To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

240V for Tesla Charging

jeffgrice

Active member
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
37
Location
Detroit, Michigan
Hey Gang,

I am planning to purchase a Tesla. But I think getting 240 into my garage will be tough as the panel is on the opposite side of the house.

I read about these units https://www.quick220.com/ that combine 2 120 plugs to make 240.

Does anyone have experience with these or an opinion?

Thanks!

Jeff
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

velillen01

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2015
Messages
481
Location
Wyoming
I wouldnt touch one of those personally. Not for something permanent like a Tesla Charger. Especially since you would still be limited to 20amp charging.

Get an electrician out there. Even with the panel on the other side of the house they can provide a solution.
 

Walkers

Well-known member
Joined
May 17, 2021
Messages
3,912
Location
Cave Creek Az
Don’t use those. Lots of guys call them death traps, they are stupid at the very least. You won’t be able to pull the amps you want through them either.

I ran a sub panel to my garage decades ago. I just ran a conduit From the box, up the wall, drilled a hole in the sheathing, and ran the conduit across the attic, through the ceiling to a wall mounted panel. It took me an afternoon. I think I ran #6 wire in it.

Post a pic of your house if you want some ideas of getting the power there.
 
OP
J

jeffgrice

Active member
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
37
Location
Detroit, Michigan
Don’t use those. Lots of guys call them death traps, they are stupid at the very least. You won’t be able to pull the amps you want through them either.

I ran a sub panel to my garage decades ago. I just ran a conduit From the box, up the wall, drilled a hole in the sheathing, and ran the conduit across the attic, through the ceiling to a wall mounted panel. It took me an afternoon. I think I ran #6 wire in it.

Post a pic of your house if you want some ideas of getting the power there.
Hi Walkers!

I have a tri-level and the service is on the opposite side of the garage.

BUT...there is a conduit going from the panel, outside and into the garage at the opposite end of the house. Why you may ask? The original garage was remodeled to be part of the house and I added a new garage.

The conduit is a grey 2" plastic.

My concern is with the heavy gauge wire required for the Tesla charging can it be fished through 80' of conduit?

All good input - many thanks!

Jeff
 

Norcal

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
13,752
Hi Walkers!

I have a tri-level and the service is on the opposite side of the garage.

BUT...there is a conduit going from the panel, outside and into the garage at the opposite end of the house. Why you may ask? The original garage was remodeled to be part of the house and I added a new garage.

The conduit is a grey 2" plastic.

My concern is with the heavy gauge wire required for the Tesla charging can it be fished through 80' of conduit?

All good input - many thanks!

Jeff
It's done all the time.
 

wyliesdiesels

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Messages
19,983
Location
Modesto, CA
Hey Gang,

I am planning to purchase a Tesla. But I think getting 240 into my garage will be tough as the panel is on the opposite side of the house.

I read about these units https://www.quick220.com/ that combine 2 120 plugs to make 240.

Does anyone have experience with these or an opinion?

Thanks!

Jeff
Dont use one of those. Especially for high draw continuous equipment such as an EV charger...

Run a branch circuit for the charger. 80’ is nothing
 

u2slow

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Messages
3,583
Location
BC
I wouldnt touch one of those personally. Not for something permanent like a Tesla Charger. Especially since you would still be limited to 20amp charging.

Agreed... and you won't even have the full 20A available because there's stuff on those two 120V circuits already.
 

75gmck25

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 21, 2014
Messages
1,317
Location
Alexandria, VA
If the 2" conduit only has a couple of long sweep 90's or has LB's to use as pull points where it changes direction 90 degrees it should not be an issue. I had no trouble pulling 2-2-2-4 AL mobile home feeder through about 60 feet of conduit (with a long sweep 90 on each end where it came up out of the ground).

I think that for the Tesla 48 amp chargers you can use a 60 amp breaker and 6 gauge copper wire, and it should be relatively easy to pull. I know very little about the Tesla chargers, but I am assuming its considered to be a continuous load, which means you downrate your 60 amp circuit to 48 amps.

If I understand your configuration you may only need a three wire circuit (two hots and a ground), but I'm not sure if a Tesla charger needs four wires (two hots, ground and neutral) so you can separate neutral from ground. If your Tesla charger needs more than a 60 amp circuit (I think the biggest unit is 72 or 80 amps) you probably need to consider AL wiring due to cost.
 
Last edited:

Noltz

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
377
Location
Ontario, Canada
Call an electrician. They'll have the experience and tools to fish the right gauge wire through that 2" conduit. Whoever put that there did you a favor. Depending on what Tesla you want there'll be different capabilities. The newest S models can pull 72A. Most if not all can be limited to 48 if you decide to go with #6 wire.
 

jeepxj

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
17,832
i wouldnt use one for every night charging.


for airbnb stuff sure.


pull in a circuit for your every night charging.
 

jeepxj

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
17,832
If the 2" conduit only has a couple of long sweep 90's or has LB's to use as pull points where it changes direction 90 degrees it should not be an issue. I had no trouble pulling 2-2-2-4 AL mobile home feeder through about 60 feet of conduit (with a long sweep 90 on each end where it came up out of the ground).

