240v 2 hp motor rotation wiring

[51dueller]

So I picked up a cheap 2003 Taiwanese dust collector that was bearly used for it's 240v 2 hp 9 amp to use on my table saw. It's the same motor used on my jointer, planer and dust collector. First issue, I found was it had a 24mm shaft instead of the 7/8 that all the other machines have. In my haste, I dropped off the shaft to get turned down by a local retired guy and I have a bad feeling the motor spins the wrong way.

From what I understand to change a motors rotation, I'd need three wires and this only has two. Looking at the motor winding there is a third connection. It does ohm the same as the other leads (I could be doing this wrong). Am I lucky and just need to add an additional wire or am I screwed?

 

[Dagny]

If the windings are centered in that housing you can stick the shaft out the other side of the motor.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

whats the make and model on the motor?

 

[51dueller]

I thought of that but the windings aren't centered.

These motors only get a sticker from the equipment manufacturer that only says voltage, amp and rpm.

Here's the inside of my 2021 version of the motor on my dust collector that does spin the right way. This one has a run capacitor that is connected to the third lead.


Here's the inside of my 2015 jointer that spins the wrong way. This one says its 12 amp. Looks like third lead is more to the left.

 

[51dueller]

Here's a general wiring diagram of the motors. The winding numbers are completely arbitrary. Could it just be as simple as adding a wire to the third leg to the centrifugal switch and not use the one wire currently for the centrifugal switch?

 

[walta]

Often low-cost motors are not designed to be reversable. To save costs the manufactures do not bring the wires necessary out into the box with the connectors.

My guess is your motor does have enough wires brought out to allow the motor to operate at 2 different voltages 120 & 240 V.

Again, I am guessing but it seems likely your motor is made something like the one in this photo. To reverse you need to change the direction of current flow in the start/ auxiliary windings relative to the main windings. You need to switch the red and blue wires around in this photo. The yellow arrow points to the smaller gage start windings and the green arrow points to the larger gage wires of the run windings. The connection you are looking for are likely in the red tubing in the photo. Messing with the connections is not without risk bending the solid wires more than a few time the wire could break the winding.

Walta

 

[fitter30]

Would an adjustable motor base work if there's room for the shaft the other way?

 

[dogdog]

I don’t think this have anything to do with cheap motors. The motor looks tightly wounded and wounded for a specific purpose, means either hardwired it for one direction and/or specific voltage. The quality of the motor dependents on the bearing used, the number of poles/laminates, and how well it is balanced from eddy current. (if I remember correctly), I probably won't see how cheap motors are from looks. The ones with an auto reset heat fuse embedded probably are non-continuous duty motors. Just mean they are design for a specific purpose.

In OPs case... lots of unknown as if the motor is made originally for that equipment. or if that impeller is the correct one.. means how did the OP come to a conclusion that the one on the duster is spinning the wrong way ? If that motor is from the factory, they don't all the sudden spins the wrong way, just because he bough it.

Now the question is,... if it is still reversible.. and that is a yes but not without voiding warranty and digging into the wiring and determine what type of AC motor he got there.

 

[dogdog]

thought of that but the windings aren't centered.

These motors only get a sticker from the equipment manufacturer that only says voltage, amp and rpm.

Here's the inside of my 2021 version of the motor on my dust collector that does spin the right way. This one has a run capacitor that is connected to the third lead.

Not sure what do you mean the winding aren't centered means.

do you know if these motor have a centrifugal switch?
is this a dual voltage motor or single voltage 240V only.

is the diagram from post #5 from your motor plate or your googlefoos ? W1 W2 W3 usually denotes windings... Not too sure about W4.. normally motors have W1 2 3... doesn't matter.

 

[51dueller]

The wiring diagrams, I made them. I labeled them arbitrarily and drew them as how things are connected. I wrote 4 windings as there are 4 spots where wires can attach to. 3 are currently in use.

This is a single phase 240v motor. The end plates on motor housing mount the same but the windings are offset to one side so the fan side end plate won't fit the other side. There is a centrifugal switch that the two blue wires connect to.

This is why I think it spins the wrong way do to the blowers. The dust collector on the left spins the way I need to use this motor on my table saw.

This is my table saw currently. I need it to spin clockwise pulley side.

 

[dogdog]

I think it might be less confusing if you stop comparing it to your table saw. Table saw motor are the same thing, they are hardwired for direction that may or may not be the same as your dust collector, but it is for the saw balde to rotate forward toward you. . and may or may not be hardwire for dual voltage. so.... if you kept draggin in the table saw motor... its just going to confuse yourself and may or may not be everyone else . you really can't compare even if they look alike. one is specific for the table saw, the other is specific for the dust collector that have specific impeller.

the two dust collector looks different... one is exhaust on left and the other is on the right... and it dependents on your impeller I think.. as long as the air is sucked in from the center and exhaust out the outlet they are in the right rotation.

your motors are hard wired for specific direction... so only few possibilities right..

