240 volt circuit for a new welder

[75gmck25]

I have a Lincoln POWER MIG 211i 120/240 volt welder on order and I want to install a 240 volt receptacle so that I have the option of using 240. The receptacle will be in the garage, only about 3-4 feet from the panel, so minimal voltage loss.

The online documentation from Lincoln says I should use a 40 amp breaker and 12 gauge wire for the 240 volt welder receptacle. I have both 10 and 12 gauge wire on hand, and the conduit I need, so it would be a quick job. However, I also have 6/3 NM-B left over from installing a range receptacle, so I could use 6 gauge copper wire instead of the 10 gauge.

Is there any disadvantage in wiring with 6 gauge wire instead of 10 gauge? Would I always want to stick with the recommended 40 amp breaker? Using larger wire would give me the option to repurpose it for an EV charger, or plug in a higher amperage tool if the need comes up later.

 

[walta]

I think the welder will have a NEMA 6-50 plug on its cord from the factory. I would install a matching outlet for the welder and if and when the electric car arrives install what it needs at that point.

I like copper the bigger the better. Yes, the 12 gage will do fine give its duty cycle, Your welder should work the same with both wires. If I had 6 gage on hand I would likely use it.

The disadvantage is how difficult it is to bend 6 gage wire and get the receptacle in the box with 3 or 4 stiff wires attached.


Walta

 

[mike93lx]

If you want to use the circuit for anything other than a welder, you have to run the 6. For a dedicated welder circuit, I'd run 10. 12 is fine for your welder's duty cycle, though

 

[Snapped-off]

I ran 6/2 for mine since I had it already. It's a true 50 amp circuit, but it'll only ever see the welder.

 

[dcg9381]

Because I run "other" things on the receptacle, I run 6ga wire and setup 14-50R on a 50A breaker. I often connect RVs or an EV charger on the outlet.

My "hack" circuit is 10ga, 30A breaker and a 14-50R with a "30A" label. 6000 watts is more than enough for most 240V power "things". Runs RVs just fine. EV chargers need to be "turned down" so they don't overdraw.

Breaker is really designed to protect the wire.

 

[rooster59]

I would do 10g wire on a 50, that’s what stick buzz boxes ask for. Or 10g/40a if you like. Save your 6/3 for whenever you put in a circuit that needs a bigger wire. Put a ‘welder only’ tag on the outlet.

 

[sparky 1971]

I have a Lincoln POWER MIG 211i 120/240 volt welder on order and I want to install a 240 volt receptacle so that I have the option of using 240. The receptacle will be in the garage, only about 3-4 feet from the panel, so minimal voltage loss.

The online documentation from Lincoln says I should use a 40 amp breaker and 12 gauge wire for the 240 volt welder receptacle. I have both 10 and 12 gauge wire on hand, and the conduit I need, so it would be a quick job.

Use whatever you feel like, it doesn't matter if it's 10 or 12, I would use 10 if I had both on hand.

However, I also have 6/3 NM-B left over from installing a range receptacle, so I could use 6 gauge copper wire instead of the 10 gauge.

Is there any disadvantage in wiring with 6 gauge wire instead of 10 gauge? Would I always want to stick with the recommended 40 amp breaker? Using larger wire would give me the option to repurpose it for an EV charger, or plug in a higher amperage tool if the need comes up later.

No disadvantage other than it's tougher to work with, but save it so you can put the car charger that may or may not be in your future in the ideal place. I can't think of anything a home shop would require that needs a 50 amp circuit outside of a 14-50R for a camper.

 

[dcg9381]

I would do 10g wire on a 50, that’s what stick buzz boxes ask for.

Educate me. How is this not a code violation? You could plug something else in there and smoke the wire.

 

[mike93lx]

Educate me. How is this not a code violation? You could plug something else in there and smoke the wire.

Welder only circuits can be wired based on the duty cycle of the welder.

 

[sparky 1971]

Educate me. How is this not a code violation? You could plug something else in there and smoke the wire.

If you really need something to do, it's Article 630 of the NEC. It's two pages long and I have never read it, but know it's there if I need it.

 

[Norcal]

Rules for welding equipment is way different then a normal branch circuit due the duty cycle of the welder, since it's a short run to the panel, I would make it a 50A rather then a welder only circuit.

 

[dcg9381]

If you really need something to do, it's Article 630 of the NEC. It's two pages long and I have never read it, but know it's there if I need it.

You guys are faster...
This type of circuit isn't something that I'd put in, even if allowed by NEC, so I've never researched it. @mike93lx explained it.

 

[Jack Ryan]

Just for interest, given the machine's specifications:



In Australia and most places outside of North America, a 20A Type C breaker and 2.5mm2 (14G) wire would be required as the effective supply current (Ieff) is 15A.

