3 phase 220 V installed to garage

[electromech31]

Hello all
I have several machine tools in my garage. Currently there running on a rotary phase converter.
My problem is I cant go bigger because of supply amperage, 100 amps. I would like gradually purchase larger machinery.
Ive already contacted my electric supplier they will supply it to my garage free. But Ive got to have from pole to breaker box.
I would like to purchase supplys, so I can reduce the electricians fee.
Any advice

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[Stuart in MN]

First thing, let us know what state or country you're located in. I assume by electric supplier you're referring to your local electric utility? It's pretty uncommon for most utilities to be willing to provide three phase power to a residential property, particularly for no charge...at least, look into whether they will charge you at a commercial rate for your monthly bill.

 

[Mustang51js]

Yeah not sure what your really trying to ask. If power co will run the wire then just install a new service in the garage,maybe 400 amps if you want to go big

 

[electromech31]

I have a three phase pole next to my property. So power company ssid it would be no charge pole to pole. But I have to update my pole from 2 phase to 3.
I do not know what is involved with installing a new pole, boxes, etc.
Ive done all the wiring inside the garage. So once a cabinet is up Ive got no problem

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[electromech31]

Southern wisconsin

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[rockwithjason]

you are not going to save a lot of money by purchasing yourself and since you have no idea what you are buying you are very likely to buy the wrong stuff. you are money ahead to let a pro buy the correct items for you. if you are hell bent to buy it yourself, have the electrician write you a detailed material sheet and take it to the supply house. you will not find anything you need at home depot.

 

[electromech31]

Ok i just want to see what im up agsinst. Great advice

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[A_Pmech]

What's "larger"? You might be just fine with 100A, especially if it's a hobby / 1-man commercial shop.

As Stuart mentioned, you should check on the cost of 3-phase power. Some power companies will charge a commercial rate plus demand.

Then, there's the cost of installing the 3-phase equipment. The electrician may want to charge a commercial rate for the work (about 1.5 times the cost of residential work) and the electrical equipment is about three times the cost of residential single-phase equipment. Unless you DIY, 3-phase gets expensive in a hurry.

 

[electromech31]

The two electricians quoted me the same amount $2500. New pole, new breaker inside.
I would hook up machinery myself.
What I meant by larger is a cnc lsthe and or Vertical machining center, large air compressor.
Right know I have two lathes, CNC knee mill, surface grinder, weldrr

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[Steve from Socal]

Depending on the tariff rates you may be better off with a larger single phase service and a phase perfect three phase converter.
http://www.phaseperfect.com/

They are not cheap, but may cost less over time than three phase service. They are rated to power CNC machines with regen braking.

Steve

 

[woodzy]

You might want to check to see if they are going to install the transformers for each phase or do you need to purchase these. I'm sure you have a 7200 volt line or even more, so they power will need to be stepped down. We just purchased new transformers for our shop - and they were expensive. The cost was over $40,000 for the transformers, poles, and misc hardware. Make sure you have everything covered before you pull the plug (no pun intended).

 

[Forest Road]

$2500 isn't bad. Go for it.

 

[Steve from Socal]

The Poco could do an open delta with 2 Xformers.

Steve

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have a three phase pole next to my property. So power company ssid it would be no charge pole to pole. But I have to update my pole from 2 phase to 3.
I do not know what is involved with installing a new pole, boxes, etc.
Ive done all the wiring inside the garage. So once a cabinet is up Ive got no problem

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Are they making u change out the service drop since u own the pole on your property?? If so, then to change from a single phase to a 3-phase service drop u will need tochange the wire from triplex to quadraplex free air wire. It would probably be cheaper for the PoCo to upgrade the service drop wire. Then u will need a 3-phase service/meter main, etc.

And be aware that 240v/120v 3-phase delta service has a "stinger"/high leg, which is 208v hot to neutral/ground. If u use single pole 120v breakers, make sure they dont connect to the high leg buss in your panel, otherwise u will burn up 120v equipment.

To be honest, 3-phase is not DIY, UNLESS u REALLY know what youre doing!!

 

[electromech31]

Great. I was never planning on doing this myself, just inquiring on materials needed. Thanks guys

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[930dreamer]

Great. I was never planning on doing this myself, just inquiring on materials needed. Thanks guys

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I'd be curious what your monthly power bill will look like after the three phase install. I'm using a 10hp homemade RPC at the shop.

 

[sickjuice]

I would like to purchase supplys, so I can reduce the electricians fee.

