3 phase car lift, practicalfor hobby use?

[paparodgers]

Good morning Journal members,
I have the ability to buy a quality US made car lift for what I think is a fair price a thousand dollars under cost of new from the manufacturer. Difficulty is that it is 3 phase and I am concerned about the costs associated with power conversion to get it up and running.
Simplest is to get a single phase motor installed but then their is no savings to be had. I could buy a new single phase unit for the same money, the plus side of which is a simple install and I still get US made which makes this old soldier happy.
I have looked at various VFD's and other 3 phase power options but concerned about costs of equipment and then the cost of electrician to keep everything under warranty.
I will call the power company, Alabama Power, today to see about a getting 3 phase to my workshop but not holding my breath.

I would appreciate any thoughts, inputs or suggestions that you have to offer.

 

[930dreamer]

How many hp are we talking about? Not many cases where the power company can/will install and it be affordable.

 

[mike93lx]

Don't bother calling the power company. If a vfd is too expensive, how much do you think it would cost to even install a 3 phase panel.

 

[sberry]

Buy something ready to go.

 

[paparodgers]

Sorry for not giving full info it is a 3 hp motor.

 

[MrSurly]

At 3HP a VFD is an option, but a bit of shopping will likely net you a single phase motor for the same money and less hassle. What is the frame number of the motor?
I'm confused by the mention of warranty. Are you buying the lift from the manufacturer or dealer? If so, see if they'll simply swap the power unit out(?) for a fee.
What brand and model is the lift?
If you have the info needed (tank capacity, pump flow rate/ pressure requirement), consider expanding your search to include the pump/motor/tank assembly (the power unit).
Also, keep in mind that you can recover some cost by selling the three phase take-off parts.

 

[joe_padavano]

A 3HP single phase motor is cheap. I'm sure you can replace just the motor on the pump assembly.

 

[JackAndy]

Alabam Power is one of my customers. There is usually a meter charge or connection charge on your power bill and that will increase if its 3-phase vs single phase. My utility calls it the "Basic Service Charge". You might also start getting billed on demand which of course yours would be very low but I couldn't see it helping your bill.

Don't hook that motor up to single phase because you'll burn it out but you can try whats called a phase inverter. As others are saying, its very simple to change out the motor though. Its pretty much the bolts that hold it to the frame, the wiring and one banjo bolt for the hydraulic line.

 

[Stuart in MN]

By the time you're done buying a VFD and getting it hooked up you may as well buy a single phase lift, I think you'll be money ahead.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Good morning Journal members,
I have the ability to buy a quality US made car lift for what I think is a fair price a thousand dollars under cost of new from the manufacturer. Difficulty is that it is 3 phase and I am concerned about the costs associated with power conversion to get it up and running.
Simplest is to get a single phase motor installed but then their is no savings to be had. I could buy a new single phase unit for the same money, the plus side of which is a simple install and I still get US made which makes this old soldier happy.
I have looked at various VFD's and other 3 phase power options but concerned about costs of equipment and then the cost of electrician to keep everything under warranty.
I will call the power company, Alabama Power, today to see about a getting 3 phase to my workshop but not holding my breath.

I would appreciate any thoughts, inputs or suggestions that you have to offer.

What do you mean by "savings to be had"?

Savings on what? Power usage?

If so, then youre incorrect.

3 phase will not save you money on power usage. It will actually cost you more because of demand and time of use charges which are in addition to the kWh charges and other fees.

 

[BLUE72CAMARO]

What do you mean by "savings to be had"?

Savings on what? Power usage?

If so, then youre incorrect.

3 phase will not save you money on power usage. It will actually cost you more because of demand and time of use charges which are in addition to the kWh charges and other fees.

The savings is the $1k under manufacturers cost that he stated in his post...


My opinion if you dont have 3 phase in some shape or form already in the building either buy a single phase lift or change the motor on the power unit. This application is not worth the costs or headaches of installing a 3 phase system for it alone.

 

[MrSurly]

The “savings to be had” as read it was the money saved by buying “used” vs New. If you add the cost of a VFD (pro installed to save the VFD warranty) then the New lift is about the same money.

I can see op saving money if he does a motor swap himself, but if hiring it done, buy the new lift and move on.


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[matt_i]

Just a note on the VFD...its not a magic box that solves all of the problems.

Yes the power-side wiring is very easy, 2 wires in (L1, L2) and 3 wires out (T1, T2, T3). Seems straightforward and right on the path of success.

But now you have to figure out the DC wiring for controls. Stop-start control, integrate the "overtravel limit switch" for going too far up.

Last is to program the VFD. Some can have over 100 parameters. The good thing is that typically you only need to monkey with 2 or 3 of them from factory settings, but understanding which ones and what to set them to takes quite a few re-reads of the manual if this is your first attempt at integration.

What you cannot do is place a power interrupting device in between the VFD and motor. The VFD is expecting the motor to be able to "sink" the power that it's delivering and if a sudden transient occurs (like opening a drum switch) where suddenly there's no "sink" any more it can blow up the power transistors with no possibility of repair.

 

[rsanter]

Price a rotary phase converter.
Then you can start buying three phase equipment and have something to run it off of.

If you can get a 5hp three phase motor cheap or free, there are panels you can buy that will turn the three phase motor into a rotary power converter

 

[sberry]

I don't want another layer of ****. I got a couple welders need a 50 breaker. Nothing I really use will overheat a 10 wire. I was stuck on old rural small single phase. I would have bought bigger stuff if I was on 3, now I don't care anymore.
In a home hobby scheme doing routine maintenance type stuff the fact you can get most things to do most things that plug in to common outlets.
I got a bud got a hoist been powered by a 16 cord 25 ft long he plugged in to the wall 23 years ago when he got it.

 

[sberry]

If I wanted to be an equipment collector, old machine tools at auctions etc and wanted a machine shop it would be one thing. If I wanted an air comp, small welder and car hoist then would not fudge around, would get **** all pretty much run on 30A circuits.

 

[Worsedog]

For what it's worth, the last shop I worked in had a three phase lift with a static phase converter. I'm not claiming anything about the technical suitability, just conveying my experience. It was there for 10 years before I got there and worked the eight years that I was there. It was not a high volume shop, it was there to support a little used car lot for presale repairs only. I imagine that the usage equated to a bit more than a busy home hobby shop.

 

[sberry]

It's not that it won't work well or ok but what's the goal? Some savings are not worth the price.

 

[Jlarson]

If it'll swap you can find 3 hp 1725 rpm single phase farm duty motors for like $350.

 

[Norcal]

If it'll swap you can find 3 hp 1725 rpm single phase farm duty motors for like $350.

The motor frame size is going to make or break how hard it will be to swap over to 1Ø, the OP will be better served to skip buying a 3Ø lift & spend the dough for a 1Ø lift, while a VFD is a option, one needs the knowledge to program the parameters, and integrate the drive wiring to the lift.

 

[mike93lx]

If it'll swap you can find 3 hp 1725 rpm single phase farm duty motors for like $350.

I personally wouldn't mess around with motor that wasn't picked by the lift manufacturer.

As many have said, buying a single phase lift probably makes the most sense here.

 

[joe_padavano]

I personally wouldn't mess around with motor that wasn't picked by the lift manufacturer.

So out curiosity, if a single phase motor has the same shaft speed and same HP, what, exactly, is the problem? This isn't a precision instrument, it's a motor that turns a pump. The pump neither knows nor cares what nameplate is on the motor, nor how many phases power it.

 

[mike93lx]

So out curiosity, if a single phase motor has the same shaft speed and same HP, what, exactly, is the problem? This isn't a precision instrument, it's a motor that turns a pump. The pump neither knows nor cares what nameplate is on the motor, nor how many phases power it.

Go for it. I just said i wouldn't. I'd rather keep all warranties in tact and not modify something that lifts multi ton items over my head

 

[metlmunchr]

Our 12,000 lb Rotary lift has a 2hp single phase motor on the power unit. I have no idea why a lift would need a 3hp power unit unless the motor is one of those that's rated in China where a lot of motors are based on very small horses.

Re changing out the motor, I thought about all these power units use a C face motor? If that's correct, those aren't just laying around to be picked up for spare change. Most 3hp single phase C face motors cost more than $400.

