3 hour hot concrete poor

[600SL]

It's even worse if the guy isn't a drinker/drunk. At least his crew has an excuse for not showing up on time. Maybe not a good excuse but at least an excuse. If the owner wasn't out drinking the night before what would his reason be for not showing up on time?

I don't know all the details but I believe he was out rustling up his crew of drunks. I know he was awake and coherent at 7:00 AM.

 

[600SL]

its almost like the OP is the contractor looking for advice, because he's not liking any that is given.

I believe I got all the advice I need. Consensus is it has to go. Litigation advice I hear and have been there and I don't believe it is a viable solution in this case.

Tomorrow I will ask him to rip it out and if I manage the trucks and have some back up labor ready I don't feel I'm going to have a problem. But getting reimbursed for the concrete is unlikely.

Other option is to have someone else rip it out and re do it.

Or I may just rip it out and fill with gravel for now.

 

[JerryB]

600SL:

Once again, I will point out that your slab, poured directly on clay soil without any reinforcing steel, will soon (already as you said above) crack. Those cracks will separate as the clay soil contracts and expands, causing the slab to become uneven. Probably to the point that you will trip over the cracks. A slab like this requires wire mesh as well as reinforcing steel to hold it together, and should be poured over an aggregate base. Then when it cracks, the concrete pieces will be held level with each other by the steel.

The common way is to run tied rebar around the perimeter, then put tied 6x6 wire mesh in the field. Otherwise, as others stated above, you will soon be back to gravel in the form of large concrete chunks.

A competent contractor knows this and will not pour a slab that will soon disintegrate.

Better to remedy this while the concrete is still green rather than waiting until it is fully cured.

As to giving this guy a pass, you are doing both yourself and his future victims a great disservice by not pursuing him. If he is not amenable to redoing this disaster, you would probably only need to go to small claims court to get his attention. I would even have his kids lunch money if he did that kind of job for me!

 

[mobiledynamics]

Tomorrow I will ask him to rip it out and if I manage the trucks and have some back up labor ready I don't feel I'm going to have a problem. But getting reimbursed for the concrete is unlikely.

I DIY when I can. If I sub it out to a Pro, then you are paying a Pro to do it.

What I don't understand is your willingness to have him redo and part of that also includes you managing some portion of it (the manage the trucks and extra laborers ready) comment.

You hire someone cause you can't or won't do it yourself.
In that case, you let that person/party/company deal with it from top to bottom.

 

[C96]

I've read this 2X and still not clear why the OP is okay with it, and just want's it grinded and then possibly resurfaced ?

Yes, makes no sense at all, and is willing to pay more $ for a half *** fix while still having the incompetent jerk come back and screw him over again on another project

I believe I read it as OP paid for mud direct, and he also paid the laborers direct ?

This is what I gather as well, which would indicate he is acting as the owner / builder of his own project and the fact he personally called the ready mix company trying to cancel once he realized the workers were a no-show.

It's pretty obvious that the OP has made up his mind before he even made the thread.

Agreed, he seems to be searching for any half-baked remedy other than a complete redo.

its almost like the OP is the contractor looking for advice, because he's not liking any that is given.

^ ^ ^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
I’m thinking the same... Too many things he has said makes no sense.
• Contractor totally screws him over and admits to it. (Owner thinks he’s great)
• Contractors remedy is to fix by grinding, but before that begins slab starts cracking everywhere (Owner still thinks he’s great)
• Owner is willing to pay extra for a half *** quick fix that the contractor screwed up. (Owner seems ok with this and still thinks he’s great)
• Owner not willing to take any action against contractor in order to get what he deserves.
Sorry, but doesn’t make much sense, even after owner gets reamed in the ***, he still thinks his contractor is a saint and willing to have him over again to **** more **** up at his house.

 

[The Cobbler]

whatever the case here, friend, relative, OP .. who ever did the pour... I would not let them have another stab at it or you will get the same results IMO

 

[600SL]

Yes, makes no sense at all, and is willing to pay more $ for a half *** fix while still having the incompetent jerk come back and screw him over again on another project



This is what I gather as well, which would indicate he is acting as the owner / builder of his own project and the fact he personally called the ready mix company trying to cancel once he realized the workers were a no-show.



