240 Circuits, how many do you have?

[GarageGuy89]

So I'm starting to build up an arsenal of 240v machines in the garage.

Will be running a new circuit and was hoping to hear a few woes or "should have dones" before I install it.

Was planning on running a 50 amp circuit with several 6-50R's in good spots. Outfit the machines with 6-50P's and call it a day. This way I can run just about any home or hobbiest equipment off of one circuit (welder, dust collector, table saw, drill press, lathe, etc.)

Thoughts?

 

[sberry]

Not all these are designed to be connected to 50A, welders are but the smaller tools are usually 30 max. Do not cut off any factory cord ends, whatever they are is the circuit size.

 

[Cruzan80]

May want to think about swapping them for locking plugs (same amperage as original plug). That way if somone walks by, the cord isn't ripped out, possibly damaging.

 

[grantw]

Be mindful, some AHJs don't allow more than one outlet on >20A circuits.

 

[GarageGuy89]

Not all these are designed to be connected to 50A, welders are but the smaller tools are usually 30 max. Do not cut off any factory cord ends, whatever they are is the circuit size.

I don't understand...Why can't my saw or dust collector be on a 50 amp circuit?

 

[sberry]

The internals and the cord may not be rated for 50A short circuit. It relies on the circuit breaker for fault protection.

 

[GarageGuy89]

The internals and the cord may not be rated for 50A short circuit. It relies on the circuit breaker for fault protection.

How do I find out max circuit amperage for each machine then?

 

[sberry]

Do they come with factory cords?

 

[GarageGuy89]

The welder is the only one that is still stock. My machines are older and have custom cords from previous owners.

 

[sberry]

I am sure someone will be along to correct me, this is some generalization as are some of the examples.
We may need to increase wire size in components from 120v to 240 units even though they may carry 1/2 the current at higher voltage but its due to th3e fact the rest of the machine may need 30 and instead of adding additional fuses we can up the wire size to be able to handle shorts. The only additional protection on my steamer is for the furnace motor and all control wiring is 14, in a 20A machine could be 16.
We built one a while back and I simply added a 2 space panel fed with a 12 with 50 end but has 20A breakers in it, we wanted to do as you mentioned, wanted to use it on 50 we had and it was portable.
If the motor doesn't have thermal we need to match it to correct breaker. There are several rules, I was drunk in class and read it since but dont use it and cant remember the details.
A thumb rule here is if it has a 14 wire it cant be connected over 30, a 12 wire may be able to connect to 50 depending on design.

 

[matt_i]

What I think is this...suppose you have a 240vac x 50A trunkline fed with #6 THHN from appropriate breaker, so all outlets go hot at the same time.

The idea is to connect a variable set of equipment to the circuit. One appliance/tool could potentially draw full rated amperage but all the other equipment draws individually less.

I think the best solution is to use #6 AWG cordage, then route to a NEMA-1 (grey powder coated) box, or even a square box if its deep enough, with an old school 2 or 3 pole fuse block inside of it, and then connect appropriate conductor size going to the actual machine.

Example...20A load connected to the 50A circuit. 6-50 male plug with #6awg cord, go thru a fuse block with 20A fuses, and then #12 awg in flex or conduit to the actual input terminals of the machine. In this scenario, any current draw > 20A from this particular machine, the fuses open and the #12 is protected. If multiple tools are used drawing > 50A total on the circuit and the breaker should trip.

This satisfies all the things that are trying to happen for safety. The breaker protects the downstream conductor all the way from the circuit panel to the input of the fuse block, which then limits the current flowing from there protecting the downstream wiring and the machine itself.

Note my ideas often conflict with the NEC so take them carefully I do try to comply with the spirit of the laws, and highly value electrical safety, although NEC is a "letter of the law" thingy.

General type of fuse

 

[EOC_Jason]

Be mindful, some AHJs don't allow more than one outlet on >20A circuits.

^^^ This... You are breaking code by wanting to put multiple 50A plugs on one circuit.

Check the data plates for voltage/amperage and wire accordingly. If you can't find it on the machine the main motor should have one.

I would also recommend a twistlock for larger things if you are going to leave plugs hot. Just a little extra safety and less of a chance of someone electrocuting themselves.

