3-Car-Garage to Paint Booth Design

[MaxThroughput]

Title says it, I am buying a house with a 3 car garage. Currently, there is a dividing wood wall between 2 of the units. I could take part of it down, or build a door through to the other side.

My two main concerns are heat and ventilation. I have done some research and found that infrared gas tube heaters are probably the best bet for my goals. My goals are to keep the garage above 60F year round so that I can do body work and painting. I figure radiant heat will also be best with letting fresh ventilated area into the work place. The dimensions of the garage are approximately 36'x22'x12'.

Other concerns are paint booth size and heating placement. I'm not sure if the separate 1 car side of the garage will be enough room to paint an entire car body, if its not, then i'll have to use the 2 car side. Ideally it would be and I would set up that side of the garage as a dedicated booth, so I wouldn't have to worry about paint dust and dirt getting into the painting area. As far as heating placement is concerned, what would be optimal in making the work place warm, but with a priority on keeping an entire car body heated to the appropriate temperature. If sanding/body filler work and painting are to occur in different spaces that need heated, that will need to be taken into consideration.

I know this is a lot of detail, but ventilation and heating placement are my biggest questions, whats the most effective arrangement for a hobbiest body shop/garage. If I could run a 35' tube in the back of the garage at a 45degree angle and thouroughly heat a car body that is infront of it, that would probably be the answer, but im afraid the indirect sides of the car wouldn't be heated appropriately.

Thanks

 

[pseudorealityx]

This really depends on how 'serious business' you want to be when it comes to ventilation/filtration/heating. To do it 'right' is not inexpensive in the least.

 

[MaxThroughput]

Yeah, I get that. I'm not painting Ferraris or anything. I want the work to look professional though. I'd like to restore cars in my part time year round. I'd like the work to look good enough to get attention and have people call me to have their cars painted.

 

[E.rodz]

More info needed! picts. would help as well! how much painting are we talking about? business or hobby? cars or parts? how close are your neighbors? how close do you park to the direction of the exhaust? what part of the country do you live in? how cold does it get in the winter? there are some awesome ideas on here for this same thing but lets get started with more info so we can get you some better answers because this is not one size fits all answers.

 

[MaxThroughput]

E.rodz - This is primarily a hobby. I want to learn how to do the work at a professional level so that in the near future, I can open a location and make it a business. Currently, I have a 1973 Datsun 240Z that I want to paint in purple candy. I'd be looking to paint cars and parts, probably the bulk would be restoration work. After the Datsun, I might buy another old car, paint and sell it. Neighbors are pretty close to the garage and this would not fly in the eyes of city zoning, but I think i'll be alright because the cars that i'm painting will be in my name.

I live in Cleveland, OH. Winters get nice and icey cold. I think we went 45 days last winter below zero. If this winter is as wicked cold as last, I probably won't spend much time in the garage during those weeks.

I haven't closed on the house yet so I can't get pictures, but I will report back with those when I can.

 

[C96]

Hi MaxThroughput and welcome to the Garage.

Simply getting advice from non experts in this field for setting up a spray booth in a home garage is something you should not do.

The environment inside and around the spray area is highly explosive and anything installed incorrectly can contribute to the death of the persons inside or surrounding the area.

This is not something that should be taken lightly. Just as an example, unless the electrical system in the spray area is of the explosion proof type, simply flipping a light switch is all that is needed to ignite the explosive fumes.

I realize this is just a part time hobby, but nevertheless it can be extremely dangerous. Please use commonsense when painting and definitely do your homework on this matter.

Good Luck and have fun with your projects

 

[MaxThroughput]

C96 - Thank you for the advice. Do you know a resource that I could reference for answers to my questions? I have found very little information on the subject of autobody in general over the past few months.

 

[C96]

C96 - Thank you for the advice. Do you know a resource that I could reference for answers to my questions? I have found very little information on the subject of autobody in general over the past few months.

I didn’t mean to imply that members here on GJ are incompetent in this area of expertise, but simply wanted to make you aware of the importance regarding your intensions.

I know many members have done and are doing exactly what you intend on doing.

I think you should move this thread over to General Garage Discussion. You should be able to do this by signing into GJ and using the edit button on this thread. If not, the moderators of this forum might be able to help you get it moved as well if you so desire.

More than likely you will receive a lot more responses to your questions about this matter and maybe even a professional with expertise in this field can help direct you.

