3 phase solar

[American Locomotive]

The inverters are operating properly and are synchronized in 3 phase operation. The inverters are displaying their own phase to neutral voltage, NOT their phase-to-phase voltage.

As someone elese mentioned, 208*1.73 = 360v, so the math checks out.

In, Europe, 400v phase-to-phase 3phase with a 230v phase-to-neutral single phase service is super common.

To get 230v 3 phase out of these inverters, you will need to set them to 132v (230/1.73=132).

If you want to run single phase loads as well, you will need to set them to 120v. The problem is your 3 phase voltage wil drop to 208. Your pump might be okay on 208v, but you will need to verify.

Also keep in mind you will only get about half of the inverter's rated power at 208v vs 400.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Straight from solar panels and 600 amp hrs of 48 v LiFePO4 .. from signature solar

so no grid connection?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The inverters are operating properly and are synchronized in 3 phase operation. The inverters are displaying their own phase to neutral voltage, NOT their phase-to-phase voltage.

As someone elese mentioned, 208*1.73 = 360v, so the math checks out.

In, Europe, 400v phase-to-phase 3phase with a 230v phase-to-neutral single phase service is super common.

To get 230v 3 phase out of these inverters, you will need to set them to 132v (230/1.73=132).

If you want to run single phase loads as well, you will need to set them to 120v. The problem is your 3 phase voltage wil drop to 208. Your pump might be okay on 208v, but you will need to verify.

Also keep in mind you will only get about half of the inverter's rated power at 208v vs 400.

nope did you read the manual? according to page 16, you are to set it to 230v for 230v operation.

132v isnt even an available voltage setting. it has 208v 220 230 and 240v options

for the lower output models available voltages are 100 110 and 120v. but again no 132v option

 

[snowmaneu1]

Do not close any cb's in that panel with the inverter output connected.

Post a pic of the inverter nameplate.

 

[mm08822]

The panel has no load neutral connected to it. Only the righthand vertical bar is a neutral bar.

The left hand "nothing bar" only has a "black" load neutral connected to it from the drives.

The "nothing bar" is isolated from everything. I don't see any connection means for neutral or a grd in the OP's pics.

With that condition, the drives appear to be sensing 208v to ground.
So 208 * 1.73 = 360vac ph - ph.

 

[snowmaneu1]

Do not close any cb's in that panel with the inverter output connected.

Post a pic of the inverter nameplate.

 

[snowmaneu1]

The panel has no load neutral connected to it. Only the righthand vertical bar is a neutral bar.

The left hand "nothing bar" only has a "black" load neutral connected to it from the drives.

The "nothing bar" is isolated from everything. I don't see any connection means for neutral or a grd in the OP's pics.

With that condition, the drives appear to be sensing 208v to ground.
So 208 * 1.73 = 360vac ph - ph.

The nothing bar is the common neutral connection between the three inverters while in 3 phase mode (when not in 3 phase each inverter has two hots and a ground n,l are the hots g is the ground. When in 3 phase the three "n" (one from each inverter) are connected and grounded.

 

[snowmaneu1]

Are these 3 inveters hooked up L-L or L-N?

Each inverter is using one hot leg a.c. out for each phase.. all into a three phase circuit breaker .. cabling between inverters has them communicate. The other hot (when each is only doing 1 phase ) is identified in 3 phase as a neutral and are common and grounded

 

[snowmaneu1]

Terminology is everything. You connected each inverter to a neutral. The neutral is bonded to ground elsewhere, you did not ground the neutral a second time b/c of the inverters, correct?

Correct

 

[mm08822]

You want to double check continuity between both bars w/o the black neutral wire connected. I don't see any connection means.

 

[snowmaneu1]

Is that sole black wire on the left vertical bar in the panel your neutral for the inverters?

Yes common between all 3 inverters in three phase and grounded

 

[snowmaneu1]

ummm you cannot connect inverters that are outputing 360v to a system that is designed and rated for 240v. Did you notice your breakers are rated for 240v?

Right..thanks

 

[snowmaneu1]

No, I didn't.

Seems the OP shouldn't be getting 480v anyway, not sure how he's getting 360v

Either way seems he's in over his head with some potentially dangerous voltages.

