220v Plug style recommendation?

[SB440R/T]

I don't anything that is 220v yet, but plan on putting a lift in and getting a welder. Should I use a three or four prong style plug for each?

One is in the ceiling(lift) and the other is in the rear corner(compressor).

 

[ard]

Wait until you get 'it'...who knows how it will need to be connected. Wire the box, then blank plate.

 

[SB440R/T]

Wait until you get 'it'...who knows how it will need to be connected. Wire the box, then blank plate.

Yea, that is what the electrician did for now.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Nominal voltage is 120v/240v.

There isnt any 240v equipment that is 4-wire. A lift, welder, plasma cutter, etc is gonna be 3-wire.

 

[SB440R/T]

Nominal voltage is 120v/240v.

There isnt any 240v equipment that is 4-wire. A lift, welder, plasma cutter, etc is gonna be 3-wire.

Good to know, the ones that look like the dryer plugs right?

 

[sberry]

The ones that look like a welder plug.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Good to know, the ones that look like the dryer plugs right?

No.

A dryer is 120v/240v and uses either a 10-30 or 14-30.

A welder or any 240v equipment uses either a 6-20, 6-30 or 6-50 depending on the amperage.

 

[sberry]

Welders use 6-50

 

[gtae07]

Here's what I'm wondering...

Why wouldn't a three-prong 50A plug be designed to also work with a four-prong 50A socket? I know they don't work like that but I don't understand why you wouldn't set it up that way.

I wired my shop with four-wire outlets and used the full standard wire gauge for the applicable amperage. It's probably overkill but I didn't know what else I might want to use one day. I also did the same in the attached garage.

 

[53Sparky]

Here's what I'm wondering...

Why wouldn't a three-prong 50A plug be designed to also work with a four-prong 50A socket? I know they don't work like that but I don't understand why you wouldn't set it up that way.

Because of the risk involved with the uneducated consumer trying to do dangerous or stupid (or both) things that are beyond their working understanding of electricity.

 

[SB440R/T]

No.

A dryer is 120v/240v and uses either a 10-30 or 14-30.

A welder or any 240v equipment uses either a 6-20, 6-30 or 6-50 depending on the amperage.

Thanks

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

50amp RV plug uses four prongs wires. Has a ground.

 

[SB440R/T]

Went by the house an he has 6-50 in two of the 4 spots already. I might just go ahead and get the others the same.

Sound ok? Since it is a new build I figure I get something in there now instead of leaving it blank.

 

[sberry]

Some of the equipment yo may want to connect to it may not be rated for 50 but both lifts and modern welders run on 30A

 

[SB440R/T]

Some of the equipment yo may want to connect to it may not be rated for 50 but both lifts and modern welders run on 30A

Ok, so do the 6-30's then?

 

[sberry]

The welder uses a 50A outlet. Put one for that. You can use a lower breaker in these. You do not want a 50A end on equipment other than welders that could be plugged in to 50A. The hoist is likely to be hard wired and will be limited to 30A breaker.

 

[SB440R/T]

The welder uses a 50A outlet. Put one for that. You can use a lower breaker in these. You do not want a 50A end on equipment other than welders that could be plugged in to 50A. The hoist is likely to be hard wired and will be limited to 30A breaker.

Thanks.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The welder uses a 50A outlet. Put one for that. You can use a lower breaker in these. You do not want a 50A end on equipment other than welders that could be plugged in to 50A. The hoist is likely to be hard wired and will be limited to 30A breaker.

the breaker needs to be 50a due to the outlet.

And the welder may have 50a input anyways.

 

[sberry]

No it doesn't. Cant be bigger than a 50. A modern 200 class mig allows 14 wire, 30A breaker to a 50A outlet for a welder.

 

[SB440R/T]

Eagle confirmed the 6-30 plug for their 220v lifts. I was looking at getting the 4 post lift for this new garage. Close on Wed.

 

[Cruzan80]

No it doesn't. Cant be bigger than a 50. A modern 200 class mig allows 14 wire, 30A breaker to a 50A outlet for a welder.

Why would you put a 50A outlet on wiring and breakers that wont support it? Especially when setting it up. Run the breaker and wire for the Max amp, and then downgrade the outlet. That way if there is a fault, it is entirely outside the walls!

Sent from my VIVO IV using Tapatalk

 

[revamped]

50amp RV plug uses four prongs wires. Has a ground.

and is 120 single pole, not 220 double. That **** gets confusing! lol.