Good Luck and have fun!

 

[MaxThroughput]

I can't seem to move the thread. If a MOD on this forum is able to move this to a more appropriate location, please assist. Thanks

 

[C96]

I can't seem to move the thread. If a MOD on this forum is able to move this to a more appropriate location, please assist. Thanks

Eric is a great guy, Read this

 

[NUTTSGT]

I can't seem to move the thread. If a MOD on this forum is able to move this to a more appropriate location, please assist. Thanks

Yep, just PMing a Mod like you did will get it moved. Simple as that and here we are in General Discussion now.

Eric is a great guy, Read this

Thanks for the compliment.


Painting in your home garage, I hope your neighbors like you or this plan will end very quickly. It'll be even worse if you ventilate and get overspray on their house or car. So in the grand scheme of things, pay very close attention to your neighbors and the wind direction.

Having those awesome Cleveland winters will also make you want to insulate that place to take advantage of the heat you're spending your cash on. One of the other things I've seen guys do is to line the booth with metal siding and to use conduit for the electrical. This allows you to wash the space down to get rid of excess dust while enclosing any outlets or switches in the space.

 

[MaxThroughput]

NUTTSGT- Thanks for moving the thread. Also, the vinyl siding is a great idea.

Fortunately the house i'm looking at is surrounded by multifamily homes on all sides. That's one nice thing about the community. Mine is also a duplex, so tenant backlash would be one thing i'll be on the look out for. I don't think i'll have any problems there though.

On the far side of the garage, theres a 10'x10' grassed area where I will run the garage exhaust, it's probably 40' from any car parking areas and I could also run filtering on the exhaust to make sure no over spray escapes.

Insulation is a given. I need to figure out the best method though because currently the garage has wood paneling and then vinyl on the outside of that. From the inside, you can look through the wood panels and see vinyl, so i dont know if I should get some kind of insulation blown to seal the two surfaces, or put up paneling first, ill have to look into that.

The vinyl lined paint booth idea is great, I will look into this. That would allow me to paint and sand in the same booth.

Any further thoughts on heat design?

 

[sberry]

I can paint a car in a porto potty if I have to but you want a divided room so that the heating equipment can run in one side and the paint process is in the other. Get the whole garage warm enough and it heats the car. Here is a must for anyone building a booth.

http://finishingacademy.com/training/aero/aero_mod3/aero_mod3_intro.html

 

[MaxThroughput]

I drew up a quick sketch to assist with conceptualizing the idea.

Where would be optimal placement for the natural gas radiant tube heater(s)? How can I ensure that heat is sufficient throughout the building if all the heat is on one side? Maybe 2 window openings to the booth with filters and fans would do the trick if all the heat was on the 2 bay side? With this method I could run the heat while painting instead of needing to shut down the heaters during spray time. Then again, I may run into the potential of not getting enough heat into the booth. Thoughts?

 

[E.rodz]

I have built a home spay booth at my shop and have tested the explosion therory to the point of being very uneasy feeling in my gut. I am still alive NOT SAYING YOU SHOULD DO THIS IN ANY WAY ! however i can tell you that I have painted a few cars at home with box fans in the windows and no incodents in any way shape or form. that being said your heat will be a bit of a issue if the slab is already poured which it sounds like it is in floor heat is out so maybe old school hot water register heat in the booth area would be a good thing the radiant heat would be a bad idea because of the open flame and even if it is off the pilot will be a concern while painting. when you exhsaust the air you must replace the air with more air and if it is cold out your temp will drop rapidly and you will have runs in your paint trust me on this one. i put 4' lights in the walls in mine and a 1.5 hp motor fan with 10" ducts to the fan I have in floor heat in my booth and it does not keep up with the fan when it is 10f and below. but if your fresh air is heated it will help greatly.check out my garage build thread for some picts. i will be bake with more advice later gotta run.

 

[MaxThroughput]

SBerry - Thanks for the link. That makes some sense of the ventilation. The heating is still a great concern though.

 

[MaxThroughput]

I made some changes to the schematic. Thoughts?

