karoc
Well-known member
Guys can a lot be gain going with 2x6 walls vs 2x4 ext walls? Giving it some thought to justify the added expense as far as insulation concern. Yea I would love spray foam but that’s out of this poor mans budget
2x4 or 2x6 Ext Walls?
- Thread starter karoc
- Start date
dmcintosh
Well-known member
2x6 vs 2x4 garage walls
I’m ordering windows for my garage. Is it worth paying extra for 2x6 walls vs 2x4 walls? They will be 10ft tall. I’m only going to intermittently heat it. So I will probably heat it only when I go out there to work so a few hours.
www.garagejournal.com
There is another thread about this exact topic. Might want to check it out for an answer.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
In cold climates, a 2x6 is necessary to achieve insulation requirements. Not sure how cold it gets where you are, but for most of Texas, I bet you would see less of a return on the added cost.
Strength is something else to consider. Single story or multiple? What's the wall height?
Personally, if I was building something bigger than a shed that will have any HVAC, I would probably be doing 2x6
Strength is something else to consider. Single story or multiple? What's the wall height?
Personally, if I was building something bigger than a shed that will have any HVAC, I would probably be doing 2x6
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Depends on your jurisdiction and code requirements. Most jurisdictions now have thermal requirements, and you can only meet those with 2X6 walls. But then there are different thermal requirements for attached versus detached. Me, I'd look at resale value. Maybe you don't want to expense 2X6 studs and thick insulation. Person that is looking to buy the place might have a different opinion on working in a shop with poor insulation.
I want to kill the guy that built the 2X4 framed shop I now occupy. He did it for no reason other than low cost.
I want to kill the guy that built the 2X4 framed shop I now occupy. He did it for no reason other than low cost.
billconner
Well-known member
I like the added stiffness in plan for long walls. Just seems the 2x6 top plates help. Would depend on sheathing also, but I'm using board and batten, so not much help there.
Leaflessshadetree
Well-known member
Depending on height.
BTW: You can get the same thickness using staggered 2x4 studs. Insulating properties better than 2x6s due to reduced thermal bridging.
There aren't many builders that understand or will do it. It does throw off the stud spacing for attaching drywall or sheathing.
BTW: You can get the same thickness using staggered 2x4 studs. Insulating properties better than 2x6s due to reduced thermal bridging.
There aren't many builders that understand or will do it. It does throw off the stud spacing for attaching drywall or sheathing.
matt_i
Well-known member
All about R-value if you asked me. If you intend to heat or cool I'd roll with the 2x6 and not look back.
You can always easily insulate later but you can't frame it differently later (very easily).
I don't think you need spray foam, if you build tight stud cavities and go back and caulk you're there.
You can always easily insulate later but you can't frame it differently later (very easily).
I don't think you need spray foam, if you build tight stud cavities and go back and caulk you're there.
I used 2x6 in my addition and put R19 in the walls. I have heated it for one winter and I think hands down it was a very worthwhile investment.
I used R19 in the ceiling and covered it with 3/4" polyiso. That was covered with rubbed metal.
The exterior walls are sheathed with Zip sheathing. OSB and plywood skyrockted but Zip pricing never went up at the time. It cost me $2-3 more/sheet. Granted I had to buy the tape but doggone, it made me a believer.
You're not spending more money, you're investing it. Every time you turn on the heat or AC, you're getting a return on your investment.
I used R19 in the ceiling and covered it with 3/4" polyiso. That was covered with rubbed metal.
The exterior walls are sheathed with Zip sheathing. OSB and plywood skyrockted but Zip pricing never went up at the time. It cost me $2-3 more/sheet. Granted I had to buy the tape but doggone, it made me a believer.
You're not spending more money, you're investing it. Every time you turn on the heat or AC, you're getting a return on your investment.
tstaude
Well-known member
Go 2x6, keep it 16" OC, you will have no regrets.
the cost difference should be minimal
the cost difference should be minimal
MerlinsBeard
Well-known member
I've been mulling whether for insulation sake whether to do something with the 2x4 rafters in the ceiling to extend them for insulation. I have 2x4" wall studs on 16" OC and don't have second thoughts about that decision, but wonder if I should have gone 2x6" for ceiling.
At minimum, I was looking at 2" polyiso in the ceiling with 1 1/2" gap for ventilation, but that's not ideal if I decide to add HVAC. Still trying to figure out what I want to do.
