27x19 Lighting and Electrical Upgrades (ATTN: Platonic Solid)

[garagelogician]

I have an attached compact 3-car garage. Basic footprint is about 27x19. Ceilings are about 10'-5".

Walls seem to be (mostly?) insulated, but I don't know about the ceiling with the exception of the part where the upstairs bedrooms cantilever over the garage about 4-5 ft. Garage is fully sheetrocked with textured ceiling and two light bulbs near the one side that currently have 100w equivalent LED bulbs. There is one outlet on the wall, and one on the ceiling for the overhead garage door opener.

Needless to say, this does not cut it for my needs. I do repair/maintenance work on my personal vehicles, as well as other misc. projects with some possible woodworking. Primary woodworking space is planned for a 12x16 shed out back, but certain projects may outgrow that space, so they may have to move into the garage.

I have plans to setup some folding/mobile workbenches and will have other items on wheels to make the small space as flexible as possible. I plan to purchase a 4-post lift. It will sit in the 3rd bay (to the right) and will likely store a small utility trailer when not being used for automotive work. The lift will stay there for oil changes or other work when I don't need to have much access to the right side of the vehicle, but it will be moved to the center of the garage for bigger projects.

Garage doors will be converted to high lift tracks mounted as close to the ceiling as possible, with jackshaft openers.

First priority is getting more outlets installed, I will run a subpanel to the garage so that I can add circuits as needed. I plan to eventually install a mini-split A/C, and will need 240v for a compressor and maybe a welder. I am pretty green with electrical work, so I would likely hire this out or get some help from someone more knowledgeable until I learn more.

Is it worthwhile to rip out drywall and mess with the insulation to install wiring? Or should I just surface mount everything and run EMT? I'm not opposed to surface mounting, I would probably just run it up high and then make drops to the outlets. I will likely only have a few wall-mounted cabinets in certain areas, so that should work fine.

With regards to lighting, I was considering the slim surface mount LED flat panel lights that have the integrated drivers for easier installation (and to not give up any ceiling height for the lift) like these. However, I don't believe the cost and the added hassle of snaking wires to be worthwhile.

Instead, I am now considering the MaxLite 4-ft 2 bulb fixtures with 4,000K LED tubes placed in such a way that they won't interfere with the two planned lift positions. Can I just run surface mount conduit to these units?

I see the bulbs listed in the "Best Light Fixture Ever" thread, but I would like to have the capability to add dimmers and/or motion sensors. Are there any comparable bulbs that are dimmable, and compatible with a dimmer/motion sensor like this?

Garage layout is attached, approximate planned light locations are shown in red. I need to evaluate the right side light locations more with the garage track, but don't have the time for it right now.

Thoughts/advice?

 

[garagelogician]

Okay...more specific question...

I spoke with a garage door installer about high lift conversions and jackshaft openers, he anticipates being able to get the bottom of the tracks within 6" of the ceiling...which probably won't leave enough room for T8 LED strip lights in a few locations.

If I do flat panels in those locations, but still opt to run surface mount EMT, can I mount old work boxes and run MC cable in the joist bay (right above the drywall) to each flat panel fixture?

In other words...run EMT from the switch, along one side of the garage to the line of fixtures. Transition to MC in a junction box, then fish that on top of the drywall between (and parallel to) the ceiling joists to the light locations where I will install junction boxes.

I know it technically probably isn't to code, but is there any big problem with it? Any other way to wire flat panels with surface mount wiring? There is no attic access, and presence/type of insulation is unknown at this point.

 

[Platonic Solid]

The Lumegen surface mount kit (link) is only 2.5" deep @ $24. Add a $40 40W 5000 Lumen flat panel (link) and you're @ $64 total for 5000 Lumens and enough space to run your EMT through the side. The Commercial Electric fixture is 1" deep $109 50W 4000lm. Is the 1.5" difference worth $45 + less efficiency + less lumens + more installation hassle? I'm not a sparky so I'll leave that area to the members here that are.

 

[garagelogician]

The Lumegen surface mount kit (link) is only 2.5" deep @ $24. Add a $40 40W 5000 Lumen flat panel (link) and you're @ $64 total for 5000 Lumens and enough space to run your EMT through the side. The Commercial Electric fixture is 1" deep $109 50W 4000lm. Is the 1.5" difference worth $45 + less efficiency + less lumens + more installation hassle? I'm not a sparky so I'll leave that area to the members here that are.

Thanks for the reply. I will have to measure when I get home, but the door may still interfere with that surface mount kit option. Looks like I may need to wait on lighting that portion of the garage until I get the high lifts installed and see how much clearance I will actually have.

Any opinions on layout or fixture quantity? Is it worthwhile to have lights placed close to the wall? Walls are a very light cream color right now, will change in the future to a very light gray.

I'm just going to be doing mechanical work, and I don't want this thing lit up like an operating room, but I want a decent amount of even light.

 

[MoonRise]

I'm just going to be doing mechanical work, and I don't want this thing lit up like an operating room, but I want a decent amount of even light.

If you are doing 'precision' mechanical work (wood, metal, vehicles, whatever), then you pretty much DO want it lit up almost like an operating room.

Evenly distributed and no glare, and shoot for about 100-150 lumens / square foot of light.

In one section of my basement, in about a 12x12 space (so about 144 sq ft, let's call it 150 sq ft for rough numbers in the calculations), I have 3 2x4 ft fluorescent 4-bulb T8 fixtures. So 12 4 ft T8 86 CRI daylight fluorescent tubes, each at about 2000 lumens usable output (accounting for fixture efficiency loss through the plastic 'lens'), for about 24,000 total lumens.

24,000 lumens / 150 sq ft = 160 lumens/ sq ft.

No, it is not too bright. And I still have localized task lighting as well. And have mulled sticking another 4-tube fixture in there as well.

YMMV.

 

[Lelandwelds]

If you are doing 'precision' mechanical work (wood, metal, vehicles, whatever), then you pretty much DO want it lit up almost like an operating room.

Evenly distributed and no glare, and shoot for about 100-150 lumens / square foot of light.

In one section of my basement, in about a 12x12 space (so about 144 sq ft, let's call it 150 sq ft for rough numbers in the calculations), I have 3 2x4 ft fluorescent 4-bulb T8 fixtures. So 12 4 ft T8 86 CRI daylight fluorescent tubes, each at about 2000 lumens usable output (accounting for fixture efficiency loss through the plastic 'lens'), for about 24,000 total lumens.

24,000 lumens / 150 sq ft = 160 lumens/ sq ft.

No, it is not too bright. And I still have localized task lighting as well. And have mulled sticking another 4-tube fixture in there as well.

YMMV.

That's not very brite is it? I have an LED flashlight that puts 1100 lumen OTF. If I shine that on a 3 ft square, it isnt bright enough for me.

Am I getting lumens and CP confused? Or, are my eyes just aged and decrepit?

 

[cybrdyke]

Evenly distributed and no glare, and shoot for about 100-150 lumens / square foot of light.

In one section of my basement, in about a 12x12 space (so about 144 sq ft, let's call it 150 sq ft for rough numbers in the calculations), I have 3 2x4 ft fluorescent 4-bulb T8 fixtures. So 12 4 ft T8 86 CRI daylight fluorescent tubes, each at about 2000 lumens usable output (accounting for fixture efficiency loss through the plastic 'lens'), for about 24,000 total lumens.

24,000 lumens / 150 sq ft = 160 lumens/ sq ft.

We see this alot on this forum, where folks mistakenly think that you can equate the stated lumens from a light source and divide it by the square footage in a space. Fixture lumens per square foot is not a valid formula in the lighting world. Just doesn't work that way.

That's not very brite is it? I have an LED flashlight that puts 1100 lumen OTF. If I shine that on a 3 ft square, it isnt bright enough for me.

Am I getting lumens and CP confused? Or, are my eyes just aged and decrepit?

Yes, you're old & decrepit.
A lot of techno goo:
Lumens are a unit of light created by a source. Candela is a unit of light intensity at any given angle. (CP isn't used anymore. The new term is candela). An LED can emit 1100 lumens, but how many of them go in the direction your flashlight wants them to go?
CD