 

[arrowhead]

Why stuck on the infrared tube heater? It only heats objects, not the air so having it in the other bay where the cold air comes in isn't really helping. The paint booth bay will be an ice box (heat loss on three sides, roof and floor) and not effective for properly curing the paint. You need to keep your booth a temperature that will keep the metal body panels a minimum of 60 degrees. Get yourself a cheap infrared thermometer and scan around a car and you will be amazed how cold the lower portion are like rocker panels. I think you would be better off with some kind of warm air system that will circulate around your projects. Even a hot air furnace located in the two bay garage with supply and returns grilles mounted through the dividing wall would work good. You could still take ventilation air from the two bay area (yes you could use the radiant unit in there, the objects that get heated up from the radiant unit will warm the surrounding air eventually).

I would insulate walls and ceiling and cover with plastic sheeting and then add wall covering of your choice if you haven't already. Cover any door seams with plastic and or tape to keep wind / infiltration from blowing in dust and dirt from the outside. The tighter you make it, the better you can control what air gets in and out.

Personally I think you are pushing it a little with people close by. They will smell it and probably see the fumes. Over spray is a concern too. Clear coat is nasty stuff and will float quite a ways and still stick.

The process I use is preheat the space to 70 or more, shut off the heat, turn on the exhaust, spray one coat and let the fan clear the air, turn the heat back on. After half an hour or so turn the heat off and repeat. With an air unit you can recover quickly and keep up with the exhaust fan.

 

[MaxThroughput]

Arrowhead - So you're suggesting a combination of a furnace and a tube heater? The tube heater I feel is a must to keep the garage warm throughout the winter. I want to keep it at a stable temperature. I agree that it's probably pushing it but I don't see any other good alternatives. The home is a duplex so I can rent out half, make some money back and unfortunately there is just **** for zoning around here. Hopefully since the majority of the street are multifamily homes, I won't have as much to worry about, I guess this could go either way though.

I'm buying the property with the #1 motivation being the garage and setting it up to work on cars. There really aren't any alternatives other than moving out to the country where zoning won't be a problem. This isn't an option for me. There has to be a way to contain/filter the exhaust. Would making a roof exhaust be better than at the side wall?

Also - I can make an effort to paint at times of the day when it's not going to be obvious.

Edit: Nice '33 Ford! Very bad ***.

 

[NUTTSGT]

NUTTSGT- Thanks for moving the thread. Also, the vinyl siding is a great idea.



The vinyl lined paint booth idea is great, I will look into this. That would allow me to paint and sand in the same booth.

Any further thoughts on heat design?

Metal siding like on a pole bldg, not vinyl.


You're welcome btw.

 

[MaxThroughput]

Arrowhead - I just called my city's building department. They said as long as I don't get over spray on neighbor's property and follow the city's noise ordinance, I should be okay to paint my own cars in my garage. I believe I can control the first through filtering and second through insulation, working with the garage doors closed and common sense.

Do you know of any additional laws regarding paint order that might exist?

 

[Weedwaka]

Why don't you make a deal with a local shop that has a booth. You can prep the whole car out and paint most the inners very well without a dedicated booth. Final coat is just the last small percentage of any project. Spend the money on a good trailer setup and keep the shop space open. A booth is a HUGE footprint and maintenance PITA. Buy lots of lights to ensure perfect prep and paint it in a real 100k booth.

PS : I would get quotes on home insurance with a spray booth in the garage as well.

 

[MaxThroughput]

Weed - That is a great idea, but I would like to have the flexibility to paint at home. I don't know how to paint and would really prefer to be able to learn and practice at home until I master the art.

 

[E.rodz]

here is some picts. of my cobbled together paint booth.





the fan is mounted outside tucked up under the roof.

 

[BRIANBB]

Attached garage or detached garage would play a vital role whether you should or should'nt I would imagine.

 

[arrowhead]

I don't know how to paint and would really prefer to be able to learn and practice at home until I master the art.

Sounds like you might be jumping the gun a little, I'd start out with some small projects before converting a garage bay into a spray booth. Are the other two bays going to be for shop area or to park you daily drivers in? Doing bodywork and paint on a car takes up quite a bit of room. it's messy, the sanding dust get everywhere, and even the fumes from body filler are nasty.

Don't know what your plans are but when you remove all the panels from a car you need some place to work on them. There have only been a couple of instances where I've painted a car all assembled.