Jack

 

[sparky 1971]

You guys are faster...
This type of circuit isn't something that I'd put in, even if allowed by NEC, so I've never researched it. @mike93lx explained it.

The only welder receptacle I've ever installed that didn't have #8 THWN or #6 romex was my own and I used #10 wire, don't remember the breaker, it could be a 30, 40, or 50 and a 6-50R. I don't trust people not to do something stupid in the first place, and usually when they call me to ask about installing a "twotwenny plug" for a welder they are gonna get some day, they have no clue what they are going to wind up with so I just make sure the spectrum is covered.

 

[u2slow]

I run my smallish 240V welding machines on 20A circuits without any issues (Millermatic 211 and Century 160.)

 

[micromind]

Even though it's code-compliant, there's no possible way I would ever run less than 50 amp wire to a 50 amp receptacle.

No one knows what will be plugged in to it in the future. Suppose a 50 amp receptacle is fed with #12 and an electric car charger is plugged in to it, or an 8 KW electric heater.

 

[mike93lx]

The only welder receptacle I've ever installed that didn't have #8 THWN or #6 romex was my own and I used #10 wire, don't remember the breaker, it could be a 30, 40, or 50 and a 6-50R. I don't trust people not to do something stupid in the first place, and usually when they call me to ask about installing a "twotwenny plug" for a welder they are gonna get some day, they have no clue what they are going to wind up with so I just make sure the spectrum is covered.

If I was a pro, I'd likely do the same. For my own ****, #10 is plenty

 

[Jack Ryan]

Even though it's code-compliant, there's no possible way I would ever run less than 50 amp wire to a 50 amp receptacle.

No one knows what will be plugged in to it in the future. Suppose a 50 amp receptacle is fed with #12 and an electric car charger is plugged in to it, or an 8 KW electric heater.

Again, for interest. The rest of the world doesn't have that problem as the machine would be plugged into a 15A socket.

EVs and large heaters have an Ieff that is much closer the the maximum supply current drawn, so the outlet (and the cable run) would be suitable for that.

Jack

 

[mike93lx]

Even though it's code-compliant, there's no possible way I would ever run less than 50 amp wire to a 50 amp receptacle.

No one knows what will be plugged in to it in the future. Suppose a 50 amp receptacle is fed with #12 and an electric car charger is plugged in to it, or an 8 KW electric heater.

We can do whatever we want in our own shops (assuming meeting code minimum), but I don't worry about the next guy and as long as I live in my house, no one is plugging anything into 240v receptacles in my garage besides me.

 

[micromind]

We can do whatever we want in our own shops (assuming meeting code minimum), but I don't worry about the next guy and as long as I live in my house, no one is plugging anything into 240v receptacles in my garage besides me.

Suppose you get ran over by a large truck tomorrow and the next person living in your house has an EV and plugs it into the 50 amp receptacle fed with #12s..........

 

[mike93lx]

Suppose you get ran over by a large truck tomorrow and the next person living in your house has an EV and plugs it into the 50 amp receptacle fed with #12s..........

The one that is labeled "for welder use only"? That's his problem, not mine

I guess it's his problem anyway, regardless of the label.

Its really not the kind of thing I worry about at all

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

We can do whatever we want in our own shops (assuming meeting code minimum), but I don't worry about the next guy and as long as I live in my house, no one is plugging anything into 240v receptacles in my garage besides me.

FACT! Someone else is going to own your house eventually because we are ALL here on a temporary basis…….. I say to wire this 50 amp outlet with #6, especially since EV's are getting popular.

BTW! May you live a long and healthy life but never forget that we are all one day closer to taking a "dirt nap"

 

[mike93lx]

FACT! Someone else is going to own your house eventually because we are ALL here on a temporary basis…….. I say to wire this 50 amp outlet with #6 ESPECIALLY since EV's are getting popular.

BTW! May you live a long and healthy life but never forget that we are all one day closer to taking a "dirt nap"

Go for it. I'd never tell someone not to exceed code.

Thankfully we all have our own discretion. I do work to meet my needs, not what the next guy might do. If I was installing an EV, it would get a dedicated circuit and be hardwired, not use a welder receptacle. To each his own

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Go for it. I'd never tell someone not to exceed code.

Thankfully we all have our own discretion. I do work to meet my needs, not what the next guy might do. If I was installing an EV, it would get a dedicated circuit and be hardwired, not use a welder receptacle. To each his own

Fuggabout the EV charger so how about the "new homeowner" who wants to plug in a kiln and they assume the receptacle is wired for 50 amps.

 

[mike93lx]

Fuggabout the EV charger so how about the "new homeowner" who wants to plug in a kiln and they assume the receptacle is wired for 50 amps.

Great point. Tons of kilns in residential garages.

You've completely changed my stance

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

Great point. Tons of kilns in residential garages.

You've completely changed my stance

I learn something new each day too!