 

[snowmaneu1]

That actually makes sense, math wise. 208 * 1.73 = approx 360

Its just not a conventional 3p voltage configuration.



Will your pump run on 208V-3p? A lot of stuff is rated 208-230.


Where are you measuring that at? At the control box L1,L2,L3? Measure L1-L2, L1-L3, L2-L3.

Yes my pump will run .. 208-230.. and I measured in two ways
1) at the 3 phase breaker L1-L2, l1-l3, l2-l3.. 360v on each
2) connected the wiring directly from the 3 phase breaker through the old pump wiring .. 3 female pronged , turned the breaker on .. each was same L1-L2, l1-l3, l2-l3.. 360v
I just went back and reset each inverters setting to 230 instead of 209. Now the line to line at the 3 phase breaker (before it's turned on) is 400v

 

[snowmaneu1]

You want to double check continuity between both bars w/o the black neutral wire connected. I don't see any connection means.

There is no continuity .. the left is the loads neutral common bar used between the 3 inverters in 3 phase .. the right bar is utility neutral for bypass only (it's disconnected until I can get the inverters to power my 3 phase 240 v well pump) ..until I use it for AC into the inverters .. then growatt wants me to connect neutral in common to all 3 inverters in 3 phase

 

[snowmaneu1]

yeah so your inverters are not configured or connected properly.

FYI those breakers are not rated for more than 240v. you should shut off the inverters before doing any other work

Yes my pump will run .. 208-230.. and I measured in two ways
1) at the 3 phase breaker L1-L2, l1-l3, l2-l3.. 360v on each
2) connected the wiring directly from the 3 phase breaker through the old pump wiring .. 3 female pronged , turned the breaker on .. each was same L1-L2, l1-l3, l2-l3.. 360v
I just went back and reset each inverters setting to 230 instead of 209. Now the line to line at the 3 phase breaker (before it's turned on) is 400v

Yes my pump will run .. 208-230.. and I measured in two ways
1) at the 3 phase breaker L1-L2, l1-l3, l2-l3.. 360v on each
2) connected the wiring directly from the 3 phase breaker through the old pump wiring .. 3 female pronged , turned the breaker on .. each was same L1-L2, l1-l3, l2-l3.. 360v
I just went back and reset each inverters setting to 230 instead of 209. Now the line to line at the 3 phase breaker (before it's turned on) is 400v

That actually makes sense, math wise. 208 * 1.73 = approx 360

Its just not a conventional 3p voltage configuration.



Will your pump run on 208V-3p? A lot of stuff is rated 208-230.


Where are you measuring that at? At the control box L1,L2,L3? Measure L1-L2, L1-L3, L2-L3.

Yes my pump will run .. 208-230.. and I measured in two ways
1) at the 3 phase breaker L1-L2, l1-l3, l2-l3.. 360v on each
2) connected the wiring directly from the 3 phase breaker through the old pump wiring .. 3 female pronged , turned the breaker on .. each was same L1-L2, l1-l3, l2-l3.. 360v
I just went back and reset each inverters setting to 230 instead of 209. Now the line to line at the 3 phase breaker (before it's turned on) is 400v

 

[American Locomotive]

Once again, the inverters are working perfectly. Each inverter is measuring it's own phase-to-neutral voltage. To get the 3-phase system voltage you multiply the phase-to-neutral voltage by 1.73. So 208*1.73=360v. 230v * 1.73 = 400v. The math all checks out, the inverters are working fine.

The problem is the inverters are configured for European 3-phase power, which is 230v line to neutral, and 400v phase-to-phase.

Since the inverters apparently do not have a way to change them to 132v or 120v operation, they will not work for you OP. You will either need to get a different inverter, or get a 400>230v transformer.

You can try contacting the manufacturer and asking if there is a way to switch the inverters into a 120v/208 3-phase mode. The manual only specifies a 120/208 single-phase mode, which is kind of odd.

nope did you read the manual? according to page 16, you are to set it to 230v for 230v operation.

