3 ton floor jack

[lardy1]

I'm in the early stages of researching floor jacks. There are so many on the market. I've never owned one and never paid close attention to the ones I've been around so it gets confusing. This will be used in my home setting. Probably the hardest it will work is lifting 1/2 ton Chevy pickups for tire rotations and general maintenance.

What are the features you prefer? What are the better models and better brands?

I'm not a Harbor Freight person at all but I'm not so closed minded that I blind myself to the popularity of their Daytona jacks. Again, a lot of models and very little explanation as to their differences. Which of the HF Daytona's are getting the high grades? Are the Pittsburgh a step down from Daytona?

I have only looked online so far. I see a NOS that caught my eye. Anyone know anything about this one? https://www.tooltopia.com/nos-nsj03...PwFvuMreuaaNEdbm9tGo2Ty2Yy-hNXcMaAlm1EALw_wcB

Torin and Blackhawk both have models I might look into.

What I'd really like are your personal observations on particular makes & models. I know there are more. My budget will top at around two fifty so I can't really move into a professional grade jack.

Thanks for your input. I want to make an informed decision but I'm dreadfully uninformed.

 

[ex-x-fire]

Have you considered a used usa made one? I know there's a rebuilder that does the lincoln/walker/snap on jack hydro units from $130-$150. I found that site after I rebuilt one myself.

 

[Qualitytools]

If you have a Costco membership the one Costco sells made by Arcan is a good choice and we'll within your budget.

 

[WinMod21]

If you have a Costco membership the one Costco sells made by Arcan is a good choice and we'll within your budget.

That ^ is what I was gonna suggest as well, as I likewise did pretty extensive online research (trying to find a reasonably priced 3 ton floor jack-- similar to the quality of the 3 ton Snap-On floor jack I purchased in 1981 and enjoyed using so much for 30+ years, before foolishly selling it when we moved). At the time, 6~7 yrs ago, I decided that the Arcan [3.25 ton - Low profile] floor jack sold @ Costco was the best value/price option, and we've been very pleased with it. They might sell a different model currently, as I seem to recall glancing at one whilst walking the aisle, and it was a different size and color, but I don't recall if it was still the Arcan brand.

 

[WinMod21]

... Purchased at Wyoming, MI Costco for approx $110

 

[lardy1]

That ^ is what I was gonna suggest as well, as I likewise did pretty extensive online research (trying to find a reasonably priced 3 ton floor jack-- similar to the quality of the 3 ton Snap-On floor jack I purchased in 1981 and enjoyed using so much for 30+ years, before foolishly selling it when we moved). At the time, 6~7 yrs ago, I decided that the Arcan [3.25 ton - Low profile] floor jack sold @ Costco was the best value/price option, and we've been very pleased with it. They might sell a different model currently, as I seem to recall glancing at one whilst walking the aisle, and it was a different size and color, but I don't recall if it was still the Arcan brand.

That's pertinent. Thank you. I'm now understanding that NOS is just rebranded Arcan. The one I'm looking at is aluminum. It's slightly over two hundred on sale right now. Looks like they run between two hundred and two twenty. I might go that way. I'm closer to 67 than 66.

 

[dagofast]

I have a now old Snap on YA700B that I paid top dollar for when it was new, back around 1990. With the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, it isn't a great jack. Turns out it was just a rebranded Lincoln jack and Lincoln is long gone. It doesn't get used much and it has been rebuilt twice now. Both times, Snap on was completely worthless for parts or technical support, so you don't always get what you pay for.

My previous jack was one of those little $29 K Mart stamped steel floor jacks from Taiwan that had 4 times the use and abuse this Snap on jack has ever seen. I'd say I got excellent value for my money out of that one.

If this Snap on ever hiccups again, I'm heading to Harbor Freight for their yellow Daytona jack. The good one is the 63183 SKU number. It fits your budget at full list but its worth searching for a coupon. http://www.hfqpdb.com/harborfreightcoupons

 

[whateg01]

I like the older jacks myself. Parts are available for most of them and they tend to be more reliable than most imports. Don't buy truck brands as they are rebadged and if you do, don't try to buy parts for them from the truck; go to the OEM. I would put more trust in a 2T older jack than a new 3T import as well, but unless you plan to lift your whole truck at once, 2T will be fine. For fun, you can also frequently find 4T long frame jacks like Walker 784 for not a ton of money which gives you the benefit of being able to reach under the pumpkin without having to crawl under the truck or have limited handle stroke.

Dave

 

[Qualitytools]

Here is what the Arcan 3 ton is selling for at Costco

3-Ton Professional Grade Aluminum And Steel Service Jack
★★★★★
★★★★★4.7 out of 5 stars. Read reviews for 3-Ton Professional Grade Aluminum And Steel Service Jack
4.7
(1470)
Item 996603
Your Price119.99$
Shipping & Handling: $4.99*

Of course if you are not a Costco member this will not mean much to you but just a suggestion and to save some $$

Features:
3 Ton Service Jack

 

[WinMod21]

~ If this Snap on ever hiccups again, I'm heading to Harbor Freight for their yellow Daytona jack. The good one is the 63183 SKU number. It fits your budget at full list but its worth searching for a coupon. http://www.hfqpdb.com/harborfreightcoupons

That looks like a purdy good one too. If mine ever gives out I think I'd head that direction as well.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

I have an Arcan as well and I've been considering buying the longer Arcan to have a second jack. Got mine at Costco as well, though my Costco card has long since expired. Probably got it a good 8-10 years ago maybe? Been working great. Occasionally left outside when a "one day project" in the driveway turned out to not be a one day project. A little bit of rust on it to show for that but no problems so far.