I think that for the Tesla 48 amp chargers you can use a 60 amp breaker and 6 gauge copper wire, and it should be relatively easy to pull. I know very little about the Tesla chargers, but I am assuming its considered to be a continuous load, which means you downrate your 60 amp circuit to 48 amps.

If I understand your configuration you may only need a three wire circuit (two hots and a ground), but I'm not sure if a Tesla charger needs four wires (two hots, ground and neutral) so you can separate neutral from ground. If your Tesla charger needs more than a 60 amp circuit (I think the biggest unit is 72 or 80 amps) you probably need to consider AL wiring due to cost.

correct. 60a circuit gets your 48a charging.

48a is the max the car can take.

you need 2 hots and a ground for the HPWC
 

Denwood

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Messages
4,180
Location
Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
Hey Gang,

I am planning to purchase a Tesla. But I think getting 240 into my garage will be tough as the panel is on the opposite side of the house.

I read about these units https://www.quick220.com/ that combine 2 120 plugs to make 240.

Does anyone have experience with these or an opinion?

Thanks!

Jeff

Jeff, what is your expected daily mileage/commute with the car? If it's a short haul runner you may not even need 240V. I charge our EV 16A@120V (and we do have 240V in the shop as well) and it's fine for 99.9 % of our needs. I only charge in off peak ours, so 7pm to 7am. In the summer we only charge it a few times a week, more in winter as you'll use a lot of watts for heat in cold climates.

Since adding the 240V outlet, I've used it once for testing..that's it.

That unit you linked to just plugs into two outlets on separate sides of your panel (it won't provide 240V otherwise). However, at the 80% rule, it won't be worth it as you'll only get about 12A@ 240V usable. Using more for extended periods will exceed the design limits of a typical 15 amp circuit. Like everyone has already suggested you're better off just doing another run, or having a sub panel put in your garage with one feed.

Use this to figure out what you actually need for current/voltage : https://evcompare.io/charging-calculator/

For example, 16A@240 V will add about 25km/h of range, or about 15 miles each hour of charging to a Model 3 AWD. Most EVs are very close in efficiency in similar size classes. It is a bit more efficient to charge for less time (less time running overhead), however I prefer to go super easy on the EV pack and charge it slowly...particulary when it's in the - 10C or lower range in the garage. It's also pretty clear in the research to try and keep the lithium pack close to 50% charge for longevity. I normally stop a charge at 80% unless I'm doing a long trip. Hence the need for a ton of current may not make sense unless you actually need to add range quickly.
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

haveissues

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
379
Location
Hudson Valley NY
Jeff, what is your expected daily mileage/commute with the car? If it's a short haul runner you may not even need 240V. I charge our EV 16A@120V (and we do have 240V in the shop as well) and it's fine for 99.9 % of our needs. I only charge in off peak ours, so 7pm to 7am. In the summer we only charge it a few times a week, more in winter as you'll use a lot of watts for heat in cold climates.

Since adding the 240V outlet, I've used it once for testing..that's it.

That unit you linked to just plugs into two outlets on separate sides of your panel (it won't provide 240V otherwise). However, at the 80% rule, it won't be worth it as you'll only get about 12A@ 240V usable. Using more for extended periods will exceed the design limits of a typical 15 amp circuit. Like everyone has already suggested you're better off just doing another run, or having a sub panel put in your garage with one feed.

Use this to figure out what you actually need for current/voltage : https://evcompare.io/charging-calculator/

For example, 16A@240 V will add about 25km/h of range, or about 15 miles each hour of charging to a Model 3 AWD. Most EVs are very close in efficiency in similar size classes. It is a bit more efficient to charge for less time (less time running overhead), however I prefer to go super easy on the EV pack and charge it slowly...particulary when it's in the - 10C or lower range in the garage. It's also pretty clear in the research to try and keep the lithium pack close to 50% charge for longevity. I normally stop a charge at 80% unless I'm doing a long trip. Hence the need for a ton of current may not make sense unless you actually need to add range quickly.
Keep in mind that in most cases with EV's 120v charging is significantly less efficient than 240v. Not only does it take longer but there is a lot more loss.
 

Denwood

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 22, 2014
Messages
4,180
Location
Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada
Have, you make a good point.

It’s not less or more efficient with respect to the actual charging. The difference is the overhead the car uses to run the inverter and electronics, so there are a few more watts used overall, yes. Run that system longer, you lose more watts to overall charge "efficiency" with respect to actual watts used. For EVs like ours with low daily driving needs, charge time is low, therefore there is not much difference in charge efficiency.

There is also the factor of charge rate, heat gain to the pack, and how much power the car uses to condition the pack (cooling) in warmer climates at higher rates of charge. The data is quite clear on higher charge rates for a very cold battery pack...lower is better.