 

[Norcal]

^^^ This... You are breaking code by wanting to put multiple 50A plugs on one circuit.

Check the data plates for voltage/amperage and wire accordingly. If you can't find it on the machine the main motor should have one.

I would also recommend a twistlock for larger things if you are going to leave plugs hot. Just a little extra safety and less of a chance of someone electrocuting themselves.

Please cite a NEC article of the violation.

 

[grantw]

Please cite a NEC article of the violation.

Your local AHJ will have rules about multiple outlets on a >20A branch. Just because it's not in the NEC, doesn't mean it's legal in your area. Whether it's safe or not isn't the issue, code is. e.g.: If your equipment starts a fire and multiple outlets on a >20A breaker isn't legal for your area, insurance might not pay.

inversely, if you have a 20A equipment connected to a 50A breaker, investigators may note that too. Any reason insurance finds to not pay, they won't.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

^^^ This... You are breaking code by wanting to put multiple 50A plugs on one circuit.

Check the data plates for voltage/amperage and wire accordingly. If you can't find it on the machine the main motor should have one.

I would also recommend a twistlock for larger things if you are going to leave plugs hot. Just a little extra safety and less of a chance of someone electrocuting themselves.

Your local AHJ will have rules about multiple outlets on a >20A branch. Just because it's not in the NEC, doesn't mean it's legal in your area. Whether it's safe or not isn't the issue, code is. e.g.: If your equipment starts a fire and multiple outlets on a >20A breaker isn't legal for your area, insurance might not pay.

inversely, if you have a 20A equipment connected to a 50A breaker, investigators may note that too. Any reason insurance finds to not pay, they won't.

The NEC doesnt have a code that forbids this.

Its the international building code that does. Amd some AHJs have adopted that code.

 

[tdkkart]

The internals and the cord may not be rated for 50A short circuit. It relies on the circuit breaker for fault protection.

So where do I get 1A breakers for my 100W reading lamps by my recliner?

 

[grantw]

So where do I get 1A breakers for my 100W reading lamps by my recliner?

tis the season

http://betweennapsontheporch.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Plug-Fuse-2_wm.jpg

grab a repair plug, and the right size fuse.

 

[brewchief]

So where do I get 1A breakers for my 100W reading lamps by my recliner?

The 18 gauge cord on the lamp will handle the 15 or 20 amps needed to trip a breaker on the circuit it's designed to be plugged into, if you plugged it into a 50 amp circuit it would overheat and probably burn up before tripping the breaker. The cord not only needs to be big enough for the load but also big enough withstand the full amount of currant it could see in a short circuit situation before the breaker trips, this is a short period of time so it can be smaller then what one would normally think of for a certain sized circuit.

 

[Steve from Socal]

The idea that you are going to daisy chain a bunch of stuff together is often brought up when it comes to 240V service. The cost of breakers, wire conduit and accessories to do dedicated circuits is really not a big deal for most garage size stuff. My garage has 7- 240V circuits for a dryer, compressor, tig welder, mig welder, band saw, lathe and, milling machine. If you can afford the tools, you can afford the disconnect and wiring to make it work.

If your main panel is near full and or you have some distance to where your tools will be, get a sub-panel. It makes a lot of sense and it allows for expansion. My garage is right next to my panel, I have I double space left. I will put in a sub panel if any else shows up. I know you guys are saying yea well your panel is right there. True for my garage, my shop on the other hand needed 220' to get a 400 amp sub-panel to my machines. Just be glad you don't have to buy big breakers for 480/3 or a panel.

I do use one of the welder plugs to power my plasma cutter in the garage. The welders and dryer are the only things that use plugs, all the motor loads are wired with fused disconnects. I is more expensive to do this but, not that much more expensive, safety switches(disconnects) are cheap on ebay.

Plenty of folks here will spend tons of money on copper air lines and epoxy floors and squeak when it comes to another breaker and some wire?

Steve

 

[James-W]

Plenty of folks here will spend tons of money on copper air lines and epoxy floors and squeak when it comes to another breaker and some wire?

