3 phase solar

[snowmaneu1]

And not fed from the grid at all?

Why the heck would you try to do this the 3-phase way (other than having that existing pump)? You're already in for 3 inverters + a new panel... I'd be replacing that pump with single phase 240V pump, single inverter, etc.

I think the single phase inverter two hots and a ground into a vfd might be the way to go.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

yeah - if it's operating as a grid-tie, output should have 0V until it picks up the grid signal to sync to.

otherwise it would need to be its own panel.

QO-H breakers (commonly found on grounded-B systems)

What is the difference between the QOB and QOB-H circuit breaker? | Schneider Electric USA

www.se.com

IIRC QO-H breakers do not exist in single pole.

Motor wont like it either

And the current panel he has wont work since its 240v rated

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I only want to use grid to supply power to AC in when solar or batteries cant meet load demands. The UNITS have that capacity. I am not feeding back to grid

But you wont be able to interconnect the grid to any part of this system regardless of wanting to backfeed the grid or not

So you would have to disconnect the pump from the inverter system and connect it to the grid.

Why not just get the right inverters?

 

[PCustoms]

Motor wont like it either

And the current panel he has wont work since its 240v rated

But what does 240v rated mean?

 

[snowmaneu1]

But you wont be able to interconnect the grid to any part of this system regardless of wanting to backfeed the grid or not

So you would have to disconnect the pump from the inverter system and connect it to the grid.

Why not just get the right inverters?

Agreed. New inverter(s) capable of 3 phase delta 240v with 120,120,240 is what should have been purchased though the growatt manual is so vague I assumed it was capable. I seem to have two choices in front of me at the moment aside from New inverters.
1) get a 3 phase auto transformer 15kva stepping 400v wye down to 240 d for $1300. That will give me what the pump needs and allow me to run out single phase 240 double pole breakers and single phase 120 single pole breakers. Then use a 240v grid delta outlet charging a 48v dc charger direct connect to the batteries with a turn on off setting around 51vdc
2) if I forgo the 120v and only use a single phase 240v configuration out of one of the inverters (2 hots and a ground) for single phase 240v, then get a VDC attached to it to match the pump configuration 3 phase.. that should work.. plus the 48vdc charger powered from grid to charge the 48v lifepo4 direct start stop at 51v

Thoughts? What comes to mind at the moment is "In for a penny in for a pound"

 

[Cruzan80]

Not to throw another option onto what already reads like a dumpster fire, but would a RPC work to generate his 3ph power for the well pump (set up solar as 1ph). Thinking it would be much less sensitive to the inverter than a VFD, but don't know how he would swap the pump from grid powered to inverter/RPC easily...

 

[Steve from Socal]

What beside the pump do you need power for? A 400/230 transformer would work and power your 240 panel off the transformer. Is you 400 volts 60Hz? A Delta/wye would give you 120. Delta primary wye secondary with a center tap.

1300 is really cheap for a 15KVA transformer? Is that 1.5 KVA or 15 KVA?

 

[Norcal]

But what does 240v rated mean?

The maximum voltage the panel is rated for, BTW, there is no 3Ø panel rated to accept Square D Homeline breakers, Homeline panels are single phase only & not UL classified to be used in competitive panels.

My previous comment about being bootleg is referring to a likely lack of inspections.

 

[PCustoms]

The maximum voltage the panel is rated for, BTW, there is no 3Ø panel rated to accept Square D Homeline breakers, Homeline panels are single phase only & not UL classified to be used in competitive panels.

My previous comment about being bootleg is referring to a likely lack of inspections.

My comment was sarcasm.

I'm well aware of what it meant. The OP is not

 

[wyliesdiesels]

But what does 240v rated mean?

Lol

Not to throw another option onto what already reads like a dumpster fire, but would a RPC work to generate his 3ph power for the well pump (set up solar as 1ph). Thinking it would be much less sensitive to the inverter than a VFD, but don't know how he would swap the pump from grid powered to inverter/RPC easily...