If you are preconditioning an EV outside in very cold weather, you'll get faster ramping on heat with 240V connected, vs 120V as there is more power available to run the car's HVAC system. You may actually lose a bit of pack charge (preconditioning on AC power) for a long time in a very cold car plugged into 120V. I had our EV outside for a month or so with temps dipping to -25 C and preconditioning on the 12 amp OEM EVSE (charger) at 120V *****.
 

jeepxj

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
17,832
from my understanding its about 10% less efficient to use 120 vs 240. not a life changing amount of difference.
 

rayra

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
4,724
Location
Escaped from Los Angeles
Would it be possible to piggyback on a 220 Dryer circuit - if you have one? You can schedule the car charging in the overnight and just make sure not to run the dryer in overlap.

/but Tesla and your city probably require a dedicated breaker and circuit for the EV charger.
 

jeepxj

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
17,832
Would it be possible to piggyback on a 220 Dryer circuit - if you have one? You can schedule the car charging in the overnight and just make sure not to run the dryer in overlap.

/but Tesla and your city probably require a dedicated breaker and circuit for the EV charger.


will let you do it. gives priority to the dryer.
 

rayra

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2014
Messages
4,724
Location
Escaped from Los Angeles

will let you do it. gives priority to the dryer.
That's not bad. But my dryer outlet is in a laundry room in the house, not in the garage. I can get a Tesla charger wired in for about that much, my panel is on the side of my garage and the charger installation location is 20'+ away, laterally. But the charger unit itself is $500.
I'm about 50,000th in line for a Cybertruck, so I've got about 2-3yrs to figure it out.
 

jeepxj

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
17,832
That's not bad. But my dryer outlet is in a laundry room in the house, not in the garage. I can get a Tesla charger wired in for about that much, my panel is on the side of my garage and the charger installation location is 20'+ away, laterally. But the charger unit itself is $500.
I'm about 50,000th in line for a Cybertruck, so I've got about 2-3yrs to figure it out.

the mobile charger works great for the current lineup. its only 32a however.

with a 200kwh battery in the cyber truck. 32a/240 - 7.6kw charging. giving an empty to full time of 26 hours.

with the HPWC only allowing 48a thats 11.5kw. 17.5 hours empty to full time.
 

RonnieC

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 7, 2013
Messages
790
Location
Orlando, FL
We had a 220 installed in the garage and used the mobile power cord. My understanding is that the Tesla charger has no brains inside- all charging know-how is within the car.
 

justsam

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
1,267
Location
Penngrove, California
Tesla call their's "mobile Connector", or "Wall Connector" for a reason, they do not provide any "charging" function other than a connection. Others are the same.
 

jeepxj

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
17,832
We had a 220 installed in the garage and used the mobile power cord. My understanding is that the Tesla charger has no brains inside- all charging know-how is within the car.

the wall connector mobile or high power wall connector simply know what amperage they can provide. and a contactor. thats all it really is. you can DIY your own with an arduino and HVAC contactor.

but most people call it the "charger". i dont fault them. its easy to understand what they mean.
 
OP
J

jeffgrice

Active member
Joined
Feb 10, 2006
Messages
37
Location
Detroit, Michigan
Thanks everyone for your advice.

I connected with an Electrician who has done Tesla stations and we met this week. He has a good plan to get the proper wire from one end of our tri-level to waaaaaaay on the other side to the garage.

Take care,

Jeff
 

kaffine

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 13, 2009
Messages
3,610
Location
Henderson, NV
If the 2" conduit only has a couple of long sweep 90's or has LB's to use as pull points where it changes direction 90 degrees it should not be an issue. I had no trouble pulling 2-2-2-4 AL mobile home feeder through about 60 feet of conduit (with a long sweep 90 on each end where it came up out of the ground).

I think that for the Tesla 48 amp chargers you can use a 60 amp breaker and 6 gauge copper wire, and it should be relatively easy to pull. I know very little about the Tesla chargers, but I am assuming its considered to be a continuous load, which means you downrate your 60 amp circuit to 48 amps.

If I understand your configuration you may only need a three wire circuit (two hots and a ground), but I'm not sure if a Tesla charger needs four wires (two hots, ground and neutral) so you can separate neutral from ground. If your Tesla charger needs more than a 60 amp circuit (I think the biggest unit is 72 or 80 amps) you probably need to consider AL wiring due to cost.

Tesla wall connectors require copper wiring, the terminals are not rated for aluminum. Of course you could do aluminum wire to a subpanel or disconnect then a short piece of copper from there to the wall connector.
 

jeepxj

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
17,832
Tesla wall connectors require copper wiring, the terminals are not rated for aluminum. Of course you could do aluminum wire to a subpanel or disconnect then a short piece of copper from there to the wall connector.

I know it was a pain in the **** to wire mine up. can't imagine putting Al in there.


but you can do something like. AL rated pin crimps
1644768316751.png
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom