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3 phase voltage reduction question

jabberwoki

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So I`m running 480 3 phase for my machines because the grinder is not duel voltage.
I just got a 3 phase 220 DoAll band saw and was wondering about using a step down transformer on the stand alone circuit/ plug for this machine?
 
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Rookie2

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check ebay 180779010440 , depending on hours of use you may be better off just changing the motor.
 

wyliesdiesels

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Whats the question? Yes u need a step down transformer....

Is the saw really 220v? 220v hasnt been in use in the US for decades....
 
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jabberwoki

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yep 220 came out of a trade school 1970 vintage.
the 2 motors in the saw are dual voltage but there`s a lot electrically going on in side and I don't want to mess with the saw
 

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Norcal

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At that time motors still used the 220/440 volt rating, the supply voltage is not 220.....


Edit: get a 240 X 480V transformer & step the voltage down to 240V.
 
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logixjock

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yep 220 came out of a trade school 1970 vintage.
the 2 motors in the saw are dual voltage but there`s a lot electrically going on in side and I don't want to mess with the saw

3 Phase transformers get spendy fast.

How much is REALLY going on electrically? I would bet that model of saw was sold as a high voltage model as well, probably has a dual voltage control power transformer. If that's the case we can probably talk you through hooking things up to work with your existing supply voltage.

What is the model #? DoAll used to be pretty good about manuals for their older equipment and a 1970 isn't really that old.
 

A_Pmech

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If the motors are dual-rated, reconnect them for 440V and re-tap the control transformer for 440V. Change the motor starter heater sizes per the heater table for the new FLA and done!
 

wyliesdiesels

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If the motors are dual-rated, reconnect them for 440V and re-tap the control transformer for 440V. Change the motor starter heater sizes per the heater table for the new FLA and done!

As has been established the motor is most likely NOT 220/440v but instead 240/480v. The OPs supply voltage is 480v so switching the control transformer to 440v doesnt make sense....and the OP hasnt even mentioned having a control transformer....
 

logixjock

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As has been established the motor is most likely NOT 220/440v but instead 240/480v. The OPs supply voltage is 480v so switching the control transformer to 440v doesnt make sense....and the OP hasnt even mentioned having a control transformer....

HAHAHA.. The OP did most assuredly state the tag read 220Vac. And if you look at the picture he posted you can just make out the numbers 220. And he stated "there is a lot going on electrically" so it is safe to assume there is a control transformer. Probably time for you to let the grownups talk for a bit.

OP, it probably won't be too big of a deal to switch it over to high voltage, 220Vac, 230Vac, 240Vac... it really doesn't matter if you have an older, lower rated voltage class when dealing with electromechanical controls. If you get us the model number, we can get the schematic from DoAll and walk you through it. If you want to spend the money on a transformer, we can help you with that also.
 

wyliesdiesels

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HAHAHA.. The OP did most assuredly state the tag read 220Vac. And if you look at the picture he posted you can just make out the numbers 220. And he stated "there is a lot going on electrically" so it is safe to assume there is a control transformer. Probably time for you to let the grownups talk for a bit.

OP, it probably won't be too big of a deal to switch it over to high voltage, 220Vac, 230Vac, 240Vac... it really doesn't matter if you have an older, lower rated voltage class when dealing with electromechanical controls. If you get us the model number, we can get the schematic from DoAll and walk you through it. If you want to spend the money on a transformer, we can help you with that also.

Let the grown ups talk? Thx for the insult. U have no idea what my background is....did u read Norcals comment(#5)? A lot electrically going on means nothing. Without more pics were just assuming...next maybe u should keep your insults to yourself....

220v is a 50hz voltge BTW and wouldnt go over well with 60hz supply. Just te reason why I asked. But seeing as back then motors were rated at lower voltage but ran on 60hz supply...and if u look at the motor label it says 60 cycles. So the motor should be supplied by 240v...I stand by my previous comments and u should insert your foot in your mouth....
 
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MBfreak

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One poster suggested to get hold of the schematic from DOALL.
Excellent. Do it.
Take it from there.
Changing the motors to the higher voltage makes sense.
The control circuit transformer probably has taps to. If not, replacing a 250 VA(?) control transformer is a lot cheaper.

Again.
Schematics, facts.

Ola
 
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logixjock

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Let the grown ups talk? Thx for the insult. U have no idea what my background is....did u read Norcals comment(#5)? A lot electrically going on means nothing. Without more pics were just assuming...next maybe u should keep your insults to yourself....

220v is a 50hz voltge BTW and wouldnt go over well with 60hz supply. Just te reason why I asked. But seeing as back then motors were rated at lower voltage but ran on 60hz supply...and if u look at the motor label it says 60 cycles. So the motor should be supplied by 240v...I stand by my previous comments and u should insert your foot in your mouth....

I do not know what your background is, but I can tell what it is not by your posts in this thread. Your answer doesn't really make any sense. It's a moot point anyways, the OP doesn't want to rewire the saw, he wants to use a transformer. I was just pointing out another option for him.
 
