2nd floor support

[motorcarmike]

Hey all,

I am building an are for a woodworking shop above my 25x40 garage. The trusses are made from mill cut 2x6 spaced 24"OC. The floor up there is 1" thick boards.

Currently there are no supporting posts in the lower shop supporting the center of the upper floor. I am a bit concerned about adding the weight of several woodworking machines to the upstairs.

Does anyone have photos of how they added support to a second floor? Even if they added a beam and a post?

Thanks very much!
Mike

 

[Kaizen]

Yeah I wouldn't put much up there without a metal beam running under the existing joists and probably some additional joists with blocking. might help if you describe more like is it 24 deep or wide and which way is the structure set up now? with the weight of tools and lumber personally I'd get it specked by an engineer to get the right sized beam.

 

[Cyberbear]

You will no doubt need to explore the load carrying capacity of 2 x 6 @ 24" o/c, then see what size underneath header is required to support the load of the floor above. I'm not aware of what a 2 x 6 can carry spanning 12'-6" @ 24" o/c, but a 2 x 6 is not very much for a high dead load. Check with your local building dept. to get some pointers. You can decide later what to do from there on.

 

[volleyball]

I got a trussed floor. Going to put some unspecified weight up there. I need the exact size of support needed.
There is no way anyone can give you reliable information. Not without any reliable input.
If you have the floors design plans, you can see what it is rated for. then figure what weight and location you want to put the equipment. Don't forget where you are going to store the wood. It can get heavier than the machines.

 

[motorcarmike]

Right but what im looking for are photos of beam setups in garages.

I cant put a beam end to end so i want to put in a shorter beam that will span the center where most of the weight will be. like a 15' beam in the middle of the 35' span with two upright posts.

does this make sense?

 

[volleyball]

Once you find the specs, you can then determine what you want or need. Maybe a couple of new floor trusses between existing will solve your problem. Which you don't even know you have.
Having people upload picture of random beams and columns seems a waste of time.

 

[motorcarmike]

I do not have any sort of plans or designs or engineered anything to go off of. The garage is older construction made from mill cut lumber from who knows what kind of tree.

The information I have provided is all I have to go from also and the trusses upstairs are not an engineered item. They are just 2x6 with gussets here and there.

I am not a contractor or a professional builder but I assumed that I would not be the first person to have this situation come up. I was hoping to see others solutions to this problem and what they had done, like installing a beam or something...

If everyone had engineered drawings and load rating charts with their building plans available, they probably wouldn't be asking questions like this on a forum....I never asked for specific dimensions on what I need. I just asked to see what others have done....unless im the only one who has a two level garage...

Thanks,

 

[RVDan]

You'll need a 3 ply 2x10 beam supported by posts no greater than 11'6"

But 2x6 floor joists on 24" centers won't cut it anywhere in the civilized world. 2x8 on 16" will go to 12'4" with glued subfloor and strapping.

 

[motorcarmike]

I was hoping on using steel I beam

 

[RVDan]

You can use steel, I don't have charts for steel though.

Still, you can't get away with 2x6 as floor joist unless your span becomes ridiculously short.

 

[volleyball]

Hey all,

I am building an are for a woodworking shop above my 25x40 garage. The trusses are made from mill cut 2x6 spaced 24"OC. The floor up there is 1" thick boards.

But 2x6 floor joists on 24" centers won't cut it anywhere in the civilized world. 2x8 on 16" will go to 12'4" with glued subfloor and strapping.

The OP has 2x6 trusses, not joists or is stating the wrong term.
I don't know of any place that sells 24' 2x6's.
I think we need a picture.
I would like to know if there is blocking? I would expect 2 or 3 sets.

 

[bczygan]

I was hoping on using steel I beam

You still haven't given any information that can be used to determine what you need.

Are the 2x6's actual 2x6? Do they span the entire 25 foot dimension? What is the depth and load bearing capacity of the trusses? Are they shop made?

What are the weights and locations of the machines going to be?

Without this, no solutions are possible. We also need photos.

Do you understand?

 

[AndyCBR]

Based on what you are asking and what you think you have I would encourage you to seek out a civil engineer for help.

You don't have to spend thousands for a site visit/consult and some calculations.

 

[motorcarmike]

heres some photos. yes they are actually 2"x6" some are 2-1/2"

as far as i know they are joined in the center with gussets.

these were made on site one by one, not engineered.

I can instal a steel beam below.

i want to make 5' walls either side, remove the center posts and install cross ties just below the peak.

 

[bczygan]

OK,
You are showing us the rafters.

What are the ceiling joists?

 

[motorcarmike]

OK,
You are showing us the rafters.

What are the ceiling joists?

2x6 mill cut. same as in photos...they are under the board flooring.

 

[bczygan]

2x6 mill cut. same as in photos...they are under the board flooring.

OK,
Based on what you've shown us, you have what I call truss shaped structure.

There is no easy way to determine the strength of the "truss" without some engineering time. So I would treat it as if it were joists and rafters. And if you intend to remove any of the vertical members running down the middle of the space, you are turning it from a trussed assembly into joists and rafters anyway. Furthermore, without identifying the wood species and strength, I would not give those members credit for being oversize, and would calculate them based on standard dimensional 2x6 hem-fir. Here again, an engineer can be more accurate and give them more credit. A 1" plank floor is heavier than 3/4" OSB underlayment, so that has to be taken into account.