Steve

I have noticed that too and it is rather puzzling to me. But I guess it is all in how your priorities are geared.

 

[Thumper68]

I have 8 240v 3 for the welding and cutting stuff, at 50 amps, 5 at 20 amps for the table saw, radial arm saw, planer, dust collector, band saw and drill press (This one is also shared by the metal lathe with twist loc plugs), 1 30 amp feeding a sub for the compressor and 1 240v 100 amp sub panel for the boiler.

There is 1 more 240v 30 amp circuit that runs out of the building to feed a sub panel for my daughters travel trailer and a set of outlets and a light for guests travel trailers.

Good lord after typing this and thinking it through I realized that I am the only one who knows where all the elec on the property goes and how it works.

I am going to have to draw up a map and give the kids a lecture on how everything works. Because that is just the 200 amp panel in the shop there is also the panel on the pole that feeds, 2 cabins, another travel trailer, a shed, the well and multiple yard outlets. There is also about 2000 feet of abandoned elec in the ground from old stuff.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

I have noticed that too and it is rather puzzling to me. But I guess it is all in how your priorities are geared.

Wire is fairly cheap per foot, too, if you buy larger rolls. For 12/2 and 14/2 I won't buy anything under a 250ft roll. For larger stuff I usually just buy what's needed for the project, except THHN, at least 500ft rolls.

I have three 240V circuits in my garage, and that's plenty for me. I could've gone with two. I have a 50amp circuit for my TIG welder or my old stick welder, a 20amp circuit for my air compressor, and a 30amp circuit for my TIG welder on the opposite side of the garage, just because I had a bunch of 10/2 and an extra 30A breaker. I could've just used my heavy extension cord.

My only regret is not putting at least a 30amp circuit with a 6-50R on the outside front of the garage, by the driveway. Would come in handy for welding. For now I just use a 30ft extension cord.

All of my saws, drill presses, woodworking stuff, etc are 120V and I don't plan on getting any more 240V machines.

 

[EOC_Jason]

The cost of breakers, wire conduit and accessories to do dedicated circuits is really not a big deal for most garage size stuff. .... If you can afford the tools, you can afford the disconnect and wiring to make it work.

If your main panel is near full and or you have some distance to where your tools will be, get a sub-panel. It makes a lot of sense and it allows for expansion. ...

... safety switches(disconnects) are cheap on ebay. ...

Plenty of folks here will spend tons of money on copper air lines and epoxy floors and squeak when it comes to another breaker and some wire?

^^^ Totally agree... IMO safety first, do it right the first time and you won't have to worry about it.

eBay, Craigslist, used part suppliers, or even if you know some electricians or demo guys there are always good used disconnects that people are selling cheap. Fused ones are a little more flexible because even if the box is a little big you can put smaller fuses in for whatever equipment you're powering.

If you don't have the slots in your panel, put in a bigger panel or a sub, they don't cost that much and also you can find used panels at good prices... Don't just try and fudge it running a bunch of equipment on a single circuit that shouldn't be.

Wire is fairly cheap per foot, too, if you buy larger rolls. For 12/2 and 14/2 I won't buy anything under a 250ft roll. For larger stuff I usually just buy what's needed for the project, except THHN, at least 500ft rolls.

I don't even bother with 14 NM... I run everything minimum 12 just because like you said it's cheaper to buy the larger rolls. Always buy more than you need for the smaller gauge stuff (I buy the 250ft rolls @ HD) because you never know when you will need to add a plug or a light or do a little project here and there, it happens more often than you think. The big stuff, unless you are going to have a bunch of machines I usually buy just what I need because otherwise it would sit around forever and never get used.

I've found partial unused rolls of 12/2 & 10/2 at garage sales for $1, sometimes even free!

 

[NUTTSGT]

I have 3 seperate 240 breakers in the garage. One for the Stick welder, one for the Hobart MIG and a third for the compressor.

My service is also a 200 amp service seperate from the house.

 

[sberry]

Your local AHJ will have rules about multiple outlets on a >20A branch. Just because it's not in the NEC, doesn't mean it's legal in your area. Whether it's safe or not isn't the issue, code is. e.g.: If your equipment starts a fire and multiple outlets on a >20A breaker isn't legal for your area, insurance might not pay.

inversely, if you have a 20A equipment connected to a 50A breaker, investigators may note that too. Any reason insurance finds to not pay, they won't.