Agreed, he seems to be searching for any half-baked remedy other than a complete redo.



^ ^ ^ ^ ^ THIS ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
I’m thinking the same... Too many things he has said makes no sense.
• Contractor totally screws him over and admits to it. (Owner thinks he’s great)
• Contractors remedy is to fix by grinding, but before that begins slab starts cracking everywhere (Owner still thinks he’s great)
• Owner is willing to pay extra for a half *** quick fix that the contractor screwed up. (Owner seems ok with this and still thinks he’s great)
• Owner not willing to take any action against contractor in order to get what he deserves.
Sorry, but doesn’t make much sense, even after owner gets reamed in the ***, he still thinks his contractor is a saint and willing to have him over again to **** more **** up at his house.

No one ever said he was great. He did a great job on my slab for the building. He sucked at the outside pad.

Have any of you ever been in the court system. I have and litigation is great for attorneys ***** for everyone else. Unfortunately I don't believe this is small enough for small claims court but I will check that out that may be the only viable solution if it is.

And yes I do believe that if properly managed this guy can do the job. Of course it should not be my job to manage the guy but I am now on damage control. As far as I'm concerned its a business decision now not an emotional decision. But the guy isn't getting another dime.

 

[ford33]

I feel for the OP. This was not expected and quite a let down. From the pictures, everything else on the property looks top grade so there is a history of doing good work here.

One other thing to consider, what will this poorly installed slab do to the value of your property? If you plan to sell the property in the next 5 or 10 years the new owners will consider that slab a liability and calculate the repair or replacement cost and then deduct that amount from your property value. There are long term issues with the poor work.

 

[600SL]

I don't know if this is good news or bad news. NC Small claims court is limited to $5000. That a lot less than the job but if I can claim the maximum it will be a big help. The real problem may be collecting if I win.

 

[Bill Bowman]

I don't know if this is good news or bad news. NC Small claims court is limited to $5000. That a lot less than the job but if I can claim the maximum it will be a big help. The real problem may be collecting if I win.

Maybe Judge Judy would take an interest in your plight? Bill

 

[MartyO]

I just ran down to my shop and kissed my pad after seeing what this looks like.

Take him to small claims court at a minimum. You owe this to yourself if not all the folks you will save from having him do this to them.

 

[MartyO]

I don't know if this is good news or bad news. NC Small claims court is limited to $5000. That a lot less than the job but if I can claim the maximum it will be a big help. The real problem may be collecting if I win.

I still play a lawyer on TV a couple of days a week on TV.

You will still be better off suing him and getting a judgment than doing nothing. You can represent yourself and spend less than a couple of hundred in filing fees.

 

[Tim Kennedy]

Let's see -- owner schedules the trucks & shows up 2+ hrs. late & his crew shows up 3+ hrs. late -- regardless of what you say -- this guy doesn't know what he's doing + he needs to fire his lazy *** crew! Get him to rip it all up -- then fire his *** & start over with a competent contractor -- then take the original contractor to court.

 

[mechan]

I don't know if this is good news or bad news. NC Small claims court is limited to $5000. That a lot less than the job but if I can claim the maximum it will be a big help. The real problem may be collecting if I win.

Not for nothing, but if I read one of your posts right you said you only paid him 75% ... Did you ever end up paying the contractor 100%? If not and you do take him to small claims court to be a **** he could perfect a mechanics lien on your property since he is already going to have to fight about his shoddy work in court anyways. Did he ever stick any small signs up around the property next to the road like XYZ Construction Inc.?

If he is setup as an S-Corp, LLC, etc and his business has no assets you'd be ******* in the wind for repayment after a small claims court settlement anyways. Your only hope would be that the business has some assets or he is setup as a sole proprietorship and has some personal assets.

 

[mechan]

No one ever said he was great. He did a great job on my slab for the building. He sucked at the outside pad.