So you have 2 problems to solve.

One is making sure the structure will be adequate for an occupied space when you remove the vertical members and the other is making sure the point loads of the machinery are properly supported.

Will the machines move around or be fixed? If fixed, you can add just the structure needed to support those point loads. If not, you have to make sure the entire floor system can support those point loads wherever they might occur.

In either case, 2x6's at 24"o.cl. won't span anywhere near 25'. Check some online span tables.

And you will still need to know machinery weights and placements.

What is your headroom in the garage below? Is there a finished ceiling? Again, photos help.

Oh, and how long have those trusses and plank floor been in place? Are they thoroughly dry?

You can do what you want. The only question is what additional structure is required and what will it cost. That's where a good engineer comes in. He can figure what you have and what you need, accurately. That will save you money by not over-sizing.

So the big questions are, do you want clear span space below (No columns), and what is the minimum headroom you require?

Bill

 

[motorcarmike]

OK,
Based on what you've shown us, you have what I call truss shaped structure.

There is no easy way to determine the strength of the "truss" without some engineering time. So I would treat it as if it were joists and rafters. And if you intend to remove any of the vertical members running down the middle of the space, you are turning it from a trussed assembly into joists and rafters anyway. Furthermore, without identifying the wood species and strength, I would not give those members credit for being oversize, and would calculate them based on standard dimensional 2x6 hem-fir. Here again, an engineer can be more accurate and give them more credit. A 1" plank floor is heavier than 3/4" OSB underlayment, so that has to be taken into account.

So you have 2 problems to solve.

One is making sure the structure will be adequate for an occupied space when you remove the vertical members and the other is making sure the point loads of the machinery are properly supported.

Will the machines move around or be fixed? If fixed, you can add just the structure needed to support those point loads. If not, you have to make sure the entire floor system can support those point loads wherever they might occur.

In either case, 2x6's at 24"o.cl. won't span anywhere near 25'. Check some online span tables.

And you will still need to know machinery weights and placements.

What is your headroom in the garage below? Is there a finished ceiling? Again, photos help.

Oh, and how long have those trusses and plank floor been in place? Are they thoroughly dry?

You can do what you want. The only question is what additional structure is required and what will it cost. That's where a good engineer comes in. He can figure what you have and what you need, accurately. That will save you money by not over-sizing.

So the big questions are, do you want clear span space below (No columns), and what is the minimum headroom you require?

Bill

theres no support beams below. its an open shop. not sure how old the building is but all the wood is very dry. Headroom downstairs is 124". ill probably have to put posts downstairs.

 

[bczygan]

theres no support beams below. its an open shop. not sure how old the building is but all the wood is very dry. Headroom downstairs is 124". ill probably have to put posts downstairs.

That really depends.

To minimize the intrusion into the headroom downstairs, you can locate where the machines are going upstairs and provide support for them with new members that run parallel to the existing ceiling joists.

Removing the center supports upstairs is more problematic. But even here, instead of dropping a steel beam under the existing joists, you can cut the joists and hang them off each side of the new beam. If you do this, the members mentioned above would also have to **** into this steel beam and hang from it.

You are probably going to have to look at the gusset plates at the rafters too.

This needs structural engineering. There is no way around it. You will have no way to know the most efficient and economical materials and methods until you get that.

And you still need to decide what possible machinery you will have, and whether it will be in set positions, or can move around or change position over time.

Understand?

Bill

 

[volleyball]

That is not a truss system. And even those there are boards up there, that is not a floor you can use. Upstairs, those vertical members in the center is what is holding up the 2x6's. It has cut the span in half. Do not remove with existing structure.
So now we know you don't have an upstairs right now.
So how much do you want to put up there? 1 ton of stuff? 5 tons?
What about insulation? That place must get hot or cold quickly. I would not want to be up there in the summer.
That building isn't that old. Did you check with the jurisdiction you are in for the original permit? That may answer a lot of questions.

 

[kbs2244]

Before you worry about the floor you need to worry about the roof.
You have no ridge support for the rafters except the verticals of the center wall.
That center wall is what holds up the roof.
If you remove that wall without a support down the center you will spread the walls out and have a roof collapse.
You should have a support pillar at the center point of the downstairs (just to the left of your door)
You need to continue it up to the roof ridge at both ends and support the rafters down the center.
Then you can do the same with a beam from front to back to support the floor.
And then remover the upstairs center wall.

 

[motorcarmike]

Ok, so i will be installing a 9" steel I beam down the length of the shop which will support all the joists on the upper floor. There will be a post in the lower shop right in the center.

for upstairs, i am going to remove some of the uprights in the center and cut them just below the top gusset and install a laminated beam that will catch the load from the ridge and transfer it to the steel beam below.

I will leave 5 or 6 of the uprights in the center upstairs and have cabinets on the center wall. with open work areas each end.

I will place the heaviest machines over where the steel beam is.

this sound better?

FYI for machines.

18" planer
jointer
drill press
older beaver table saw
2 smaller lathes
work bench

 

[matt_i]

It sounds a little iffy unless you are using metric steel. I'm not trying to pile on but there is no such "9 inch I-beam" in either S- or W- shapes...

Whatever size beam is going to be used, you also need to think about supports, they are columns and are sized subject to buckling, and need foundational support also underneath. In other words, not very good to put a column directly on an existing concrete floor and then have it crack right there due to the point load.