It'd be interesting to know which quality US made lift the OP is looking at. There's not very many of them anymore.

 

[Norcal]

Our 12,000 lb Rotary lift has a 2hp single phase motor on the power unit. I have no idea why a lift would need a 3hp power unit unless the motor is one of those that's rated in China where a lot of motors are based on very small horses.

Re changing out the motor, I thought about all these power units use a C face motor? If that's correct, those aren't just laying around to be picked up for spare change. Most 3hp single phase C face motors cost more than $400.

It'd be interesting to know which quality US made lift the OP is looking at. There's not very many of them anymore.

Years ago, tried to find a 1Ø 56C TEFC 3 HP motor to replace a 3 HP 3Ø motor, no problem in other frame sizes, but never did find a 56C so went on to other things, it may be out there but doubt it would be very reasonable. The time frame was before I bought a computer & went online, so that would be in the 1990's.

 

[JackAndy]

Our 12,000 lb Rotary lift has a 2hp single phase motor on the power unit. I have no idea why a lift would need a 3hp power unit unless the motor is one of those that's rated in China where a lot of motors are based on very small horses.

Re changing out the motor, I thought about all these power units use a C face motor? If that's correct, those aren't just laying around to be picked up for spare change. Most 3hp single phase C face motors cost more than $400.

It'd be interesting to know which quality US made lift the OP is looking at. There's not very many of them anymore.

Its just the speed at which it will lift. The 3 phase motors are just going to have a lot more torque.

 

[paparodgers]

Thanks for all the great input, currently out of country till end of month so had limited options for checking forum.
For those that asked the unit is a MAHA HCSL 10000 pound lift. It was returned from a commercial shop. Will ask them about switching the motor unit as this seems the simplest way to go.
Took a tour of their facilities with my son last week and was very impressed by their operations. They are actually located 5 miles down the road from my new place so wanted to keep my dollars in the US and support my local economy. They also make a damn fine lift all respect to the other manufacturers out their.
The size of the base and all the support buttressing made me think of a tank. The lift looks built for many lifetimes of use.

 

[MrSurly]

As stated much earlier in this thread, if you are buying this used equipment from the manufacturer, simply say " I'll buy it for the stated price ($1000 off) as soon as you make it single phase".
If they want to charge for the swap, just buy a new lift.
There is no one in a better position to swap that motor than they are, and there's no good reason for them to charge you for it.


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[Diesel Dan]

You should be able to get a whole single phase HPU for <$500.

 

[paparodgers]

will definitely let them know I want it single phase. Thanks for all the great advice.

 

[checkthisout]

You should be able to get a whole single phase HPU for <$500.

Yup. Then sell 3 phase unit on ebay.

 

[sberry]

There is no shortage of 3 phase stuff. Its why this question is here. The second part of the question is if this is practical for home hobby use and the practical answer is no.
If this is truly a hobby and you don't care about the cost and the effort then its a different question, if fartsticking with electric and power supplies, having extra equipment, having additional electric system, having odd stuff then this is for you. If a guy was going into the machine shop business and is buying used machines from industrial then this is for you.
If this ids a common garage where the object is to get common maintenance done then its worth the effort to get simple tools, even at some greater cost that are plug and play, 3 wires goes to it and nothing in the place will overheat a 10 cable.

 

[sberry]

Even common welding equipment can run on 30A service anymore. It makes 60A service go a long way.

 

[lbudrow]

Good Morning everyone,
I am a new member, glad to be here, and need some help.
I just installed a Benwil 2 post car lift and wired in a VFD.
Car lift works, but I need help with the wiring for the start lever and the emergency stop.
The Lift start mechanism has a transformer on it so all the help I can get will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance,
lbudrow

 

[mike93lx]

Good Morning everyone,
I am a new member, glad to be here, and need some help.
I just installed a Benwil 2 post car lift and wired in a VFD.
Car lift works, but I need help with the wiring for the start lever and the emergency stop.
The Lift start mechanism has a transformer on it so all the help I can get will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance,
lbudrow

Start your own thread with real details and pictures. You will get much better help that way