132v isnt even an available voltage setting. it has 208v 220 230 and 240v options

for the lower output models available voltages are 100 110 and 120v. but again no 132v option

Each inverter is measuring it's own phase-to-neutral voltage. The fact that OP measured 208v between each inverter's hot and neutral, and 360v between each leg indicates that each inverter is timed and synchronized correctly to each other, and emitting power at the correct phase angle. 208v * 1.73 = 360v. In Europe, their power service is typically 230/400v wye. Their single phase loads are connected line to neutral for 230v, and 3 phase equipment is almost always 400v. The inverters are working properly.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Once again, the inverters are working perfectly. Each inverter is measuring it's own phase-to-neutral voltage. To get the 3-phase system voltage you multiply the phase-to-neutral voltage by 1.73. So 208*1.73=360v. 230v * 1.73 = 400v. The math all checks out, the inverters are working fine.

The problem is the inverters are configured for European 3-phase power, which is 230v line to neutral, and 400v phase-to-phase.

Since the inverters apparently do not have a way to change them to 132v or 120v operation, they will not work for you OP. You will either need to get a different inverter, or get a 400>230v transformer.

You can try contacting the manufacturer and asking if there is a way to switch the inverters into a 120v/208 3-phase mode. The manual only specifies a 120/208 single-phase mode, which is kind of odd.


Each inverter is measuring it's own phase-to-neutral voltage. The fact that OP measured 208v between each inverter's hot and neutral, and 360v between each leg indicates that each inverter is timed and synchronized correctly to each other, and emitting power at the correct phase angle. 208v * 1.73 = 360v. In Europe, their power service is typically 230/400v wye. Their single phase loads are connected line to neutral for 230v, and 3 phase equipment is almost always 400v. The inverters are working properly.

ok but you told the OP to change the voltage to 132 which is not possible... that was all my reply was about.

 

[snowmaneu1]

The inverters are operating properly and are synchronized in 3 phase operation. The inverters are displaying their own phase to neutral voltage, NOT their phase-to-phase voltage.

As someone elese mentioned, 208*1.73 = 360v, so the math checks out.

In, Europe, 400v phase-to-phase 3phase with a 230v phase-to-neutral single phase service is super common.

To get 230v 3 phase out of these inverters, you will need to set them to 132v (230/1.73=132).

If you want to run single phase loads as well, you will need to set them to 120v. The problem is your 3 phase voltage wil drop to 208. Your pump might be okay on 208v, but you will need to verify.

Also keep in mind you will only get about half of the inverter's rated power at 208v vs 400.

Problem is the inverters only allow setting at either 209,220,230,240
So I guess it means I'm stuck with finding a step down 3 phase transformer ?? Thoughts

 

[American Locomotive]

ok but you told the OP to change the voltage to 132 which is not possible... that was all my reply was about.

Problem is the inverters only allow setting at either 209,220,230,240
So I guess it means I'm stuck with finding a step down 3 phase transformer ?? Thoughts

Yes, I see in the manual that 132v operation is seemingly not possible. I assumed you could dial in an arbitrary voltage.

You will need to either find a stepdown transformer or see if the manufacturer has an undocumented 120/208v 3 phase mode.

 

[snowmaneu1]

Once again, the inverters are working perfectly. Each inverter is measuring it's own phase-to-neutral voltage. To get the 3-phase system voltage you multiply the phase-to-neutral voltage by 1.73. So 208*1.73=360v. 230v * 1.73 = 400v. The math all checks out, the inverters are working fine.

The problem is the inverters are configured for European 3-phase power, which is 230v line to neutral, and 400v phase-to-phase.

Since the inverters apparently do not have a way to change them to 132v or 120v operation, they will not work for you OP. You will either need to get a different inverter, or get a 400>230v transformer.

You can try contacting the manufacturer and asking if there is a way to switch the inverters into a 120v/208 3-phase mode. The manual only specifies a 120/208 single-phase mode, which is kind of odd.


Each inverter is measuring it's own phase-to-neutral voltage. The fact that OP measured 208v between each inverter's hot and neutral, and 360v between each leg indicates that each inverter is timed and synchronized correctly to each other, and emitting power at the correct phase angle. 208v * 1.73 = 360v. In Europe, their power service is typically 230/400v wye. Their single phase loads are connected line to neutral for 230v, and 3 phase equipment is almost always 400v. The inverters are working properly.