1) your motor is not original to that dust collector.
2) your dust collector impeller is not the original. some cares about it some don't. as long as it takes in air from center and exhaust out the tips right ?
3) factory mis-wire the original motor, this is highly unlikely.

as far as markings... take a look at the post #6 generic diagram of the AC motor with centrifugal switch and start cap are usually marked with Terminals 1 to 8 I think.. maybe up to 10 if you count the run cap connections (maybe) ... the winding are usually denote W1 W2 W3.. with W1 having T1 and T2 and W2 having T3 and T4 and W3 having T5 and T6... the Centrifugal switch have T7 and T8.... you can google up those Dayton motor diagrams or that other manufacture that I don't remember... they are all denote the same way.. some connections are not shown due to it is embedded into the coils like your specific duty motors like those in pic #1 of post #1 you circled in green. Not because of Asian motor of cheap motors. Its simply not needed.

 

[dogdog]

so am I reading this correct... you bought a dust collector that have the same motor as your table saw and you wanted to used that in your table saw.. but it is hardwired to rotate the opposite direction that your table saw needs ?

***Easiest is to take it to a motor rewind shop, they can probably do it for you in one day turn around. dunno the cost. but you will need to dig into those buried connections in that pic #1 circle in green.

 

[51dueller]

As the first sentence in the first post says. I bought a dust collector motor to replace the motor on my table saw. It's just that it spins the wrong way.

None of the motor places here will touch little motors and won't even look at anything asian made. The woodworking equipment dealers up here don't really keep spare parts so anything would be special ordered. I've already waited 5 months on a special nut for my edge belt sander and it's not supposed to show up till October. The price of a motor from Grizzly shipped would cost more than me buying a new dust collector and only keeping the motor. The price of a name brand motor is well over a thousand which might as well be put toward a better quality saw with a 3 hp motor.

Looking at the wire guage on the leads. Each main lead goes to 2 thicker copper wires. The centrifugal switch wire on the left goes to a single thiner copper wire.

Looking at the bundle circled in green has 5 wires. It looks like it has 4 thicker wires and 1 thinner wire.

From my understanding I would need to just separate the thin wire from the thicker wires and leave the 4 wires together.

Then make a lead from the newly separated wire to the box. Extend the other centrifugal switch wire to the box. Make a new centrifugal switch wire from the box.

This way the start/auxiliary winding is separated and can be switched in the wiring box.

Is my thinking correct here? Bar me breaking the wires.

 

[dogdog]

As the first sentence in the first post says. I bought a dust collector motor to replace the motor on my table saw. It's just that it spins the wrong way.

yes now re-reading it... you are correct. my mistake in interperting that you bought a dust collector with the motor rotating the wrong direction.

Not too sure why the motor shop you go to doesn't work on asian made motors, they are wired and function the same as any other Dayton / Baldor or smith&jones HF motors.

To reverse it, you'll probably need to read up on post#6 and identify the W3 ( aux /start winding ) and reverse the connection on it. that might or might not need to break those bundles apart and re-wire... void warranty, and probably inherit some risk of electrical shock or electrical fire.

 

[51dueller]

I'm not sure how a 20 year old motor from a brand that died in 2009 would have warranty...

I only have access to one side of the aux/start wiring. The other side I believe is in that bundle.

 

[dogdog]

Not that it is impossible, and yes you will need to break the connections of W3 that is hardwire in those bundles and reverse the connections.
and not that I don't want to help, but these days, with internet liabilities, as this thing have inherit risks.. dependents on your skills and matriculate on working with electricity. so you are on your own with risks, I am by no mean an expert or Authority on this subjects... just some guy in the garage.

I used this thread, it contains a lot of good info mostly for 120V configuration but still the same, identify cut out the W3 and reverse the connection.

Help Please ~ Wiring the Switch to the motor

Yes ... I know... there are many many posts to this question....but i find them all VERY confusing (Electrical work just escapes me) Here is my newer motor... and my switch... can someone please draw me a simple diagram with simple instructions on how to wire this dog up :~) Included are the...

www.practicalmachinist.com

 

[51dueller]

Got my shaft back today and put it back together to see which way it turns, which of course spun the wrong way. After a little bit of "surgery" and some extra wires. It now spins the way I need it and can be swapped back if needed without having to take the motor apart again. The new pulley is supposed to show up on Wednesday and once I have that I can order a new belt.