Have you ever seen or heard of this happening?

 

[sberry]

eBay, Craigslist, used part suppliers, or even if you know some electricians or demo guys there are always good used disconnects that people are selling cheap. Fused ones are a little more flexible because even if the box is a little big you can put smaller fuses in for whatever equipment you're powering.

Lets start searching Clist for used junk the OP doesn't know how to install.

foI think the best solution is to use #6 AWG cordage, then route to a NEMA-1 (grey powder coated) box, or even a square box if its deep enough, with an old school 2 or 3 pole fuse block inside of it, and then connect appropriate conductor size going to the actual machine.

Same for this. Use a breaker from the panel instead of a bunch of junk cobbled in a box. There must be at least one sparkie on here wired a wood shop with multiple machines. The single recept to circuit is not for residence, can be used in a shop.
In the case of a welder outlet for example one couldn't put multiples on an undersized wire.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Have you ever seen or heard of this happening?

At our business park, the insurance company sends an inspector once a year to go through EVERY space. They note anything they do not like, doesn't matter if it's code in our area or not, if they don't like it then they with either a) jack up your insurance rate or b) drop your insurance. They send a letter with all the issues to rectify and state you have X days to do so and to notify them when they issues are fixed.

I know that doesn't happen in a residential setting, but yes if your house burns down they do an investigation and if the inspector finds something like you were running a little 240V 20A space heater on a 50A breaker, guess what, you are SOL.

Also, there is nothing wrong with used disconnect boxes, or even used breakers. As long as they haven't been abused or are ancient. Many commercial facilities change out equipment and there's not already room to leave the old wiring in place so it gets removed. The price for 3-phase new vs used breakers is a considerable difference. My neighbor found a pile of CH breakers at an estate sale for $3, single & double pole. Sure they were dusty, maybe a few were used, but retail new it was probably $300+ of breakers!

Even in my house I pulled a 40A DP out of my panel that they stuck for an electric stove... My stove is gas so I'll never use it and I needed the space. Breaker is technically "used" but never had any power flowing through it.

 

[Crazyjake8493]

I don't even bother with 14 NM... I run everything minimum 12 just because like you said it's cheaper to buy the larger rolls.

I use 14 for all of my lighting in the garage. The lighting circuits are lights only, and with all LED's, I'll never come close to 15 amps. But yeah, for little extra cost you could buy 12 for everything and do all 20 amp breakers.

 

[-Brent-]

I have 3 seperate 240 breakers in the garage. One for the Stick welder, one for the Hobart MIG and a third for the compressor.

My service is also a 200 amp service seperate from the house.

Similar set-up for me, 2 welding outlets and a compressor AND one more for the mini-split.

I'm at 100A service subbed from the house.

 

[GarageGuy89]

This is kind of why I started this thread. I'm not seeing any reference's to NEC codes saying you can't do this, BUT just about everyone shuns the use of multiple outlets on 240V circuits, especially for 50 amps.

I'm not trying to cut corners or save money by doing this, rather build something that is efficient and can be used for multiple purposes, save space, and not have my garage looking like a power plant to plug in 1,000 different things at once. I'm a one man show and at most two thing will be running at once on 1 circuit.

What I don't like is having three 50 amp outlets just for one welder, three 20 amp outlets for one dust collector, and three 30 amp outlets for the saws, mills, etc. etc. etc. Wouldn't we all rather have three 50 amp outlets and plug in our equipment as needed?

I'm no electrician, which is one reason I ask the questions. However, what stems this whole questions is that my little iPhone or any other charging device for that matter, has I don't know, 20 gauge wire? Lamps, fans, vcr's all have wimpy 18 gauge wire. Yet it is all plugged into a 20 amp circuit...But when you talk about an 18 amp machine on a 50 amp circuit everyone one goes nuts.

