorched it a bit, but that part was underground anyway."

That is exactly the thing I was referring to.:wtf:

discolored it. What exactly is going to happen because my conduit is scorched on the outside? I didn't say I melted through it, burned a hole in it, or anything else. I understand that if you had an inspector looking at it with a fine-tooth comb, you may have an issue. My inspector said he doesn't want to see any conduit or trench.
 

Bert_

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That probably won't turn out well when it comes to feeding the wire. I'm thinking it might catch inside when it the bushing on the outgoing side? Maybe I am overthinking it.

I didn't understand any of that...
 

ard

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On real tough pulls I have left off the last elbow and pulled straight. Then assemble the elbow and the rest of it after the wire has been pulled. Yeah, not code....
 

Tooldeals?

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Lube it....then push & pull simultaneously. Worst case scenario, it gets stuck. Then you cut the last 90 off and reinstall after. Just dont nip the pull rope when doing so. With the right type pull string and lube it shouldn't cut through. If your that worried, use metal 90s.
 

larry4406

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I have never had an inspector ask to see a trench before backfill...

Not in my neck of the woods...

They come out and walk the trench with tape measure in hand measuring depth of burial. Including a friggin' post lamp at the leadwalk!

One county I work in allows the master electrician to submit a ditch cert. I wish more did this.

One option if you want to bury the ditch but an inspection is required, take a piece of spare conduit, drill a large diameter hole saw thru it sideways (bit same as conduit OD), creating two birds mouthed pieces. Place birds mouth end on the OD of the buried conduit (tee like), and then tape this piece with painters tape to the buried conduit and keep it vertical while backfilling. This creates an inspection port that can be checked by the inspector via a tape at a later time. I had to do this on a 150'+ trench to a detached garage but proceeded only after meeting prior with the inspector and getting thumbs up. We installed over a weekend and backfilled, inspector came Monday and taped the ports, and signed off. We put the ports every ~20' as agreed prior since that's what he wanted. Then since painters tape was used, we could twist the port breaking the tape and yank it out and throw it in the dumpster. Painters tape holds it tight and keeps dirt out.
 

mike93lx

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Not in my neck of the woods...

They come out and walk the trench with tape measure in hand measuring depth of burial. Including a friggin' post lamp at the leadwalk!

One county I work in allows the master electrician to submit a ditch cert. I wish more did this.

One option if you want to bury the ditch but an inspection is required, take a piece of spare conduit, drill a large diameter hole saw thru it sideways (bit same as conduit OD), creating two birds mouthed pieces. Place birds mouth end on the OD of the buried conduit (tee like), and then tape this piece with painters tape to the buried conduit and keep it vertical while backfilling. This creates an inspection port that can be checked by the inspector via a tape at a later time. I had to do this on a 150'+ trench to a detached garage but proceeded only after meeting prior with the inspector and getting thumbs up. We installed over a weekend and backfilled, inspector came Monday and taped the ports, and signed off. We put the ports every ~20' as agreed prior since that's what he wanted. Then since painters tape was used, we could twist the port breaking the tape and yank it out and throw it in the dumpster. Painters tape holds it tight and keeps dirt out.

Geez, what a waste of material and time.
 
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