At minimum, I was looking at 2" polyiso in the ceiling with 1 1/2" gap for ventilation, but that's not ideal if I decide to add HVAC. Still trying to figure out what I want to do.
ludakris04
Well-known member
Our house is 2x4... a few houses down they switched to 2x6 because of code changes. At the time the R value was pretty small and most of R value gains come from ceilings.
Personally I would probably go with 2x6, that is where everything is going and the added insulation would also be good for sound. Added bonus is larger window sills..
I like to joke that our house has more square feet than the others, because they didn't change the outside dimensions of the houses.
Personally I would probably go with 2x6, that is where everything is going and the added insulation would also be good for sound. Added bonus is larger window sills..
I like to joke that our house has more square feet than the others, because they didn't change the outside dimensions of the houses.
CSRPenFab
Well-known member
Our house in Idaho, 2019 build, is entirely framed with 2x6. Added bonus, the housecat likes the deep window sills for sunny naps!
rburke65
Well-known member
It pays in the long run. For my shop I did 2x6” studs 16” on center. I’m happy with it.
HoosierMark
Well-known member
Insulation is one of those things that seems to be really hard to increase afterwards. When I built 5 years ago we used 2x6 walls and had an inch of spray foam installed. I wanted this to seal all the gaps. Then we added batt and blown insulation. It works for us.
HPRifleman
Member Emeritus
We are in northern Illinois which has much colder temperatures for longer periods of time than the OP's area but I specified 2x6 construction on my garage that is currently still under construction. R-21 fiberglass is in the walls.
As to whether it was worth it, here are some numbers.
Construction required a quantity of 130 of 2x6x104-5/8. These were $17.96 each (at March 2021 prices). Alternatively, a 2x4x104-5/8 was $8.40 each. At those prices and quantities the approximate cost of 2x6 over 2x4 was $1,242.80.
Hope this helps.
As to whether it was worth it, here are some numbers.
Construction required a quantity of 130 of 2x6x104-5/8. These were $17.96 each (at March 2021 prices). Alternatively, a 2x4x104-5/8 was $8.40 each. At those prices and quantities the approximate cost of 2x6 over 2x4 was $1,242.80.
Hope this helps.
2x4 staggered doesn't throw off stud spacing if you stagger them every 8 inches instead of every 12. Most builders stagger them every 12 inches. When I built my house, I staggered them every 8 inches (16 inches on the exterior wall, 16 inches on the interior wall) Helped keep the siding from being wavy, and my drywallers didn't have anything out of the ordinary to deal with. Probably cost me a couple extra hundred dollars, it really isn't that many more studs. And I have R 30 walls after I spray foamed them and few thermal bridges. I saw someone was making engineered studs that have a thermal break in the middle now.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
T studs. They are quite neat
Shouldn't be an issue with thicker insulation in the ceiling with 2x4 vs 2x6.... unless you only have an 1.5" gap. Which I really don't understand what you mean. Can you post a picture of that ?
It's a fact what you paid for the lumber but those prices were a true abomination in the history of modern kiln dried lumber, like a 100 year storm.
However, it's still a benefit when it comes to heating your space... just take longer for ROI.
Yep, that's it. If I ever hit the lottery, I'm going to have Matt Risinger come and build my house. T-Studs on the exterior walls, Versa-studs on the cabinet walls. I'm happy with my R-30 walls, but wonder what my heating costs would be at R-60.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
At that point, you go full on passive house
tjansson
Well-known member
With 2x6, 24" OC is the way to go. no reason to waste money on 2x6 16" OC. If you used "advanced" framing techniques and 2x6 24 OC you can reduce the amount of lumber. Advanced framing involves things like , a single top plate. Trusses or rafters, header hangers, no jack studs, etc. Requires more thinking but reduces lumber and thermal bridging. 2x6 24" OC with conventional framing techniques is pretty standard in VT.
I did a few rooms in an existing house with 2x4 studs. In addition to fiberglass between the studs I added 1" of foam on the interior side of the studs. Between that and using a few cans of expanding foam around the outlet boxes I would say I am much better off than if I had for the existing studs out to 2x6.
acer66
Well-known member
Haha, same here and I used R21 while I was at it with 24” o/c.
billconner
Well-known member
safnd2021
Well-known member
As far as spray foam insulation check to see if you have any local Amish or Mennonite colony. I'm having them spray mine a lot cheaper than any contractor and honestly I'd rather give my money to those kinda folks
acer66
Well-known member
What am I looking at?I like these. Full depth insulation, no blocking wiring, and easy to install after enclosed.
mike93lx
ALLIANCE MEMBER
A bracket that supports the drywall in the corner while taking up less space than a third stud
billconner
Well-known member
Home - The Nailer
thenailer.com
Drywall corner clips or drywall backup clips seem to be common terms. I liked these recycled plastic ones but lots of steel ones. Work on ceilings too - on top plates parallel with joists.
acer66
Well-known member
Oh I see, I have used drywall corners before but I will check them out.Home - The Nailer
Drywall corner clips or drywall backup clips seem to be common terms. I liked these recycled plastic ones but lots of steel ones. Work on ceilings too - on top plates parallel with joists.
About to start an addition and want to minimize the use of wood so very timely.
It's been studied to death. The gains in R value add minimal improvement to heat loss visa-vie costs better spent elsewhere, such as roof insulation, gap sealing, etc.
Most of the heat loss is thru the roof and openings in the wall membrane, such as windows.
But I don't know many individuals who want less windows, just for energy savings sake. Home design currently favors lots of windows and open floor plans with vaulted ceilings. Completely wipes out current improvements in the house insulation envelope.
I guess in the end it depends on how much money and where you want to spend it.
Most of the heat loss is thru the roof and openings in the wall membrane, such as windows.
But I don't know many individuals who want less windows, just for energy savings sake. Home design currently favors lots of windows and open floor plans with vaulted ceilings. Completely wipes out current improvements in the house insulation envelope.
I guess in the end it depends on how much money and where you want to spend it.
MerlinsBeard
Well-known member
My shed is an A-frame and the rafters form a cathedral ceiling with a dormer that are 2x4", so 2" polyiso for insulation means I have 1 1/2" height for ventilation from soffit to ridge vent. The shed is relatively small, 10x16' with 7' walls, so I want to retain as much open space in the ceiling as I can.
The engineer in me is trying to research whether adding another 2" to the depth with furring strips so I can add another layer of 2" polyiso is worth the potential energy savings. I still plan to drywall the interior, so I'm trying to weigh whether this extra complexity to the rafters is worth the effort. I'd say no except the roof is the best bang for the buck for insulation.
Also have concrete slab floor which is not insulated, and 2x4" stud 16" oc walls.
I'll see if I can get a couple pics.
The engineer in me is trying to research whether adding another 2" to the depth with furring strips so I can add another layer of 2" polyiso is worth the potential energy savings. I still plan to drywall the interior, so I'm trying to weigh whether this extra complexity to the rafters is worth the effort. I'd say no except the roof is the best bang for the buck for insulation.
Also have concrete slab floor which is not insulated, and 2x4" stud 16" oc walls.
I'll see if I can get a couple pics.
stroked93
Well-known member
2x6 24" on center, more insulated space. Less studs = more efficient insulation. Plenty of strength as long as you frame correctly with struts etc.
59bones
Member
When choosing 16" vs 24" oc, its not just about insulation. You must also consider the wall sheathing. At 16" you can use 1/2" plywood or osb. At 24 you should go to 5/8" thick material.
Then 5/8" sheathing thickness messes with window and door jamb depths.
I suggest 16" oc, R21 kraft faced insulation and 1/2" osb exterior sheathing.
Then 5/8" sheathing thickness messes with window and door jamb depths.
I suggest 16" oc, R21 kraft faced insulation and 1/2" osb exterior sheathing.
tjansson
Well-known member
7/16" Sheathing with 24" OC framing is in the IRC and is common practice. Your local code may differ...
duneslider
Well-known member
You will see greater gains by proper air sealing than going from 2x4 to 2x6. If you will be diligent about air sealing with either method it is obvious that 2x6 is better but very few do a good job with air sealing. Most benefits you gain from 2x6 have little to do with additional insulation. Shop spaces are rarely built to good efficiency standards and they are hard to get when you have big drafty doors and things like that. The R-value of good double pane windows is 3-4 max, double that for triple pane windows. You start hitting the rule of diminishing rewards really quick with insulating walls if you happen to have doors and windows in the walls.
A much more efficient option would be a 2x4 wall with a couple inches of foam on the outside. That will get you a continuous exterior barrier before it gets to the framing and it does a great job air sealing.
A much more efficient option would be a 2x4 wall with a couple inches of foam on the outside. That will get you a continuous exterior barrier before it gets to the framing and it does a great job air sealing.
nadogail
Well-known member
I have learned many things over the years, among them the value of "doing it right"; and more insulation is better. When in doubt, "Build for Stout". If 2X6 framing is within your budget, it will eventually pay off in savings, but it may take a long time.