Only good excuse I've seen is the "insurance company" doesn't like it. Hope I don't come off wrong on this. If multiple circuits are needed then that is what I'll do, I just wanted to get opinions and know what the code says about this stuff before I start buying wire. I guess I like to know WHY I'm spending my money before I do it.

Hope I don't come off as complaining or hot headed.

Thanks for the responses thus far.

 

[Steve from Socal]

Things like welders or dryers with plugs can be plugged into receptacles. Machines without plugs like larger compressors need to be wired to a disconnect of some sort.

Plugs even 50 amp plugs are not rated for high HP motor use, a 6-50 plug is NOT rated for a 5HP motor load. Plenty of people use them and never have an issue, could it cause a problem down the road?

Welders actually have some exceptions to the code on wire size and circuit protection, a welder circuit is only legal for a welder "unless" you ignore the exception and use full rated components.

The idea of having one, two or, three receptacles on one breaker or more depend on how you plan to use these. A circuit is designed to protect the wiring of that circuit, a 50 amp circuit, a 30 amp load will work and a short would trip the breaker. That same 30 amp load with a high resistance connection of say 47 amps could cause a fire because the circuit protection is OK with 47 amps.

Steve

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Have you ever seen or heard of this happening?

Yes and weve gone over this before.

 

[ToddW]

Things like welders or dryers with plugs can be plugged into receptacles. Machines without plugs like larger compressors need to be wired to a disconnect of some sort.

Plugs even 50 amp plugs are not rated for high HP motor use, a 6-50 plug is NOT rated for a 5HP motor load. Plenty of people use them and never have an issue, could it cause a problem down the road?

Welders actually have some exceptions to the code on wire size and circuit protection, a welder circuit is only legal for a welder "unless" you ignore the exception and use full rated components.

The idea of having one, two or, three receptacles on one breaker or more depend on how you plan to use these. A circuit is designed to protect the wiring of that circuit, a 50 amp circuit, a 30 amp load will work and a short would trip the breaker. That same 30 amp load with a high resistance connection of say 47 amps could cause a fire because the circuit protection is OK with 47 amps.

Steve

I believe this is also why 'new' compressors sometimes will come with the disconnect already on them too.

 

[bczygan]

So I'm starting to build up an arsenal of 240v machines in the garage.

Will be running a new circuit and was hoping to hear a few woes or "should have dones" before I install it.

Was planning on running a 50 amp circuit with several 6-50R's in good spots. Outfit the machines with 6-50P's and call it a day. This way I can run just about any home or hobbiest equipment off of one circuit (welder, dust collector, table saw, drill press, lathe, etc.)

Thoughts?

I have 3. And of course they are separate circuits fed from separate breakers in the panel with wire from each breaker to one outlet or machine.

Bill

 

[sberry]

I know that doesn't happen in a residential setting, but yes if your house burns down they do an investigation and if the inspector finds something like you were running a little 240V 20A space heater on a 50A breaker, guess what, you are SOL.

Also, there is nothing wrong with used disconnect boxes, or even used breakers. As long as they haven't been abused or are ancient. Many commercial facilities change out equipment and there's not already room to leave the old wiring in place so it gets removed. The price for 3-phase new vs used breakers is a considerable difference. My neighbor found a pile of CH breakers at an estate sale for $3, single & double pole. Sure they were dusty, maybe a few were used, but retail new it was probably $300+ of breakers!

Even in my house I pulled a 40A DP out of my panel that they stuck for an electric stove... My stove is gas so I'll never use it and I needed the space. Breaker is technically "used" but never had any power flowing through it.

Why have insurance? I agree this is all fine for you but probably not for someone aint even sure what brand of panel he has and is still stuck on a simple principle with a 50A breaker. You figure this a guy should pick thru used commercial equipment looking for cheap- **** to save 3 dollars on a breaker? Or some **** disconnect he likely doesn't even need.

Yes and weve gone over this before.

Well we can go over it again., I never seen it happen, I know a couple fir3e inspectors, seen a couple at work and I am sure they pick thru panels on occasion most of it aint mystery. I have never heard a reliable account of insurance being denied due to this, ranks right up there with the air tank explosion.

 

[Radix2]

This is kind of why I started this thread. I'm not seeing any reference's to NEC codes saying you can't do this, BUT just about everyone shuns the use of multiple outlets on 240V circuits, especially for 50 amps.