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jabberwoki

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Ok so heres the deal the schematics from DoAll cost $62.02 pr page!!!!
The saw has an 110 outlet and a 240 single phase welder so there is a lot of transformers and junk in there. The saw came out of a trade school and hardly any hrs on it so I really don`t want to change out any of the internals.
I`ll be the first to admit to being baffeled by all that's going on it the saw.
But if it`s as simple as what as what A_Pmech says that would be great.
Model 1612-3 Ser# 152 701057 Electrical schematic No. 56933-4
 

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Steve from Socal

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I have the same series saw, mine is plated as 220 volts and it is wired to my 240 high leg delta. I have 480 power and wanted to wire it for higher voltage IE 480, the welder is the real issue. According to DoAll the welders on these saws were single voltage, an external transformer is needed to use it on 480. You need to size the transformer for three times the 8 KVa rating of the welder. As mentioned you will have to change the heaters or overloads on the saw and coolant motor starters A few KVa 480:240 X-former is not too pricy, shipping is another story!

Steve
 

bsaint

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So weird that DoAll wouldnt use a 220/440 dual voltage motor... Also the saw has a welder?

Anyways I would just get a step down xformer. I mean how much KVA is that saw really going to use?

Also what is the guy talking about with the 220v 50hz stuff?
 

Norcal

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So weird that DoAll wouldnt use a 220/440 dual voltage motor... Also the saw has a welder?

Anyways I would just get a step down xformer. I mean how much KVA is that saw really going to use?

Also what is the guy talking about with the 220v 50hz stuff?[/QUOTE]

220 volts is a 50 hertz voltage, but the OP's saw has a motor when 3 phase motors were rated 220/440V but the US had long ceased using those voltages.

3- single phase transformers could be used to step down the voltage.
 

Steve from Socal

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The drive motor and coolant are dual voltage motors, the control transformer has a high tap, only the welder is truly single voltage. The welder can **** weld 1/2 x .035 bi-metal bands or 3/4 carbon bands, that takes some current. The welder on my saw is rated at 8 KVa, his saw is the same series but a year or two newer. This should be close to what it looks like.

Steve
 

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jabberwoki

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Yep just like yours! What year is yours?
As for the welders being single phase isn`t this also adjusted within the saw? As I don`t see and extra plug in for the welder just the main plug.
 

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wyliesdiesels

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I do not know what your background is, but I can tell what it is not by your posts in this thread. Your answer doesn't really make any sense. It's a moot point anyways, the OP doesn't want to rewire the saw, he wants to use a transformer. I was just pointing out another option for him.

Steve in SoCal's comment and Norcal's comment, both below, affirm what i said. U still think i dont know what Im talking about? Your lack of knowledge on the subject shows for itself...my answer doesnt make sense? How so? 220v is a 50hz supply voltage and doesnt exist in the US , which has 60hz supply, nor can a transformer change cycles. The OPs motor, while saying 220v, is rated for 60hz supply and therefore should be supplied with 240v Delta 3 phase power...I rest my case...

I have the same series saw, mine is plated as 220 volts and it is wired to my 240 high leg delta. I have 480 power and wanted to wire it for higher voltage IE 480, the welder is the real issue. According to DoAll the welders on these saws were single voltage, an external transformer is needed to use it on 480. You need to size the transformer for three times the 8 KVa rating of the welder. As mentioned you will have to change the heaters or overloads on the saw and coolant motor starters A few KVa 480:240 X-former is not too pricy, shipping is another story!

Steve

So weird that DoAll wouldnt use a 220/440 dual voltage motor... Also the saw has a welder?

Anyways I would just get a step down xformer. I mean how much KVA is that saw really going to use?

Also what is the guy talking about with the 220v 50hz stuff?

220 volts is a 50 hertz voltage, but the OP's saw has a motor when 3 phase motors were rated 220/440V but the US had long ceased using those voltages.

3- single phase transformers could be used to step down the voltage.

Ok so heres the deal the schematics from DoAll cost $62.02 pr page!!!!
The saw has an 110 outlet and a 240 single phase welder so there is a lot of transformers and junk in there. The saw came out of a trade school and hardly any hrs on it so I really don`t want to change out any of the internals.
I`ll be the first to admit to being baffeled by all that's going on it the saw.
But if it`s as simple as what as what A_Pmech says that would be great.
Model 1612-3 Ser# 152 701057 Electrical schematic No. 56933-4

The only transformer that would be needed, if supplied by 4-wire 240v Delta, is a control transformer, IF the coil in the starter is rated for something other than line voltage.

If no neutral is supplied to the unit, then a transformer would be needed for the 120v outlet BUT NOT the welder as the welder would use 2 of the 3 phase legs for power.

If ur gonna use a step down transformer, i would look at th wiring and see if u can feed it with 4-wire delta, eliminating the need for a 120v transformer...
 
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jabberwoki

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My saw is a 66 by the serial number 66731. That saw looks great and it seems to have just about every bell and whistle!

Steve

Yep when the school ordered it they didn`t cheap out look at the original order slip!!

And thanks Wyliesdiesel that fixed the welder wiring question I had.

ABK241 Thanks also I`ve pmed him to see what he`s got, although I`ve posted up a request there already.
 

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logixjock

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Steve in SoCal's comment and Norcal's comment, both below, affirm what i said. U still think i dont know what Im talking about? Your lack of knowledge on the subject shows for itself...my answer doesnt make sense? How so? 220v is a 50hz supply voltage and doesnt exist in the US , which has 60hz supply, nor can a transformer change cycles. The OPs motor, while saying 220v, is rated for 60hz supply and therefore should be supplied with 240v Delta 3 phase power...I rest my case...

*DELETED*

OK, you win kiddo... You are too much of an expert for me to duel with. :beer:
 
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