Thank you thank you extreme clarity now..

 

[snowmaneu1]

Yes, I see in the manual that 132v operation is seemingly not possible. I assumed you could dial in an arbitrary voltage.

You will need to either find a stepdown transformer or see if the manufacturer has an undocumented 120/208v 3 phase mode.

So l assume the step down would be either 360 down to 240 with a created neutral or 400 down to 240 with a created neutral
both giving me 120/240 ?? 120 to neutral and 240 line to line ???

 

[snowmaneu1]

So l assume the step down would be either 360 down to 240 with a created neutral or 400 down to 240 with a created neutral
both giving me 120/240 ?? 120 to neutral and 240 line to line ???

My question then would be .. what size Kw transformer ..
the inverters can put out 5000 watts in each phase
Would be nice to be able to take power off L1,L2 to run single phase 240 loads and L1 for 120 v loads

 

[snowmaneu1]

My question then would be .. what size Kw transformer ..
the inverters can put out 5000 watts in each phase
Would be nice to be able to take power off L1,L2 to run single phase 240 loads and L1 for 120 v loads

And what is OP lol like OOPEEE.. the newbie lol ??

 

[snowmaneu1]

My question then would be .. what size Kw transformer ..
the inverters can put out 5000 watts in each phase
Would be nice to be able to take power off L1,L2 to run single phase 240 loads and L1 for 120 v loads

Meant transformer to get it down to...120,120,209 each to created neutral and 240 line to line three phase .. the L1,L2 single phase 240 and L1 120v would be nice

 

[yatg]

And what is OP lol like OOPEEE.. the newbie lol ??

Original Poster, i.e. you.

 

[snowmaneu1]

The inverters are operating properly and are synchronized in 3 phase operation. The inverters are displaying their own phase to neutral voltage, NOT their phase-to-phase voltage.

As someone elese mentioned, 208*1.73 = 360v, so the math checks out.

In, Europe, 400v phase-to-phase 3phase with a 230v phase-to-neutral single phase service is super common.

To get 230v 3 phase out of these inverters, you will need to set them to 132v (230/1.73=132).

If you want to run single phase loads as well, you will need to set them to 120v. The problem is your 3 phase voltage wil drop to 208. Your pump might be okay on 208v, but you will need to verify.

Also keep in mind you will only get about half of the inverter's rated power at 208v vs 400.

Are you saying stepping it down through a transformer from 400 to 240 will cut my rated ac watt output from max 5000 per inverter down to 2500 ac out per inverter

 

[mm08822]

Once again, the inverters are working perfectly. Each inverter is measuring it's own phase-to-neutral voltage. To get the 3-phase system voltage you multiply the phase-to-neutral voltage by 1.73. So 208*1.73=360v. 230v * 1.73 = 400v. The math all checks out, the inverters are working fine.

The problem is the inverters are configured for European 3-phase power, which is 230v line to neutral, and 400v phase-to-phase.

Since the inverters apparently do not have a way to change them to 132v or 120v operation, they will not work for you OP. You will either need to get a different inverter, or get a 400>230v transformer.

You can try contacting the manufacturer and asking if there is a way to switch the inverters into a 120v/208 3-phase mode. The manual only specifies a 120/208 single-phase mode, which is kind of odd.


Each inverter is measuring it's own phase-to-neutral voltage. The fact that OP measured 208v between each inverter's hot and neutral, and 360v between each leg indicates that each inverter is timed and synchronized correctly to each other, and emitting power at the correct phase angle. 208v * 1.73 = 360v. In Europe, their power service is typically 230/400v wye. Their single phase loads are connected line to neutral for 230v, and 3 phase equipment is almost always 400v. The inverters are working properly.

It's 220/380vac or 230/400vac. Nothing lower that I know of.

The OP doesn't have the correct reference with his floating "neutral bar"

 

[mm08822]

OP, the inverter shows a Grid side "power Input" and an inverter "output side" for loads.
I suggest you connect your 3 pole cb to the input side of the inverters including grid neutral so they get a voltage and frequency reference from the grid.
Then you should measure the output voltage of each inverter at the output terminals. I think you have mixed up the purpose of the input and output side of the inverter and even the new panel. I don't see how this can be operating with an isolated neutral.