 

[MaxThroughput]

Arrowhead - The primary reason for buying this property is the garage. It's what sold the property. The 2 car garage will be my work shop. Where I do my engine building, welding, motorcycles, that kind of stuff. The 1 car that is attached to it I want to function as a body work/paint booth. My goal is to open a body shop in the next few years. I want to do collision work and classic restorations. I work in IT now, but my passion is in cars and I feel at peace in the garage. That's really neither here nor there, but I will be dumping out my 401k and everything I have saved when the time comes to make this dream a reality. My life will be on the line and I will either succeed or lose everything trying. This garage is a fundamental first step toward that goal.

I should have clarified that I have next to no paint spraying experience, but I do have body work experience. In as much as welding/rust repair and getting panels smooth with a thin layer of mud. I do get that most cars are not painted as a whole. I'll try to paint my Datsun as a whole because it's going to be a urethane kandy job and I don't want lines. Basically what I'm saying is that i'm willing to invest a few thousand dollars to get this shop up to snuff. It's an investment in my education. It will need to have the tools I need/can afford, to master the art.

 

[MaxThroughput]

Is it the general consensus here that I am going to need a tube heater for 24/7 heating and a drawl through furnace for heating the booth and for running when the exhaust fans are on? Is the furnace going to be required to get the booth to 60? I'd like to find a solution that can run 24/7 without making me go broke which can keep the room at that temp so body filler will cure properly.

I'd really prefer to oversize the radiant tube heating so that I'm only running one gas line. If I have those exhaust fans running and pulling the warm radiant air, is this feasible? The middle wall between the 2 and 1 car bays is not insulated, its just framing right now really, so I have options there.

I've read that some of the radiant tube heaters have self contained pilots, so I could put one in the booth to heat it up, and power it down when spraying, then power back up afterwards. Does anyone know if these are truly contained and if this would be safe?

 

[MaxThroughput]

Any other advice on heating? I still don't have an effective strategy yet.

 

[arrowhead]

I'd like to find a solution that can run 24/7 without making me go broke which can keep the room at that temp so body filler will cure properly.

Heat is heat is heat. The only difference in cost is the fuel, the efficiency of the unit and temperature you keep the space at.

The reason why infrared heaters typically use less fuel is because you can keep the air temperature lower but it still "feels" warm. The problem with that is only the surfaces exposed to the radiant heat will really warm up. so that's not going to help you on a rocker panel that you just put filler on, it could be 50 degrees down there but you're in a t-shirt sweating. An air system will help circulate and reduce cold spots (when the fan is running). Your best bet is make the structure as air tight and insulated as you can. That will help keep the heat evenly distributed and costs down.

 

[K13]

Sounds like you might be jumping the gun a little, I'd start out with some small projects before converting a garage bay into a spray booth. Are the other two bays going to be for shop area or to park you daily drivers in? Doing bodywork and paint on a car takes up quite a bit of room. it's messy, the sanding dust get everywhere, and even the fumes from body filler are nasty.

Don't know what your plans are but when you remove all the panels from a car you need some place to work on them. There have only been a couple of instances where I've painted a car all assembled.

Not to hijack this thread or be a *** but be careful spraying hoods and trunks in vertical orientations like that. With a lot of paints (colour)they will look bad when reattached to car because things like metallics/ pearls will settle out differently when sprayed on vertical and horizontal surfaces. So your hood and trunk may not look the same as other horizontal surfaces on the car like roof and cowls. Panels should always be sprayed in the orientation they sit on a car.

 

[MaxThroughput]

Arrow - What are you using for heat? My concerns are flammability and cost. I'm looking for the most effective solution from people with experience here.

 

[Weedwaka]

Heat is heat is heat. The only difference in cost is the fuel, the efficiency of the unit and temperature you keep the space at.

The reason why infrared heaters typically use less fuel is because you can keep the air temperature lower but it still "feels" warm. The problem with that is only the surfaces exposed to the radiant heat will really warm up. so that's not going to help you on a rocker panel that you just put filler on, it could be 50 degrees down there but you're in a t-shirt sweating. An air system will help circulate and reduce cold spots (when the fan is running). Your best bet is make the structure as air tight and insulated as you can. That will help keep the heat evenly distributed and costs down.

This is the truth. Setup is everything. I worked in a shop with a large poorly designed infrared heater and it was terrible. Cold everywhere that wasn't being cooked by the internal sun of death from above. Poor insulation, non insulated slab, unit too low all seemed to play a part.

On the flip side I worked in a huge body shop that had an amazing setup. Radiant in the ceiling and the floor. No horrid forced air units blowing your masking everywhere. It was perfect temp all the time. Just magical.