Have any of you ever been in the court system. I have and litigation is great for attorneys ***** for everyone else. Unfortunately I don't believe this is small enough for small claims court but I will check that out that may be the only viable solution if it is.

And yes I do believe that if properly managed this guy can do the job. Of course it should not be my job to manage the guy but I am now on damage control. As far as I'm concerned its a business decision now not an emotional decision. But the guy isn't getting another dime.

You are more or less digging a pretty deep hole by continuing to use his services. You do not control the labor, so all of the managing in the world does nothing by mitigate his liability in the situation. I can understand wanting to make him fix the problems he caused, but he does not have a quality crew. I would be more worried about the trouble he would cause in the future by me trying to make him fix the problem. Did your contract with him have any performance or quality clauses?

(Granted I just beat my head against the wall trying to make a body shop go right for their mistake a couple months ago. Fyi, I didn't end up 100% right on that issue.)

 

[600SL]

Not for nothing, but if I read one of your posts right you said you only paid him 75% ... Did you ever end up paying the contractor 100%? If not and you do take him to small claims court to be a **** he could perfect a mechanics lien on your property since he is already going to have to fight about his shoddy work in court anyways. Did he ever stick any small signs up around the property next to the road like XYZ Construction Inc.?

If he is setup as an S-Corp, LLC, etc and his business has no assets you'd be ******* in the wind for repayment after a small claims court settlement anyways. Your only hope would be that the business has some assets or he is setup as a sole proprietorship and has some personal assets.

Sound like your saying pay him the rest before I sue him? What a legal system we have.

I believe at this point he is no longer licensed. Probably had difficulties elsewhere. His name no longer shows up on the Home Advisor where I got it and his Website domain name is now for sale.

 

[ZRX61]

Going to try to work out a re-pour. Court is not an option because the guy is broke. Repour is not to risky with the same guy if I can get it scheduled for the afternoon.

For the afternoon? Is this clown employing meth heads or alcoholics for his crew?

 

[mechan]

Sound like your saying pay him the rest before I sue him? What a legal system we have.

I believe at this point he is no longer licensed. Probably had difficulties elsewhere. His name no longer shows up on the Home Advisor where I got it and his Website domain name is now for sale.

I am for sure not saying pay him the rest before you sue him. I am just raising a possible scenario about him trying to perfect a mechanics lien. I don't think he'd be successful in getting full payment due to his **** work, but he may try for it if being sued anyways. Whatever you do, DOCUMENT THE HELL OUT OF THIS! Dates, times, pictures, notes, and weather on those days.

It's a crappy situation, just try to invest some time into considering your options before trying to make him fix his mistakes if he isn't capable. I end up having to accept a lot of welds I would prefer not to sometimes because I can't make guys do more than they are capable of. Some times you have to know when to cut your losses labor wise. Who knows maybe you can make him go good for the job, but you are the only one who can make that call you are there we aren't. Some of the best foremen I get to work with are the ones who will man up and tell guys to kick rocks when it isn't working out instead of beating their heads against the wall trying to make a guy who can't or won't do the job.

 

[mechan]

For the afternoon? Is this clown employing meth heads or alcoholics for his crew?

If I had my choice I would force my crews to start at my preferred time of 7 PM for everything.

 

[C96]

Don’t think you would win in Small Claims or any other court, here’s why:
• He is not a licensed contractor
• He did not solicit for the work
• You have no contract
• You personally tried canceling the concrete by calling the ready-mix company
• You personally paid the ready-mix company directly
• You personally paid the labor directly
These are all indications that you were acting as the owner / builder / general contractor in charge of the project. The others involved were nothing more than laborers you merely hired to perform the work. Now, just because the workers you hired showed up late for work and screwed up the job is your problem.

Good Luck with that

 

[mechan]

Don’t think you would win in Small Claims or any other court, here’s why:
•He is not a licensed contractor
•He did not solicit for the work
•You have no contract
•You personally tried canceling the concrete by calling the ready-mix company
•You personally paid the ready-mix company directly
•You personally paid the labor directly
These are all indications that you were acting as the owner / builder / general contractor in charge of the project. The others involved were nothing more than laborers you merely hired to perform the work. Now, just because the workers you hired showed up late for work and screwed up the job is your problem.

