220v in shop

[trooper1954]

Hi guys,
Recently moved house, and in the new shop I have one 220v outlet that's on a 20amp double breaker. My welder and compressor are both 220v but the compressor runs 21 amps, and the welder requires 30amps. Can I change out the existing breaker in the panel for 30amp, can I also upgrade the existing 220v plug in as it's too small to take either plug?
My concern is the wiring from the panel to the existing outlet...it needs to be 10 gauge minimum, and I'm not sure if what's there is 10guage or not....how do I tell?
I have included photos....any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

 

[Innovate1]

If you have a caliper you could measure the diameter. Or look on the jacket of the cable but that may not be possible with most of it covered. Quite likely with that socket and a 20A breaker the wire is 12.

 

[u2slow]

A wire stripper with the multiple holes is an easy way to check wire sizes.

Check your welder's user manual. Many machines that need a 30A breaker do not need #10 wire.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Hi guys,
Recently moved house, and in the new shop I have one 220v outlet that's on a 20amp double breaker. My welder and compressor are both 220v but the compressor runs 21 amps, and the welder requires 30amps. Can I change out the existing breaker in the panel for 30amp, can I also upgrade the existing 220v plug in as it's too small to take either plug?
My concern is the wiring from the panel to the existing outlet...it needs to be 10 gauge minimum, and I'm not sure if what's there is 10guage or not....how do I tell?
I have included photos....any help would be appreciated.
Thanks.

You will not be able to put these on the same circuit.

With a 21a FLA, the compressor is probably 5HP

What is the HP rating on the nameplate?

Compressor will need to be hardwired.

you will need #10 THWN in pipe or #8 NM-b

you will need a disconnect for compressor if its more than 50' from and not within sight of the panel.

Breaker can be max 250% of NEC FLC but 30-40a should be fine.

NO you cannot just change the breaker to a higher rated on unless the wire gauge is larger.

highly unlikely the wire in the wall is #10 on a 20a breaker.

The welder is a different animal. What kind of plug does it have on it?

 

[u2slow]

You will not be able to put these on the same circuit.

With a 21a FLA, the compressor is probably 5HP

What is the HP rating on the nameplate?

Compressor will need to be hardwired.

you will need #10 THWN in pipe or #8 NM-b

you will need a disconnect for compressor if its more than 50' from and not within sight of the panel.

Slightly different rules in Canada...

#10 copper is fine because we go by the actual equipment's FLA. Table values are only used for generic circuit sizing. Also no blanket restriction on multiple outlets on larger 240V circuits. He could use NMD90 cable (run inside the wall), AC90 (run outside wall), or go to EMT and pull in most any common building wire type (but not cable).

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Slightly different rules in Canada...

#10 copper is fine because we go by the actual equipment's FLA. Table values are only used for generic circuit sizing. Also no blanket restriction on multiple receptacles on larger 240V circuits. He could use NMD90 cable (run inside the wall), AC90 (run outside wall), or go to EMT and pull in most any common building wire type (but not cable).

whoops.

Disregard anything I said.

I didnt read the OPs location

 

[teamextreme]

whoops.

Disregard anything I said.

I didnt read the OPs location

Except for your advise about not swapping out the 20A breaker to a 30A, that's not going to be code compliant no matter what side of the 49th parallel you are on.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Except for your advise about not swapping out the 20A breaker to a 30A, that's not going to be code compliant no matter what side of the 49th parallel you are on.

Huh? what did i say that wasnt code compliant?

 

[The Cobbler]

......
NO you cannot just change the breaker to a higher rated on unless the wire gauge is larger.

.......

whoops.

Disregard anything I said.

I didnt read the OPs location

Except for your advise about not swapping out the 20A breaker to a 30A, that's not going to be code compliant no matter what side of the 49th parallel you are on.

Huh? what did i say that wasnt code compliant?

he was just meaning , not to disregard the comment you made about the breaker. where you said disregard anything i said

 

[sberry]

You could change it to 30 for a welder outlet.

 

[u2slow]

Disregard anything I said.

I didnt read the OPs location

Only Code is location-specific.

Sound electrical knowledge is never to be disregarded.

 

[teamextreme]

he was just meaning , not to disregard the comment you made about the breaker. where you said disregard anything i said

Correct. Wylies, your advise about swapping the breaker was still valid, regardless of country, which I thought I made clear, guess not...
I re-read and there's too many negatives ("not"), so easy to confuse.

 

[bplayer405]

Yeah, easiest way is to pull the panel cover or the plug and check the wire size on the circuit in question. It'll either be larger than 12 gauge or not. If it's not larger then you'll be in for some work for sure. Even 10 gauge is only good for light duty short runs. No one says you can't go bigger, they just quote minimum requirements. A dedicated circuit for each.

I may be in need of adding a 50 amp line to my panel for a Lincoln tombstone welder. I plan on picking one up soon. I plan on using the same 6 gauge wire that fed my 60 amp service to that panel. The wire is rated at 75amps and the run won't be 4' so I know I'll be safe. Hope you get yours figured out.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[trooper1954]

Thanks top all for the advice and comments...
Have decided it's probably above my pay grade so will get an electrician to wire two new seperate outlets....that way I'm fairly sure I'll be safe :-0