24x24 wiring help

[seths1985]

so i just got up the pole barn, by no means am i an electrician at all, but i do like to DIY. From the house im gonna run a 2-2-2-4 direct bury line to the barn with a 100 amp sub panel. I would like to have 1 or 2 220's for air compressor and welder. Other than that i just want good lighting and plenty of outlets, im thinking 4 outlets on every wall except the garage door wall where i only need 1 for the overhead door opener.
SO a total of 13 120v outlets for general purposes and garage door opener
1 or 2 220 for welder and compressor
and lighting is what i need help on, its gonna be finished on the inside eventually with white metal siding to help brighten it up.
Suggestions would be helpful
Thanks

 

[pattenp]

I don't know what you know or don't know so I'm going to shoot a couple things by you. You say you're using 2-2-2-4, if aluminum it's limited to 90A. Do you know that all 2-2-2-4 is not created equal, some can be installed inside where some cannot. If using MHF it can go inside but needs to be in conduit. If using Quadruplex URD it needs to be terminated outside. Also what's the distance to the barn?

The most common lighting solution is to use F32T8 fluorescent fixtures. I suggest at least 100LU per sqft. A single F32T8 lamp is about 2700LU.

 

[seths1985]

80-90 feet to the barn from the panel, where i live im not subject to inspection but still want it safe obviously. And do i didnt know that about the wire at all, thanks for letting me know about that, and my barn is only 576 square feet so that means i would need 21 of those lights!!??

 

[pattenp]

That would be 21 single 4ft F32T8 lamps or 5 of the 8ft 4 lamp fixtures. I hope you weren't thinking 21 fixtures. 4 of the 8ft 4 lamp T8 fixtures will probably do. You could also do 8 to 10 of the 4ft 2 lamp F32T8 fixtures.

For the 80-90 ft run the 2-2-2-4 will be good for the 90A max. I also suggest you use Mobile Home Feeder (MHF). It has the proper fire rated insulation that allows it to be run inside a structure. But the MHF does need to be in conduit where exposed above ground and where inside the structure.

80-90 feet to the barn from the panel, where i live im not subject to inspection but still want it safe obviously. And do i didnt know that about the wire at all, thanks for letting me know about that, and my barn is only 576 square feet so that means i would need 21 of those lights!!??

 

[seths1985]

Copy, thanks for clarification man!

 

[seths1985]

Ok got another question, while i was outside today i seen below my meter, there is a disconnect box , 200 amp breaker in it and open spots for more. Can i run from this disconnect box to my barn with the 2-2-2-4? i dont plan on conduit, just burying it except for where it comes out of the ground. I just dont want to screw anything up in the house since this disconnect is in line before the panel in my house, Soooo.... is it possible to run my 100 amp sub panel to the garage directly from the disconnect under the meter outside? and what wire suggestions for direct bury since its not going into the panel in my house,
Thanks

 

[pattenp]

Sounds like you can go from there but without seeing the box it's a guess. You'd still be looking at using Mobile Home Feeder, and where it's exposed above ground and inside the barn it will need to be in conduit. The only other wire option is to use Quadruplex URD with a transition in a junction box to SER going inside the barn. The SER in the barn would not need to be in conduit unless it's exposed to possible damage.

 

[seths1985]

so if i run the 2-2-2-4 mobile home feeder, is it ok to buy 100 amp breakers? and do they need to be 2 pole or 3 pole? sorry for all the questions but my electrician guy thats helping me is out of town

 

[pattenp]

The #2 MHF can have a max of 90 amp feeding breaker. The breaker is a double (2) pole. There is no problem using a 100A main breaker panel on a 90A feed. The 100A main breaker acts only as a disconnect. If you want a full 100A to the barn the next size up in the MHF is 2/0-2/0-2/0-1. You may want to see it you can get #1 aluminum RHH/RHW for a full 100A.

 

[seths1985]

thanks for that info, going to buy the stuff today, there selling me 2-2-2-4 URD, the guy said it was pretty much the same as mobile home feeder

 

[Charles (in GA)]

thanks for that info, going to buy the stuff today, there selling me 2-2-2-4 URD, the guy said it was pretty much the same as mobile home feeder

No, its not. As already noted, you cannot take it inside a building. Feeding from the panel outside the house is a simple thing and the URD is OK, but when you get to the outbuilding, you will have to terminate the URD outside in a junction box or disconnect, and then run something else inside the building to the panel. Even if the panel is JUST INSIDE the wall where the wire goes in, URD cannot go in the panel, it must stay outside the building. Code is quite clear on this.

Charles

 

[pattenp]

Charles, I hope seths1985 saw your post in time. I wonder if it was one of those big box experts that told him URD was kind of like MHF?

 

[seths1985]

Well that *****, of course i already bought the stuff, and yes it was a big box "expert". Where i am located i have no code to follow, but safety is #1, seems like everyone i have talked to about mobile home feeder look at me like im crazy, even Loeb electric which is big around here. is mobile home feeder called something else? or can i get by with what i have safely? thanks guys, very much appreciate all the help

 

[pattenp]

Mobile Home Feeder is the name. Where are you located? You can get individual aluminum wire that's rated RHH/RHW/USE-2 and bundle it yourself.
Here's MHF...
http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet15

http://www.cerroretail.com/electric...um/mobile-home-feeder/?url=mobile-home-feeder

Here's RHH RHW USE-2...
http://www.southwire.com/ProductCatalog/XTEInterfaceServlet?contentKey=prodcatsheet12

 

[pattenp]

Oh.. for got to give my opinion on safety of the URD inside. If you got URD the rating printed on the wire should just list USE-2. USE-2 only rated insulation is not fire resistant and not aproved by the NEC to be installed inside. The issue is if there is an electrical fire then the insulation won't spread the fire. Your house or pole barn burning down because of the URD is about one in a billion. I wouldn't lose sleep using it.

 

[seths1985]

Gotcha, also the home depot "expert" said i can tie in to my disconnect breaker outside near the meter, as in pu thefeed to thehouse and feed to the pole barn together, sound good? Heres a picture of what im talking about

 

[Charles (in GA)]

The lugs on the bottom of the bars are really twisted! people won't take the time to form them so they don't load the connections with side forces.......

Yes, slap a 90 amp breaker in place and connect a conduit on the bottom and off you go. Ideal situation actually.

Charles

 

[pattenp]

Since the URD will be terminated in the outside panel there is no issue on that end. The noncompliant end will be where the URD runs into the pole barn, but if you don't mind it not being to the letter of the NEC then go for it.

 

[seths1985]

im gonna just go for it, the home depot guy said i didnt need a 90 amp breaker in the picture above, he told me to tie it down to that 200 amp that the house is connected to as you see in the picture. where did he come up with that one??

 

[seths1985]

by the way thank you guys for all the help, im no electrician, just like to try to do stuff myself, i wont be touching that box above though!

 

[seths1985]

just out of curiosity why do i need the 4th wire? (ground). couldnt i have just ran the 2 hot lines and the neutral out to the barn and then ground outside? had me thinking

 

[Kevin54]

I have a question, and it may sound dumb to most, but if there is a breaker below your meter box, and it has a disconnect, if the wire is buried underground, going to a disconnect, going to a meter, then going to the house panel.........if he ties off of the breaker below the meter and runs to the garage, wouldn't that be bypassing the meter completely and running direct off of the power company?

Or am I missing something completely?