230 to garage final review,...

[460Rustang]

I need to get 230 from the main exterior panel to my garage 125 ft away:

OK, so hear me out, due to the many great points brought up by members and some library reading, along with youtube experts,.... I've rethought my plan.

Gimme some input guys.


Sub panel mounted within one ft of main panel
125 ft of #6 THWN run underground through 1" conduit, inside also per code
Tie to interior sub panel, no copper rod since it's an attached garage
Dedicated lines to outlets as needed


Do I need #6 THWN ground wire, or can I go smaller, how small?

#6 THWN @ 167 F / 75 C is good for 65 amps, so we'll have 65 amps where / when needed, but for now 30 amp breakers for the welder pulling 20 and the compressor pulling 22, correct?

What do I do about the 20 amp welder, the existing plug from Lincoln looks like a 50, why?

What about the 22 amp compressor, what amp plug do I attach here, 30?

For the record, as suggested, I'll NOT be doing any tie-in to the main panel, just the grunt work, then have someone come by, look it all over and hook up the first sub panel to the main breaker.

 

[pattenp]

I don't see where you confirmed that you can run another panel off the service entrance connections that are outside. Charles questioned this in your other thread in post #2. Your only option may be to add a breaker in the 200A inside panel and run the feeder from there to a garage sub-panel.

Edit: Can you post a picture of the panel that you plan to add the sub off of?

 

[460Rustang]

I don't see where you confirmed that you can run another panel off the service entrance connections that are outside. Charles questioned this in your other thread in post #2. Your only option may be to add a breaker in the 200A inside panel and run the feeder from there to a garage sub-panel.

Edit: Can you post a picture of the panel that you plan to add the sub off of?

I'll get one this weekend...there's nothing in there except the svc leads from the street, everything goes right back out through the slab inside to the interior panel

 

[pattenp]

Based on what you're saying I think you are not going to be able to come off with a feed to the garage from that point. Sounds more to me that you need to come from the 200A breaker box. We'll see from the pics.

I'll get one this weekend...there's nothing in there except the svc leads from the street, everything goes right back out through the slab inside to the interior panel

 

[460Rustang]

...there's nothing in there except the svc leads from the street, everything goes right back out through the slab inside to the interior panel

Based on what you're saying I think you are not going to be able to come off with a feed to the garage from that point. Sounds more to me that you need to come from the 200A breaker box. We'll see from the pics.

I'll post some up ASAP, the svc leads power the 200 amp interior main panel, can't they also power another 65 amp sub panel right next to it?

Please forgive my newbie-ness naivete,.....

 

[pattenp]

Not unless the meter socket is designed with a second set of lugs for another feed. In the picture below see that there are four lugs at the bottom of this meter socket on the load side. Most meters sockets only have two on the load side. See second image. If you have the second set of lugs you can add the panel.

I'll post some up ASAP, the svc leads power the 200 amp interior main panel, can't they also power another 65 amp sub panel right next to it?

Please forgive my newbie-ness naivete,.....

 

[pattenp]

The ground wire can be a #10 on a feed up to 60A. If the welder has a 50A plug then use a 50A outlet. The circuit doesn't need to be 50A. If the welder calls for a 20A or 30A or 40A circuit it's okay to use a 50A outlet.

 

[460Rustang]

The ground wire can be a #10 on a feed up to 60A. If the welder has a 50A plug then use a 50A outlet. The circuit doesn't need to be 50A. If the welder calls for a 20A or 30A or 40A circuit it's okay to use a 50A outlet.

Only "issue" would be that if someone plugged a true 50 amp plug / tool into this under rated outlet, there wouldn't be enough juice, correct?

What else would happen,..anything bad?

 

[pattenp]

Correct. The breaker would trip. The outlet should be identified as for a welder.

Only "issue" would be that if someone plugged a true 50 amp plug / tool into this under rated outlet, there wouldn't be enough juice, correct?

What else would happen,..anything bad?

 

[460Rustang]

I looked in the main panel before and really don't think it's a dual socket, can that be swapped out?

 

[pattenp]

Well you can....but is it not feasible to run the circuit from the breaker panel? Do you have attic crawl space that you could get the feed from one end of the house to the other?

I looked in the main panel before and really don't think it's a dual socket, can that be swapped out?

 

[460Rustang]

Much of the wiring is sandwiched between walls and the first and second story,...ain't nutting easy.

Thanks again, I'll post the socket pic tonight.

 

[ehjorten]

I don't know the history of this thread, but why don't you put in a 320A Double-lug meter? That is what PattenP showed up above. It gets you 400A continuous service: 1 house 200A panel and 1 shop 200A panel. That is what I am doing for my garage. The only thing you have to check is if your feeders from the transformer to your Service Entry Device are up to the task. If you have overhead feeders then that is pretty simple to change.

 

[2ManyProjects]

I need to get 230 from the main exterior panel to my garage 125 ft away:

Duplicating your previous post in a second thread was not a great idea. It has made coherently following-up to all of the points under discussion more of a chore than it needed to be.

Meanwhile, see my latest post to your ORIGINAL thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3424553&postcount=37.

I'll get one this weekend...there's nothing in there except the svc leads from the street, everything goes right back out through the slab inside to the interior panel

I'll post some up ASAP, the svc leads power the 200 amp interior main panel, can't they also power another 65 amp sub panel right next to it?

First, if you have two panels powered DIRECTLY off the meter pan, they are (at least in effect) BOTH "Main" panels, as neither is a "sub-panel" to the other. And as "pattenp" explained, in order to run two Main panels from a single meter feed, you need a specially-configured meter pan designed expressly for this purpose -- and the odds are, you don't already have that.

Only "issue" would be that if someone plugged a true 50 amp plug / tool into this under rated outlet, there wouldn't be enough juice, correct?

Correct, which is one of the reasons I questioned undersizing the welder circuit in my other post.

I looked in the main panel before and really don't think it's a dual socket, can that be swapped out?

Hold on a minute, now... We're now getting to the point where using correct terminology becomes important in order to not foster confusion. I strongly suspect that what you really mean by "main panel" in that sentence is REALLY the meter pan. Those are two VERY different things.

In any event, given the wiring scheme suggested by both "pattenp" and myself, the feed to the sub-panel would NOT connect to the meter pan. It would connect to a dual-pole breaker inside the main distribution panel, just like any other high-draw 240V load, such as your central A/C, electric range, etc.

Much of the wiring is sandwiched between walls and the first and second story,...ain't nutting easy.

That may be so. But until I see evidence to the contrary, I remain more-or-less convinced that doing it "our way" (i.e., feeding the sub-panel from the main panel, and running the feeder cable completely within the house/garage structure) will still be the easiest and least expensive way to go, in the long run.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I don't know the history of this thread, but why don't you put in a 320A Double-lug meter? That is what PattenP showed up above. It gets you 400A continuous service: 1 house 200A panel and 1 shop 200A panel. That is what I am doing for my garage. The only thing you have to check is if your feeders from the transformer to your Service Entry Device are up to the task. If you have overhead feeders then that is pretty simple to change.

No, a 400a meter main service panel is 320a continuous! If u need a bigger service than 320a continuous, then u have to put in a CT cabinet for CT metering!!

And if the service is overhead, the service drop is NOT the customers responsibility. The only thing that is, is thre service entrance wires in the riser pipe. If underground feeders, then thats the PoCos responsibility!!

Duplicating your previous post in a second thread was not a great idea. It has made coherently following-up to all of the points under discussion more of a chore than it needed to be.

Meanwhile, see my latest post to your ORIGINAL thread: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3424553&postcount=37.




First, if you have two panels powered DIRECTLY off the meter pan, they are (at least in effect) BOTH "Main" panels, as neither is a "sub-panel" to the other. And as "pattenp" explained, in order to run two Main panels from a single meter feed, you need a specially-configured meter pan designed expressly for this purpose -- and the odds are, you don't already have that.



Correct, which is one of the reasons I questioned undersizing the welder circuit in my other post.



Hold on a minute, now... We're now getting to the point where using correct terminology becomes important in order to not foster confusion. I strongly suspect that what you really mean by "main panel" in that sentence is REALLY the meter pan. Those are two VERY different things.

In any event, given the wiring scheme suggested by both "pattenp" and myself, the feed to the sub-panel would NOT connect to the meter pan. It would connect to a dual-pole breaker inside the main distribution panel, just like any other high-draw 240V load, such as your central A/C, electric range, etc.



That may be so. But until I see evidence to the contrary, I remain more-or-less convinced that doing it "our way" (i.e., feeding the sub-panel from the main panel, and running the feeder cable completely within the house/garage structure) will still be the easiest and least expensive way to go, in the long run.

Yup, thats most annoying. And several members have been doing this lately....ugggg