Good Luck with that

They were subcontractors not laborers employed directly by the general contractor. For that matter if the concrete truck was a sub under the owner / general and he did not try to cancel or pay then they would also have the ability to file a mechanics lien on his property.

Did he pay EACH laborer directly out of his pocket? or did the sub contractor receive a 75% lump sum payment and from that pay his laborers? If they were the owner / general's direct employees unless he was hiring them on as 1099's or paying the insurances / taxes on them then he was paying under the table and probably wouldn't want to play with court for that reason alone.

I am not sure about OP's state, but where I live you don't need to be a licensed contractor to do business.

Verbal contracts are still contracts all be it pretty shaky ones.

 

[ZRX61]

I think the ring left from the 5 gal bucket in the middle of the slab is outstanding. I wouldn't let the guy pour me a coffee.

 

[mechan]

I think the ring left from the 5 gal bucket in the middle of the slab is outstanding. I wouldn't let the guy pour me a coffee.

I'd have to have probably had a cool down walk that took me into the next state before I could have even processed the situation calmly, so really OP is doing stellar all things considered. Screw it OP sue him for loss of wages and mental anguish due to the stress caused by his incompetence.

 

[C96]

They were subcontractors not laborers employed directly by the general contractor.

Not so, according to the OP nobody was licensed and no contracts were involved, in fact he even stated most of the guys wouldn’t even be able to read one, therefore none were contractors of any kind, so, according to him, this leaves nothing more than illiterate hired hands.

 

[600SL]

Don’t think you would win in Small Claims or any other court, here’s why:
• He is not a licensed contractor
• He did not solicit for the work
• You have no contract
• You personally tried canceling the concrete by calling the ready-mix company
• You personally paid the ready-mix company directly
• You personally paid the labor directly
These are all indications that you were acting as the owner / builder / general contractor in charge of the project. The others involved were nothing more than laborers you merely hired to perform the work. Now, just because the workers you hired showed up late for work and screwed up the job is your problem.

Good Luck with that

Well I do have a contract. I did pay the ready mix company directly but the bills are in his name. Yes I tried to cancel the ready mix because I had two trucks on my property with nowhere to put it.

 

[600SL]

They were subcontractors not laborers employed directly by the general contractor. For that matter if the concrete truck was a sub under the owner / general and he did not try to cancel or pay then they would also have the ability to file a mechanics lien on his property.

Did he pay EACH laborer directly out of his pocket? or did the sub contractor receive a 75% lump sum payment and from that pay his laborers? If they were the owner / general's direct employees unless he was hiring them on as 1099's or paying the insurances / taxes on them then he was paying under the table and probably wouldn't want to play with court for that reason alone.

I am not sure about OP's state, but where I live you don't need to be a licensed contractor to do business.

Verbal contracts are still contracts all be it pretty shaky ones.

My wife wrote a check for $300 and gave it to him. No name was on the check I believe he just gave it to one employee to put his name on. I don't know who my wife physically handed the check to. The $300 came off of the contract price.

The concrete receipt is in the construction companies name but paid for by me.

 

[kingchevy]

Wow, that is just horrible. Tear that out before any of your friends see it or you will never hear the end of it. I can't believe you would even consider having this clown back on your property after that disaster.

 

[ozyborn]

You got bent over and raped. Then you post about it here knowing full well what would be said. I have been through the court system myself vs a contractor. You lust paid 7k for a soon to be gravel pad. If you do not want to listen to us here then why post in the first place?

You do not pay until the job is done. If the contractor can not handle that then you need a different contractor.

 

[600SL]

Pictures of cracks

Yeah it *****

 

[zporta]

The one good thing about the crack is that they are shrinkage cracks, but that means the concrete got way too hot way too fast. Which we basically already knew, also that he loaded it with too much water to make it more workable for him.