I'm not trying to cut corners or save money by doing this, rather build something that is efficient and can be used for multiple purposes, save space, and not have my garage looking like a power plant to plug in 1,000 different things at once. I'm a one man show and at most two thing will be running at once on 1 circuit.

What I don't like is having three 50 amp outlets just for one welder, three 20 amp outlets for one dust collector, and three 30 amp outlets for the saws, mills, etc. etc. etc. Wouldn't we all rather have three 50 amp outlets and plug in our equipment as needed?

I'm no electrician, which is one reason I ask the questions. However, what stems this whole questions is that my little iPhone or any other charging device for that matter, has I don't know, 20 gauge wire? Lamps, fans, vcr's all have wimpy 18 gauge wire. Yet it is all plugged into a 20 amp circuit...But when you talk about an 18 amp machine on a 50 amp circuit everyone one goes nuts.

Only good excuse I've seen is the "insurance company" doesn't like it. Hope I don't come off wrong on this. If multiple circuits are needed then that is what I'll do, I just wanted to get opinions and know what the code says about this stuff before I start buying wire. I guess I like to know WHY I'm spending my money before I do it.

Hope I don't come off as complaining or hot headed.

Thanks for the responses thus far.

Generally the light industrial wood working and metal working equipment out there is 3hp and under and works fine on 20A/240 circuits. My strategy has been to wire my machine area outlets with 12-3NM using a MWBC - so at any position I can have a 120V/20A outlet on one of two circuits or a 240V/20A outlet.

Pretty much all the machines I have that can be set up for 240 I do so. Planer. Jointer, Shaper, Table saw, Dust collector, Milling Machine, Lathes, etc. Unless you have some 5hp monsters or see some big nameplate currents, you may be overdoing it.

I think it is a good way to go.

With the newer NEC requiring GFCIs on every 120 outlet in the shop, things are a bit more complicated, but you can either run extra conductors to daisychain GFCI outlets or pay-up for 20A 2P GFCI breakers. At current prices, you can put in a lot of GFCI outlets for the price of one breaker, so that is what I do. I do have a couple of 30,50A outlets, but these are for specific uses. My 99% of my welding is fine on a 20A - I only use TIG/MIG inside the shop anyway. 30A for the compressor is hardwired/dedicated.

 

[sberry]

The idea of having one, two or, three receptacles on one breaker or more depend on how you plan to use these. A circuit is designed to protect the wiring of that circuit, a 50 amp circuit, a 30 amp load will work and a short would trip the breaker. That same 30 amp load with a high resistance connection of say 47 amps could cause a fire because the circuit protection is OK with 47 amps.

It isnt how much load is on it but rather if the machine is designed for 50A short circuit. You can put smaller loads on in a lot of cases provided the components are rated for it. Look at all the fixture wire and light bulbs on a 20A circuit. Breaker not protecting any of it for thermal.
Same for the tool loads, 30A breaker for a 10A load on a 14 wire isnt there for any other function but for a circu9it disconnect and fault protection. BTW, this is not aimed at Steve but general discussion but often hard to relate to without the quotes.

 

[sberry]

I'm no electrician, which is one reason I ask the questions. However, what stems this whole questions is that my little iPhone or any other charging device for that matter, has I don't know, 20 gauge wire? Lamps, fans, vcr's all have wimpy 18 gauge wire. Yet it is all plugged into a 20 amp circuit...But when you talk about an 18 amp machine on a 50 amp circuit everyone one goes nuts.

It isnt how many amps are on it. Its the size of the wire in the cord and the components after that, some depent if it has further thermal or not.
I can repeat it again, its not rated to be connected to a 50A circuit.
Let me quote myself.

Its not rated to be connected to a 50A circuit

. Let me do this backwards.

Lamps, fans, vcr's all have wimpy 18 gauge wire. Yet it is all plugged into a 20 amp circuit

These are all rated to be connected to a 20A circuit.
Fixture wire is 16 and some appliances may have 18 cord I spose but most are followed with internal fuse.

