3 gang wiring?

[L5wolvesf]

I currently have a 2 gang box, with 2 light switches, which I want to upgrade to a 3 gang, adding a receptacle. The current switches operate; the ceiling receptacles for the shop florescent lights, and an outside motion sensing security light system. The wiring to the box is a pair of 3-wire cables (white, black and copper).

Also, one of the white wires is not attached (only taped over) to either of the switches. And whomever did the wiring used all black wires to the switches, which is further confusing this for me.

And, just FYI since I don’t know if it matters, to make things slightly more confusing my gf was shown how to operate the security lights but we have since forgotten the combo of how to activate the motion sensing. It was a combo of on/off at the switch.

Does anyone have a diagram showing how to wire this correctly?

Thank you,
Larry

 

[Alchymist]

From the looks of things, power comes in on the white wire in the red wirenut and is jumpered to both switches. Can't see in the box itself, but it looks like the output of the left switch is sent back up the black wire in the cable that feeds the power in. The other switch appears to use only the black wire in the other cable to feed that circuit, the white being taped off. I doubt the white wire goes anywhere, probably taped off at the other end also. If this is the case, there is no neutral in the box, so no outlet can be installed.

Not the way i would have wired it. Also not a good idea to have an outlet on a light circuit. I wouldn't do it, run a new circuit to a nearby location for another outlet.

 

[hdshinn]

OK, truth in lending: I'm not an electrician. That understood ....

You always switch the hot leg of a lighting circuit. Meaning you only connect black wires (or other colors other than white, the neutral leg) to the switch terminals.

It appears to me you've only got two wire cable in the box. I'm not seeing the bare ground wire you mention. Beyond that, the white wire that's wire nutted to the two blacks coming from the switches is wrapped with black tape indicating, to me anyway, that it's being used as the hot leg or power to the switches. So I would presume power's coming into the box via that white wire with the black tape, then to the switches that control the lighting via the black wires in the two romex cables. Where and how the neutral leg gets involved isn't clear from what we can see here.

I suspect trial and error might be the best way to resolve the problem of controlling the security light.

With respect to changing out the box to a 3 gang and installing a receptacle: (please don't take offense) I wouldn't advise you to do it. It doesn't sound like you have a great deal of experience working with electrical wiring, plus it's probably not allowed by the national electric code to have an outlet on a lighting circuit. That's just a guess but something I prefer not to do on my home projects. You'd be much safer to hire an electrician.

 

[Alchymist]

OK, truth in lending: I'm not an electrician. That understood ....

You always switch the hot leg of a lighting circuit. Meaning you only connect black wires (or other colors other than white, the neutral leg) to the switch terminals.

It appears to me you've only got two wire cable in the box. I'm not seeing the bare ground wire you mention. Beyond that, the white wire that's wire nutted to the two blacks coming from the switches is wrapped with black tape indicating, to me anyway, that it's being used as the hot leg or power to the switches. So I would presume power's coming into the box via that white wire with the black tape, then to the switches that control the lighting via the black wires in the two romex cables. Where and how the neutral leg gets involved isn't clear from what we can see here.

I suspect trial and error might be the best way to resolve the problem of controlling the security light.

With respect to changing out the box to a 3 gang and installing a receptacle: (please don't take offense) I wouldn't advise you to do it. It doesn't sound like you have a great deal of experience working with electrical wiring, plus it's probably not allowed by the national electric code to have an outlet on a lighting circuit. That's just a guess but something I prefer not to do on my home projects. You'd be much safer to hire an electrician.

You got the first sentence right ......

 

[L5wolvesf]

In responce to some of the input so far:
There is a bare ground (copper) wire attached to and in the current 2 gang box.

Also, one switch operates ceiling receptacles/outlets which primarily has florescent lights plugged into them.

With respect to changing out the box to a 3 gang and installing a receptacle: (please don't take offense) I wouldn't advise you to do it. It doesn't sound like you have a great deal of experience working with electrical wiring, plus it's probably not allowed by the national electric code to have an outlet on a lighting circuit.

No offence taken, and if this was not allowed by the national electric code why would there be face plates that provide for 2 switches and 1 outlet?

More input please.

Thank you,
Larry

 

[hdshinn]

...., and if this was not allowed by the national electric code why would there be face plates that provide for 2 switches and 1 outlet?...

In that situation, Larry, you'd have two separate power circuits feeding the box. One for lighting and one for the outlet. At least that's the way I'd do it. But as Alchymist is quick to confirm - I'm not an electrician. (grin)

 

[kenfath]

Recently read a magazine article that said the 2011 NEC requires a neutral wire be present in any switch box. The logic is to accommodate future needs. Check and see if the taped white wire is a neutral. IF it is the neutral then you have all the wiring needed to add a receptacle. IF it is NOT a neutral try to determine where the wire goes. Possibly it could be connected to a neutral at its next terminal point.

IF you didn't want to change the box you could replace the switches with a duplex switch and use a suitable cover plate for it and the receptacle.

 

[Kevin C]

Check and see if the taped white wire is a neutral.

AKA , the unused white wire. The other white also has tape on it to indicate that it being used as a hot.

 

[Git]

I am not an electrician...

It looks like you what I would call two "romex" cables running to a double gang electrical box, Each of the romex cables should consist of a black, a white and a bare copper wire. So basically you have two whites and two blacks

As previously mentions, it looks like the white with the black tape on it is "hot" and is providing power to the two switches. Who ever wired it is using the two black wires as "switched hot" to power the lights or whatever the switch is controlling.

The problem with adding an outlet to what you got - is your going to need that neutral (white) wire. Hopefully the other end is connected with the other neutrals - but you are going to have to track it down to be sure. Once you get that neutral running, you should be able to add your outlet. Just pigtail in a black wire under the red wirenut for the outlet, connect your neutral and ground and you should be good to go

Another though if your box is big enough (hard to tell) you could add a dual rocker switch like this and keep your dual gang box

 

[jbberns]

I'd say you could pick up your neutral with the white that is taped off.
Power comes in at the light, then goes to the switch? That is what I'm seeing.
I'd use an extension ring for the switches and ****** to another box for the receptacle.
Never seen 2 switch, 1 recept coverplate

 

[BigJohn20]

In that situation, Larry, you'd have two separate power circuits feeding the box. One for lighting and one for the outlet. At least that's the way I'd do it. But as Alchymist is quick to confirm - I'm not an electrician. (grin)

There is no such rule prohibiting receptacles and lighting being on the same circuit in a residence.

As for the OP, as stated by Alchymist, you cannot run a receptacle off of what you have in the box. You only have switch legs present, meaning no neutral. This means no receptacles.

Bring the neutral into the box using the unused white wire and you're in business.

 

[Alchymist]

I usually recommend no outlets on lighting circuits for one reason - if you accidentally overload the outlet the lights go out. Not fun in the middle of the night. Your lights, your choice.

 

[Git]

Never seen 2 switch, 1 recept coverplate

They actually make a 3 switch combination - but these and the double use the same circuit

 

[L5wolvesf]

Never seen 2 switch, 1 recept coverplate

For your viewing pleasure.

 

[jbberns]

Thanks. Not common though. 10 years and a master's license and that's the first.