Good luck finding a three phase motor rated for the European voltage that his inverters are outputting

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The maximum voltage the panel is rated for, BTW, there is no 3Ø panel rated to accept Square D Homeline breakers, Homeline panels are single phase only & not UL classified to be used in competitive panels.

My previous comment about being bootleg is referring to a likely lack of inspections.

In post number 54 he shows Siemens breakers not Square D home line

The panel does not look like a three phase panel either. Would be nice to get an overall picture of the panel he has

 

[Cruzan80]

Good luck finding a three phase motor rated for the European voltage that his inverters are outputting

I may not have explained well enough. Set the inverter to 240 single phase (not three phase from the inverter), then use a RPC to generate the third leg for the well pump. Or does his inverters not handle 240 1ph?

 

[u3b3rg33k]

I'd suggest paralleling the 3 inverters into 120/240 1ø and buying a 5HP output 1ø VFD and output reactor to run the well pump. because idk how far down it is.

 

[mike93lx]

I'd suggest paralleling the 3 inverters into 120/240 1ø and buying a 5HP output 1ø VFD and output reactor to run the well pump. because idk how far down it is.

Can those inverters do 120/240? I know with victron, you need either a special model (2x120) or a pair to get split phase

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Can those inverters do 120/240? I know with victron, you need either a special model (2x120) or a pair to get split phase

i thought the manual said they can, but might depend on the version (?).

 

[mike93lx]

i thought the manual said they can, but might depend on the version (?).

I just dug back... The name plate says 230v single phase. I think he's SOL

 

[Norcal]

In post number 54 he shows Siemens breakers not Square D home line

The panel does not look like a three phase panel either. Would be nice to get an overall picture of the panel he has

Shows SQ D breakers pretty clear to me.

 

[PCustoms]

Shows SQ D breakers pretty clear to me.

You're both right, and this panel looks so wrong:

 

[mike93lx]

The panel does not look like a three phase panel either. Would be nice to get an overall picture of the panel he has

The three lugs on the top would certainly make it seem 3 phase to me. No?

Looks like this

Siemens S2442L3200 200 Amp 3-Phase 24-Space 42-Circuit Aluminum Main Lug Indoor Load Center | NorthEast Electrical

SIEMENS LOW VOLTAGE ES SERIES LOAD CENTER. MAIN LUG WITH 24 1-INCH SPACES ALLOWING MAX 42 CIRCUITS. 3-PHASE 4-WIRE SYSTEM RATED 120/240V OR 120/208V (200A) 100KA INTERRUPT. SPECIAL FEATURES: ALUMINUM BUS, GRAY TRIM, NEMA TYPE1 ENCLOSURE FOR INDOOR USE.

www.needco.com

 

[mm08822]

This is a 3 phase Siemens panel. 24/48 space. With the neutral bar jumper removed.
Siemens S2442L3150 150-Amp Indoor Main Lug 24 Space. Not sure of amp rating.

With SQ D Homeline cbs.

Mike beat me to it.

 

[snowmaneu1]

What beside the pump do you need power for? A 400/230 transformer would work and power your 240 panel off the transformer. Is you 400 volts 60Hz? A Delta/wye would give you 120. Delta primary wye secondary with a center tap.

1300 is really cheap for a 15KVA transformer? Is that 1.5 KVA or 15 KVA?

I thought the primary is what is going into the transformer and the secondary is what's coming out ... this has been quoted as a 15kva 3 phase auto transformer outdoor, 400v wye primary, to 231 v delta secondary. Yup $1,300

 

[snowmaneu1]

In post number 54 he shows Siemens breakers not Square D home line

The panel does not look like a three phase panel either. Would be nice to get an overall picture of the panel he has

It's three phase ..

 

[snowmaneu1]

The maximum voltage the panel is rated for, BTW, there is no 3Ø panel rated to accept Square D Homeline breakers, Homeline panels are single phase only & not UL classified to be used in competitive panels.

My previous comment about being bootleg is referring to a likely lack of inspections.

Thanks for that. I'll get Siemens and remove the square D

 

[snowmaneu1]

I may not have explained well enough. Set the inverter to 240 single phase (not three phase from the inverter), then use a RPC to generate the third leg for the well pump. Or does his inverters not handle 240 1ph?