 

[sberry]

Why would you put a 50A outlet on wiring and breakers that wont support it? Especially when setting it up. Run the breaker and wire for the Max amp, and then downgrade the outlet. That way if there is a fault, it is entirely outside the walls!

Sent from my VIVO IV using Tapatalk

Where did you learn this?

 

[sberry]

The machine comes with a 50A plug, this allows it to be plugged in to a 50A circuit. It's minimum circuit is a 14 wire and with that wire the max breaker is limited to 30, no where in the instructions does it say to cut plug off and change it.

 

[Cruzan80]

Deleted for getting off track

Sent from my VIVO IV using Tapatalk

 

[sberry]

What you cannot do is put a breaker on this outlet larger than it's rating. This is for a couple reasons. In some types of loads it may be to protect the wire for thermal but air the connected equipment may be limited for short circuit and depend in the breaker for protection. The plug on the end is a 30 it is designed to be connected to 30, if it comes 50 means it CAN be connected up to 50 even though it may not require it such as the 200 mig. The mig actually has a heavier cord than it needs to allow this.

 

[sberry]

This needs some understanding work yet, it takes a while to get this principle and is one of the fundamental principles of protection in this system.

 

[sberry]

While it's not good design to under breaker the worst happens is it trips. A 225 buzzer allows 12 wire on a 50 as does the 200 mig, only welders that come factory wired with plug that need bigger than 12 are 250 migs.

 

[sberry]

Only equipment that can be plugged in to higher circuit is 15A to 20 mostly applied on 120volts

 

[Cruzan80]

Deleted for getting off track

 

[Cruzan80]

While it's not good design to under breaker the worst happens is it trips. A 225 buzzer allows 12 wire on a 50 as does the 200 mig, only welders that come factory wired with plug that need bigger than 12 are 250 migs.

No, the worst that happens is that something overheats due to a breaker not doing its job. And then you have a fire...

 

[Cruzan80]

Deleted for getting off track

 

[sberry]

No, the danger isn't to the tool for drawing more than it needs,,, it's that the internal design of the tool is not rated doe short circuit higher than the rating on the plug,,,, and circuit by default. Some equipment like the 200 mig is, a pressure washer may use the same parts, use less current in a control at 240 than 120 but since it's in 30 needs larger wires. @ can may draw 4 on 120 on a 20A but 2 on a 30 needs 14 instead of 16.
Some have additional protection, internal fuse to Plow smaller components on to amp circuits, modern Christmas lights, 2 a fuse to allow the fine wire on a 20A circuit.

 

[sberry]

you don't understand this. No, you cannot put a heavier plug on the end,,, this is a no no. This allows it to be plugged in to a heavier circuit than it is designed for.

 

[sberry]

You are confusing tools with additional overload and they are circuit limited also, simply you cannot connect to a circuit higher that the short rating, different than it's draw and different than thermal which may include some factors for duty cycle.

 

[Cruzan80]

Deleted

 

[Cruzan80]

So now we are getting quite a bit off track.

What I originally objected to was putting a 50A outlet on a 30A breaker, using 14ga wire. Which I still maintain is an accident waiting to happen. Why not suggest having the OP size the breaker/wire/outlet the same? To save a few bucks?

 

[sberry]

Not all tools have additional protection, when they do its for thermal, not fault protection which is provided by suffecient wire size and limited breaker. Take the small mig, the 14 is suffecient for the load with additional thermal which is the protection for thermal for the wire, the breaker is an off switch and for fault or short circuit. Has. nothing to do with thermal

 

[sberry]

The cord has a 50 so it can be connected to common welder circuits, plug and play for similar machines. I am not suggesting he save money, I am trying to splain a concept intergaral to fundamental wiring and equipment circuit desjgn. I am not objecting to anything.

 

[Cruzan80]

Again, why intentionally undersize a breaker and wiring when supplying a 50A outlet? If the OP ever wants to use an actual 50A tool, he will need to re-run wire and swap the breaker, instead of doing it right the first time.

Otherwise you are saying that if there is a fault (non-thermal), the mig will pull up to 50A with no protection on the tool, and it is past its recommended tolerance? Then why provide it with a 50A plug if it is never designed to draw past 30A specified earlier, and over 30A is a danger?


Edit: Sorry if I read your post as objecting to not running 50A wire/breaker for the line. Just struck me as odd that someone would intentionally downgrade the rest and provide a larger outlet than the "back-end" could support.

I do understand wiring and circuit design, but I disagree on what the tool vs breaker job is compared to how you are suggesting it.