BTW, the manual *****!!

 

[American Locomotive]

The only thing that matters is that the neutral connection of all the inverters are tied together. Each inverter has a "hot" and a neutral. By tying all 3 neutrals together, the inverters are all able to reference each other and create 3 phase power. By measuring the phase to phase voltage, we know what the inverters are doing.

Do not connect these inverters to utility power. They are not setup for the correct voltage, and OP has a high-leg Delta setup that has its own complications.

 

[snowmaneu1]

is this a grid tied system?

If so what is the voltage of the utility? 240v 3Ø? if so then you have delta service 3 wire.

how do you have your inverters connected to utility? 1 line from each inverter goes to utility connection along with neutral. 1 line from each inverter goes to house load.

I do have utilities grid delta 3 wire and not "yet" tied to the grid. It's 120,120,208 to its supplied neutral and 240 pm as e to phase

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Definitely do not connect these to the grid. You’ll have bad consequences

Even your breaker panel is not rated for the voltage theyre outputting

 

[PCustoms]

Definitely do not connect these to the grid. You’ll have bad consequences

Even your breaker panel is not rated for the voltage theyre outputting

I feel like the op should watch a few videos on Arc flash, and possibly get himself some PPE if he continues to mess around with this.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I feel like the op should watch a few videos on Arc flash, and possibly get himself some PPE if he continues to mess around with this.

Agreed

Also seems he bought the wrong inverters and may be SOL. Hope he has money for new ones

 

[mm08822]

He needs to call into Tech Support and confirm his parameter set-up and wiring.

I don't know if his wiring not being present on the "input side" (grid) of the inverter is partially to blame for what the "output side" is producing.

The manual is lacking lots of details.

 

[dcg9381]

Also seems he bought the wrong inverters and may be SOL. Hope he has money for new ones

Those are $700 inverters. It's amazing that they work at all. No bonding details on the inverter, probably because they're slinging so many different versions of those things with internal hardware changes, not to mention firmware versions....

He needs to call into Tech Support and confirm his parameter set-up and wiring.

Good luck. The main vendor slinging those is making money on volume.
DIYSolarforum.com is a really good resource for EG-4 and Growatt - probably the best support you'll get.


OP, whatcha trying to do here? A grid tied 3-phase system with battery backup for a 240V 3-phase pump?

 

[u3b3rg33k]

are the growatts PWM "pure sine" or multi-tap transformer pure sine inverters?
360V sounds like DC bus voltage on a VFD fed with 230-240V. many multi-meters have issue reading RMS voltage on PWM outputs, especially with zero load.

i guess you could wire some 230V light bulbs up and see if they go POP!

 

[snowmaneu1]

Those are $700 inverters. It's amazing that they work at all. No bonding details on the inverter, probably because they're slinging so many different versions of those things with internal hardware changes, not to mention firmware versions....


Good luck. The main vendor slinging those is making money on volume.
DIYSolarforum.com is a really good resource for EG-4 and Growatt - probably the best support you'll get.


OP, whatcha trying to do here? A grid tied 3-phase system with battery backup for a 240V 3-phase pump?

Exactly..but I'll forgo the grid tie.. as long as I can get the 3 phase 400 down to 3 phase 240

 

[grounded-b]

If the OP connected 3 inverters with a common connection and then has 3 legs hot, he has it configured in a "wye" configuration.

Currently he must have the output of each inverter set to 208V. This would create a system of 208V L-N and 360V L-L.

In order to get 240V L-L, he needs the output set to 138.7V in a "wye" configuration ( this output is not possible with this inverter)

Set the Inverter to 208V output, L-L config and get 2 - 32V secondary, "boost" transformers, wired in an open delta, to boost from 208 to 240 ( *** edit: I just remembered that these inverters cannot be set to 120V. In that case you are SOL )

 

[snowmaneu1]

are the growatts PWM "pure sine" or multi-tap transformer pure sine inverters?
360V sounds like DC bus voltage on a VFD fed with 230-240V. many multi-meters have issue reading RMS voltage on PWM outputs, especially with zero load.

i guess you could wire some 230V light bulbs up and see if they go POP!

Pure sine wave