2x4 Ceiling joists

[RNCARPENTER]

I am trying to fix up my apartment to get it ready to rent. My house was built in the mid 1800's. I have done a lot fixing to the place since I purchased it 3 years ago. My upstairs apartment has sagging ceilings. The lath and plaster seems to be attached to the 2x4 joists pretty well so i do not want to remove it. But I would like to stiffen the 2x4's in the attic to straighten and strengthen them. Is there any way to do this without removing the plaster and lath? Before I realized the issues with the ceiling I had new carpets installed I would really like to keep them new...

 

[Jazz]

Have you considered sistering a 2x4 or even 2x6 to the existing joists?

 

[#1SomeGuy]

Well you can always lay down tarps over the carpet and then some plywood sheets to prevent impact damage.

I can't think of a way of doing it without dropping the ceiling though.

Have you considered sistering a 2x4 or even 2x6 to the existing joists?

To sister you'd have to either drop the ceiling so the sistered 2x4's were level, or you'd have to jack the existing stuff up and levl it.

 

[RNCARPENTER]

Well I have new electric running through the 2x4 already. But I could just remove that I guess as it is not tied together yet. I have also been replacing all the knob and tube wiring. Thank you for the quick replies. I guess my best bet probably is to sister in in 2x6's. The new furnace I had installed for the upstairs apartment is in the attic unfortunately so it has made the sag worse in the living room area.

 

[HoosierMark]

Not an engineer but could you push the ceilings up from the second floor and install braces to the rafters? For people to give you possible options, you need to give length and width, where walls are etc. The question is the safety issue. Is it really a problem or just an appearance issue. If it is only appearance, having owned rental property for 35 plus years, I can tell you the tenants will understand it is an old house and would prefer to have $25 lower rent then a great ceiling. (well mine would)

 

[kbs2244]

Your problem is going to be the current sag.
It has taken 200 years o get where it is.
You are not going to straighten it out over night.
Things will crack and break if you try.

I would bite the bullet and take down the lath and plaster.
Or lower the rent and leave it as is.
It adds “character.”

 

[leadfootloon]

There is no way you can pull out the sag without plaster falling off in a big way. My house was built in 1900 and I have done a lot of remodels as well on house's from that area. The best way will be to pull the plaster down slowly jack the ceiling back into place and sister some 2x6's along the old 2x4's and rerock the ceiling. The lath can stay just drywall over it if you can work on ceiling from above and it's not in your way.

 

[tcianci]

Any effort to straighten the existing ceiling will be a mess and nearly futile. As has been posted, the existing ceiling joists have taken a set over decades and even with removing the plaster, jacking them and attempting to sister them is going to take a lot of work and will be highly loading the new joists, accelerating the sag of the new joists.

You may do well to either frame a new ceiling just below the existing (lots of older houses have ceilings that are nearly 9 feet or so) or determine how much in the way of shims you may need to add to the existing ceiling so that you can rock over it and have it flat. In either case, you wont have to remove what's there and you can make a pretty quick job of it. If you decide to shim and re-board the existing ceiling, use 3/8 sheet rock, it will add minimal weight to what's up there already.

 

[RNCARPENTER]

OK thank you everyone for your advice but I did a bit more inspection and found that it was one joist that was actually split in the middle due to a knot in the wood. I took two of the original 2x4's (that I had saved) from a previous fix and sistered them to both sides of the broken 2 by. I jacked from below to straighten the joist and screwed them in. Thankfully it appears that all the plaster and lath stayed in place due because there was already sheet rock over the lath and plaster. So far everything is staying in place.

 

[leadfootloon]

Good to hear it all worked out in the positive for you. You got lucky it was already rocked wish I would of new that my first response would of been totally different. Keep up the good work.

 

[Higgins]

RNC

With the house being that old, it's called Character!

If you are determined to do anything, I would stabilized it. With that said, ANY movement will cause the lath to move, and the plaster crack, and possibly fall down!

1. If anything, I would sister a 2X6 along side the old 2x4 to add some structural strength to it! Do not try and straighten up the existing 2x4!!!
2. Do not nail the sistered member. Use 3 or 4" cabinet screws to secure the two members! Don't try DW screws, as they will snap in the old petrified 2x4's as nailing will fracture the plaster ceiling and it will be coming down!!
3. To minimize any more plaster from either fracturing or becoming loose . Use a drywall lift with a sheet of plywood and lift it up to the ceiling and just snug it up
4. And take your time!!!!
5. After your finished, you can get one of those plaster repair kits and skimcoat the ceiling to freshen it up! Do not use DW topping.............

AL

 

[Nicholas]

Don't leave the sistering to screws. It needs to be nailed together. The shear value of a nail is much greater than a screw. Don't hand nail it you will vibrate the joist and crack the plaster. Rent or borrow a gun nailer and shoot it together.