I charge guys like you MORE because you waste time when you get the wrong material.
It takes maybe 15 minutes of my time to call in an order and pick it up for your job. How long do you think it would take me to explain to you everything you need to pick up for the job. And then the wasted time when you get the wrong stuff. And you will get something wrong. I know straight up I will have more time in your job if your trying to supply material. And you think I'm going to charge you less?
It costs me (X) to run a business and keep my doors open. I know how much I need bring in per day to stay in business. Material markup is not just beer money, it is part of that calculation. If its not calculated into the material it will be added somewhere else. I will make the same off a job weather part of it is calculated into the material or not.
Besides your not going to find a three phase panel at home depot and the difference in what my wholesaler would charge you vs me for that panel is probably less than I would mark it up

 

[electromech31]

Ok got your point sickjuice

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[wyliesdiesels]

I charge guys like you MORE because you waste time when you get the wrong material.
It takes maybe 15 minutes of my time to call in an order and pick it up for your job. How long do you think it would take me to explain to you everything you need to pick up for the job. And then the wasted time when you get the wrong stuff. And you will get something wrong. I know straight up I will have more time in your job if your trying to supply material. And you think I'm going to charge you less?
It costs me (X) to run a business and keep my doors open. I know how much I need bring in per day to stay in business. Material markup is not just beer money, it is part of that calculation. If its not calculated into the material it will be added somewhere else. I will make the same off a job weather part of it is calculated into the material or not.
Besides your not going to find a three phase panel at home depot and the difference in what my wholesaler would charge you vs me for that panel is probably less than I would mark it up

Good points that our customers rarely understand....

 

[tavernaut]

I only ever buy materials if I'm actual friends with the contractor, for the reasons sickjuice mentioned above. most contractors don't want you to 'help' because your 'help' costs them more time, and of course they expect to make a modest nickel or two by buying and reselling the materials to you.

Unless you know your electrician really well, let him cost out the materials for you. Another advantage is that if he dorks something up, there's no question about whose fault it is.

Buying materials for your contractor is like bringing your own eggs to a restaurant- generally frowned upon.

 

[Speedy Petey]

I charge guys like you MORE because you waste time when you get the wrong material.
It takes maybe 15 minutes of my time to call in an order and pick it up for your job. How long do you think it would take me to explain to you everything you need to pick up for the job. And then the wasted time when you get the wrong stuff. And you will get something wrong. I know straight up I will have more time in your job if your trying to supply material. And you think I'm going to charge you less?
It costs me (X) to run a business and keep my doors open. I know how much I need bring in per day to stay in business. Material markup is not just beer money, it is part of that calculation. If its not calculated into the material it will be added somewhere else. I will make the same off a job weather part of it is calculated into the material or not.
Besides your not going to find a three phase panel at home depot and the difference in what my wholesaler would charge you vs me for that panel is probably less than I would mark it up

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this!!

I love how most people think they can save so much money by buying the material. OR doing some of the "grunt work".
The mentality is so flawed.

 

[Executive]

Couple of things:

1. Your existing service is single phase, not "two phase" (which does exist but is very rare).
2. It is very likely that what you really need is a 208/120 3-phase system, not a delta system, midpoint grounded or not.
3. Your best bet, and most economical would be to switch your existing 240/120 single phase to the 208/120 three phase system, all of your existing circuits will hook right in to the new system with zero modification.
4. Double check that your equipment will operate on 208. MOST equipment will, but it's worth checking that you don't have that rare piece of gear that will not.
5. Listen to the advice above and let a professional electrician buy and install the system. Even with a detailed list, most supply houses will not sell to you on the "trade price" and you will end up paying more in the end. Also, installer supplied equipment is warrantied by the installer so any problems would not be on you. Even with the installer mark up you will pay less.

Good luck with your project.

Chris

 

[theoldwizard1]

4. Double check that your equipment will operate on 208. MOST equipment will, but it's worth checking that you don't have that rare piece of gear that will not.

Very true !

If your equipment is NOT designed for the type of power you will be receiving you will either have to swap out your motors or buy special transformers. Both are $$$, but if you swap the motors you will at least be able to sell the old ones.

 

[JoeFin]

The two electricians quoted me the same amount $2500. New pole, new breaker inside.
I would hook up machinery myself.
What I meant by larger is a cnc lsthe and or Vertical machining center, large air compressor.
Right know I have two lathes, CNC knee mill, surface grinder, weldrr

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Your talking MAJOR Bucks to get into machines that truly run themselves unattended. Bar feeders, vibration detection, and chip conveyors don't come for free

The most I ever do is 2 machines - occasionally 3 if I count my saw cutting stock - and I can do that easily with plenty of room to spare on 100 amps