BTW! I have seen at least three kilns in residential garages in my career.……… I even saw a few hot tubs, saunas and a stationary swimmer in a garage too.

 

[mike93lx]

I learn something new each day too!

BTW! I have seen at least three kilns in residential garages in my career.……… I even saw a few hot tubs, saunas and a stationary swimmer in a garage too.

I bet if you are the kind of guy with a kiln, or friends/customers with kilns, you have a higher liklihood of encountering another garage with one.

All those things are possible and if one is installed in my garage by someone down the road, I hope they are prudent and validate the hookup for their completely atypical appliance. If they don't, I hope they have some marshmallows on hand and a good insurance policy.

 

[u2slow]

Running #6 for a machine needing 15A is foolish.

I use any extra #6 as sub-panel feeders.

 

[sparky 1971]

The only welder receptacle I've ever installed that didn't have #8 THWN or #6 romex was my own and I used #10 wire, don't remember the breaker, it could be a 30, 40, or 50 and a 6-50R. I don't trust people not to do something stupid in the first place, and usually when they call me to ask about installing a "twotwenny plug" for a welder they are gonna get some day, they have no clue what they are going to wind up with so I just make sure the spectrum is covered.

You guys made me look. I used a 30 amp breaker for my welder (Lincoln 180). I doubt it had anything to do with the #10 wire. It's more likely that breaker was laying on top in the Homeline bin in my service truck and is what I came out with when I reached in.

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

I bet if you are the kind of guy with a kiln, or friends/customers with kilns, you have a higher liklihood of encountering another garage with one.

Since you don’t know me or never met me, what do you mean?………. Please explain yourself.

 

[acer66]

Since you don’t know me or never met me, what do you mean?………. Please explain yourself.

My uneducated guess is that people with a certain interest know people with similar interest.

I have a lot of friends that ride motorcycles because I have an interest in them and ride too same with stamp collectors, bee keepers and even people with kilns.

Which is the reason why we have sites like GJ.

 

[Bert_]

I use a lot of #8 for 50A welder outlets. Even #8 Romex on a 50A is never going to overheat, even if you plug something stupid into it.

#10 is unlikely to ever be a problem. #12 you could push to failure but it will be a connection.

#6 is just harder to work with for no reason.

 

[mike93lx]

Since you don’t know me or never met me, what do you mean?………. Please explain yourself.

Seems like I struck a nerve, not sure why. As @acer66 said, it's that being into a very niche thing tends to attract people of similar interests and it you are a pro, like a sparky, I bet word of mouth gets you referrals from within the same group of people.

 

[no704]

I have a welder (a couple actually) and a kiln. Is there some club I’m supposed to join?

 

[Bert_]

I have a welder (a couple actually) and a kiln. Is there some club I’m supposed to join?

Invite only

 

[no704]

Where do I sign up? Does it matter if my kiln has a ramp controller?

 

[MongoTA]

I have a Lincoln POWER MIG 211i 120/240 volt welder on order and I want to install a 240 volt receptacle so that I have the option of using 240. The receptacle will be in the garage, only about 3-4 feet from the panel, so minimal voltage loss.

The online documentation from Lincoln says I should use a 40 amp breaker and 12 gauge wire for the 240 volt welder receptacle. I have both 10 and 12 gauge wire on hand, and the conduit I need, so it would be a quick job. However, I also have 6/3 NM-B left over from installing a range receptacle, so I could use 6 gauge copper wire instead of the 10 gauge.

Is there any disadvantage in wiring with 6 gauge wire instead of 10 gauge? Would I always want to stick with the recommended 40 amp breaker? Using larger wire would give me the option to repurpose it for an EV charger, or plug in a higher amperage tool if the need comes up later.

Good welder.

You can wire it to the specs described in the installation manual but because the wire will be undersized for the breaker, be certain to label the outlet "For welder use Only".

Or just use the larger 6ga that you have. With the wire being adequate for the breaker, no label will be required, and you've sort of future proofed the conductors running from the breaker to the outlet should your needs for the circuit change down the road.

 

[American Locomotive]

For such a short wire run, I would just use the 6 gauge wire. That way you have a fully capable 6-50R "welder" outlet that you could plug other more powerful things into, in the future. Like a potential electric car charger, a heater, some other 240v-powered tool, whatever.

Educate me. How is this not a code violation? You could plug something else in there and smoke the wire.

The NEC allows you to run a put a 50 amp breaker and 12 gauge wire as long as you put a sticker (that definitely won't ever fall off) on the outlet that says "FOR WELDER USE ONLY" and pinky-promise to never ever plug anything else BUT a low-duty-cycle welder into it. It's a ridiculous exception.

 

[u2slow]

^ That's because a 6-50p on a small welder is equally ridiculous.

 

[rharman]

I have a welder (a couple actually) and a kiln. Is there some club I’m supposed to join?