It does in single phase 208,220,230,240

 

[snowmaneu1]

I'd suggest paralleling the 3 inverters into 120/240 1ø and buying a 5HP output 1ø VFD and output reactor to run the well pump. because idk how far down it is.

These inverters don't do 120/240 In single phase . The well pump is 5 hp 18amp 500 feet down

 

[snowmaneu1]

i thought the manual said they can, but might depend on the version (?).

The spf5000 cannot do 120/240 ..

 

[snowmaneu1]

You're both right, and this panel looks so wrong:

Why does it look so wrong ? I'll remove the square D .. the 50 amp is the max input and output for the inverters and recommended by the manual.

 

[snowmaneu1]

The three lugs on the top would certainly make it seem 3 phase to me. No?

Looks like this

Siemens S2442L3200 200 Amp 3-Phase 24-Space 42-Circuit Aluminum Main Lug Indoor Load Center | NorthEast Electrical

SIEMENS LOW VOLTAGE ES SERIES LOAD CENTER. MAIN LUG WITH 24 1-INCH SPACES ALLOWING MAX 42 CIRCUITS. 3-PHASE 4-WIRE SYSTEM RATED 120/240V OR 120/208V (200A) 100KA INTERRUPT. SPECIAL FEATURES: ALUMINUM BUS, GRAY TRIM, NEMA TYPE1 ENCLOSURE FOR INDOOR USE.

www.needco.com

Bingo exact!

 

[PCustoms]

Why does it look so wrong ? I'll remove the square D .. the 50 amp is the max input and output for the inverters and recommended by the manual.

You've got a panel not rated for the voltage you're feeding it and you put the wrong brand breakers in it

 

[snowmaneu1]

You've got a panel not rated for the voltage you're feeding it and you put the wrong brand breakers in it

Ok got it..With the transformer ill only be feeding it 3 phase 230v delta and will replace the squareD with seimans .. better?

 

[snowmaneu1]

What beside the pump do you need power for? A 400/230 transformer would work and power your 240 panel off the transformer. Is you 400 volts 60Hz? A Delta/wye would give you 120. Delta primary wye secondary with a center tap.

1300 is really cheap for a 15KVA transformer? Is that 1.5 KVA or 15 KVA?

Also a heat pump at 3 phase 240 delta in the mix down the line

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The three lugs on the top would certainly make it seem 3 phase to me. No?

Looks like this

Siemens S2442L3200 200 Amp 3-Phase 24-Space 42-Circuit Aluminum Main Lug Indoor Load Center | NorthEast Electrical

SIEMENS LOW VOLTAGE ES SERIES LOAD CENTER. MAIN LUG WITH 24 1-INCH SPACES ALLOWING MAX 42 CIRCUITS. 3-PHASE 4-WIRE SYSTEM RATED 120/240V OR 120/208V (200A) 100KA INTERRUPT. SPECIAL FEATURES: ALUMINUM BUS, GRAY TRIM, NEMA TYPE1 ENCLOSURE FOR INDOOR USE.

www.needco.com

for some reason those pics were not loading for me. they didnt even show up. all i saw was the multimeter pics...

 

[snowmaneu1]

Thank you for your posts, youve helped me far more than words can convey suffice it to say you've educated and opened a window of direction.

 

[snowmaneu1]

While I like the idea of using the variable frequency converter combined with single phase 240 to generate the third wire for the well pump 3 phase motor: I see the path forward acquiring the 3 phase 15kva auto transformer taking in my 3 phase inverter wye 400v and producing 3 phase delta 240v. That way I can get 120 single phase and 240 split phase as well as use the existing lines running utilities 3 phase delta to a facility 200 yards away, both while on solar inverter power or if i engage bypass (if i have to do maintenance on the solar system), and go back to 3 phase utilities.

Question: the inverters take 240 AC in single phase (G,N,L) , I can run two 120's off utilities 3 phase to create 240 split phase. AM I INCORRECT in my thinking that I can run the two 120 hots into the inverter (N,L) and supply it's required 240v AC input. I'll ask this question of the manufacturer as well.