Its hard to figure how to make this situation better. I would get a area core sampled to test its strength. And if it tests good see if he can make it look better.

If it was mine i would have to start fresh, but obviously after reading this thread its going to be pretty hard to get unless its on your dime.

My biggest worry is future cracking and separation due to no wire or rebar in the slab.

 

[sracer99]

I wouldn't worry about a mechanics lien, anyone with his skills has no where near the legal skills to file one.
Here in TX residential liens require quite a bit of effort, including the filing of a document something like 60 days prior to the date of the lien filing. I was threatened by a piss poor contractor that did some landscape and a retaining wall when I would not pay retainage until the job was 100%. He called me with the lien threat, I responded with did you file the affidavit as required? He then finished the job and got paid. All it takes is Google, if i was in the contracting biz i'd sure know about liens.

 

[oscar80]

Is this in central NC around the Sanford area? I am about to have a pad poured and I dont want to use the same person.

Dave

 

[kingchevy]

Btw, take a vinegar and water solution and you should be able to clean up your metal siding.

 

[CharlestonJoe]

Besides your pad fiasco, what's your next step? Are you going to continue with the driveway to that parking pad? You might have mentioned it, as you said something about a culvert and something else. I got tired of reading all the bashing and started skipping through.
If I was in your shoes, I would be tempted to have him grind it and wait awhile, maybe a year and see what happens with it. I would use it the whole time. The only reason I say this is because I screwed up about 10 years ago and forgot to tell the concrete company to add fiberglass to the mix and I didn't have rebar or anything down. It was a driveway that took two full loads and we were in the middle of the second truck when one of my men said "Joe there ain't no fiber in this concrete" By then it was too late, so I kept my mouth shut. I drove by that house numerous times since then and nothing. A few hairline cracks, but that's it. The big huge difference is we were waiting on the trucks, but it was mid-summer and it set quick, on sandy soil to boot. Homeowner parks a big box truck on it as well that he uses almost daily.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents and experience.

 

[JimR1998]

I'd sue the guy before the concrete dries. And it sounds like you may only need an early court hearing to walk away with a default judgement in your favor. Even though you may never see any money, you can renew the judgement in the off chance he ever gets his life together.

What about having a bunch of deep saw-cuts done, maybe in 2x2 foot squares completely through the slab? This will give you a bunch of independent concrete pavers that will float out of level like a sidewalk but shouldn't crack as much as a slab. Maybe get you by a few years for parking?

Every area is different but I'd be leary of using him to do anything else, including breaking up the slab. He is likely uninsured and may end up owning that mess if he gets hurt.

Don't waste your time grinding or core testing. Actually, core test that other building he poured. You may find beer cans instead of rebar.

And for god sakes, don't use him on another job no matter how small or less risky!! Life is trying to teach a lesson: the cheap comes out expensive. Listen!

 

[jeepinerdeep]

I really love how it's reinforced "he knows what he's doing" lololol.

Coulda fooled me. I wouldn't park a weedeater on that.

 

[justin1795]

I know some people are saying get someone else to do it ect. its a bad deal but your best bet is to work with him to try to get it the best you can. your not gonna shell out another 7k to hire someone else and hes not going to eat the cost.

 

[nehog]

... I don't believe this is small enough for small claims court but I will check that out that may be the only viable solution if it is...

Even if your loss exceeds small claims court limits, you can file up to that limit. That's the good.

The bad, as I'm sure you are aware is that winning a court case doesn't get you any money if the losing party doesn't have any!

I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but that slab appears to be flat against the metal of the building. IMHO, there needs to be a small gap between that slab and the building wall.

And as everyone (including you) says: that is one horrific job.

 

[rburke65]

The OP can not br convinced that this job is not repairable. I quit reading this post way back ..... It's too frustrating to read this in it's entirety. Life is too short.

 

[buddyboy]

Sorry about how you let yourself get screwed over like this.

Only thing you can do is beat the guys *** in front of his crew.

Tell him next time, if he is lucky he'll see you before you see him.

some lessons are best learned the hard way... you learned your lesson, now it's his turn to learn