 

[EOC_Jason]

This is kind of why I started this thread. I'm not seeing any reference's to NEC codes saying you can't do this, BUT just about everyone shuns the use of multiple outlets on 240V circuits, especially for 50 amps.

As someone else mentioned, it's not NEC, it's IBC (I can't confirm this I'm not a licensed electrician), and probably also state or municipality codes. Just because it's not plastered on a sign at Home Depot doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I'm not trying to cut corners or save money by doing this, rather build something that is efficient and can be used for multiple purposes, save space, and not have my garage looking like a power plant to plug in 1,000 different things at once. I'm a one man show and at most two thing will be running at once on 1 circuit.

What I don't like is having three 50 amp outlets just for one welder, three 20 amp outlets for one dust collector, and three 30 amp outlets for the saws, mills, etc. etc. etc. Wouldn't we all rather have three 50 amp outlets and plug in our equipment as needed?

Okay, one more thing to consider. Have you looked at 6GA wire? It's not like running 12 or even 10, you start getting into space constraints. Also, take a look at the receptacles. You will not find a single 220V that you can daisy-chain like your typical 110v around the house. So if you wanted to fudge it and daisy-chain you would have to make little pigtails, but like I started out saying, it's not exactly small or flexible and trying to get all that shoved into one box is going to be a major PITA. Alternatively you could go to a junction box and tie them all together, but if you are doing that much effort a sub-panel with appropriate sizes breakers would not add much cost at all...

Rather than put plugs all over the place, put one plug and make you an appropriate long SO cord so you can move your welder around or whatever.

I'm no electrician, which is one reason I ask the questions. However, what stems this whole questions is that my little iPhone or any other charging device for that matter, has I don't know, 20 gauge wire? Lamps, fans, vcr's all have wimpy 18 gauge wire. Yet it is all plugged into a 20 amp circuit...But when you talk about an 18 amp machine on a 50 amp circuit everyone one goes nuts.

iPhone cord is low voltage (5v), the charger plugs directly in the wall. But other devices like you mention all go into a 20A circuit if their wire is thinner than rated it would have internal fusing, either in the plug or the device, and in theory a house *should* have AFCI breakers and GFCI for various areas. The basic 15A/20A circuit going through a house is kind of a unique situation. Most devices on it like you state pull very little current, thus that's why they allow several plugs to be daisy-chained on one circuit. It's a matter of convenience and also that modern devices should have some sort of safety built in (a fuse). But when you are creating circuits larger than 20A, it's because you are having ONE device that is going to be pulling a LOT of juice, so safety starts to become more important. Also while a short on a 20A circuit is bad... Something shorting on a 50A circuit is REALLY bad... Think difference between a little "pop" and an arc-welder sizzling...


Also like someone else said, certain sized "motor" loads are required to be hard-wired and not a plug (5HP and larger). If you read the fine print, certain plugs & switches will tell you exactly how high of a HP motor they will support. Don't ask me why, I'm not a licensed electrician, I've just done a lot of electrical work and know what you should & shouldn't do for the most part. Likewise for those things that are hard-wired, there's code that states there must be a way to disconnect power from the machine within X feet of it (either by a disconnect box or the breaker panel)... Some people don't want to mess with them but to me having that disconnect box for any hardwired device is just good practice because you never know.


I understand what you *want* to do, and yeah many people including myself wish it was *okay* to do that. But the fact is, it's not correct nor appropriate. Usually equipment that requires more power than your 110v/15a receptacle really shouldn't move around, exception being a welder. That's why I mention previously about making a long SO cord for your welder because you never know where you will need it.

A big saw, vacuum, or whatever are kind of stationary. If you don't want to run complete circuits from your main panel, think about running one heavy wire to a little 4-slot surface-mount sub-panel. Then you could come out from there with a pair of plugs, each on their own breaker and appropriately sized. For instance... Start with a 50A breaker in your main panel, run 6GA wire to a small sub-panel. Then you can attach your 50A receptacle (with another 50A breaker), and a 30A receptacle with a 30A breaker. So you aren't having to make multiple runs back to your main panel for each plug, and that is all okay to do.

 

[Richard Cranium]

counting on my fingers, 6