 

[crbnfbr]

Here is what the Arcan 3 ton is selling for at Costco

3-Ton Professional Grade Aluminum And Steel Service Jack
★★★★★
★★★★★4.7 out of 5 stars. Read reviews for 3-Ton Professional Grade Aluminum And Steel Service Jack
4.7
(1470)
Item 996603
Your Price119.99$
Shipping & Handling: $4.99*

Of course if you are not a Costco member this will not mean much to you but just a suggestion and to save some $$

Features:
3 Ton Service Jack

It doesn't appear that jack is a "member only" item, so anyone can purchase it online.

 

[TimTaylor75]

I have the Daytona from HF and have been pleased with it thus far. Works well with my '69 442 and '19 Jetta.

 

[Ign]

I haven't seen it yet in this thread but soon someone will post that the Daytonas are exactly the same as the Snap-Ons and built in the same factory. I'm still not convinced this is true (despite claims or proof of any lawsuits)....and it's not because I'm a Snap-On fan boi (I don't own any Snap-On lifting equipment nor am I particularly likely to) but because it's just too easy for keyboard warriors to post stuff like this and because hydraulic suppliers in China change all the time. As is pointed out in the thread below all these designs/exploded views are available everywhere and it's not like we're talking about new technology here, PLUS the Chinese are masters of copying anything and everything.

That said, it's also been established Snap-On jacks are also China COO, so it's really just a question of if Snappy is holding their suppliers to a higher level of QC (and I'm not saying they are or are not).

In the end, I think Joe Suburbia who works as an accountant by day feels good if he can get on a tool forum like this and brag about how he's so clever because he bought a Harbor Freight jack that's "identical" to what the "big boys" use.

Also the thread below seems to suggest there's little difference between the HF 3T jacks (Pittsburgh? maybe? or however they brand them) and the Daytonas save for a couple magnets maybe. This is something the OP questioned.

I'd at least read posts 1129 and 1222, or start at 1129 and just keep going is better if you have the time:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=338200&page=13

And as Lardy is a new user, he may or may not know that HiBall tends to be our resident expert on all things hydraulic, but in particular he seems extremely familiar with hydraulic jacks.

Flame suit on, someone may now attack me for daring to temper the enthusiasm of Daytona=Snap On. Attacks now shown below:

 

[WinMod21]

Regarding Arcan floor jacks.... spotted this question answered on the Brazilian River:

Q: Where is the jack made? Can you buy a seal kit when you buy the jack?

A: China. And no, you can't buy a seal kit when you buy the jack or afterward. At least I couldn't, and I tried several sources, including the importer. Of course, the same holds true of any jack made in China, which is pretty much every jack on the market under $200, and probably many of them over $200, like this one.
You should read my review and the comments that follow. I don't disagree with Skawt01's description of this jack as 'robust and well made.' But only on the outside. Unfortunately, it's what's inside that counts when it comes to hydraulics. You can't determine from an external visual inspection the quality of the metal cylinders or rubber seals, or the manufacturing tolerances. And that information is not published.
BTW, the part of my review where I said spend a little more than $200 for a jack with a real warranty and real serviceability has been overcome by inflation. That price is no longer a valid reference point.
By Veni Vidi (Bibi) Vinum on June 23, 2015

 

[Iowafox]

I highly recommend going to HF and getting a Daytona 3ton. I have the green low profile and love it. I don't use it daily but have used it quite a bit and it's great. I have lifted my daily driver a 06 Chevy Malibu, Wifes 19 Ford Escape, My beater truck a 2000 Chevy silverado 1500 z71 and a few others and absolutely no issues. This winter is was a real hero jacked my car out of a snowbank and jacked my truck up enough to slide wood under the wheels to get out of the snow that was over the axles in negative degree weather. I think these jacks are a great bang for your buck. Best ? Probably not but it will last a long time I have no doubts. I do however know once my current one goes out I will be going and buying the Yellow one (63183 SKU number) Like others have said as well. I would have gotten that one if I had the extra $100 at the time I got my green one.
I do believe that the yellow one is the same as the Snapon one from looking at them both side by side at a local mechanic shop. That is just my opinion tho feel free to agree or disagree.
Just a word of advise about what ever jack you get make sure the handle is long enough for your needs and you actually like the jack and can see your self using it for years. If you really like it it will give you joy when using it and will be taken better care of vs if you get one and dont like something about it you will be more likely to not care as much. At least this is what I think before getting myself tools.

 

[BlakeTheCarGuy]

I use the Daytona jacks from Harbor Freight our shop also uses them. I have an old Craftsman USA one too it’s really good but for the money I recommend Daytona from Harbor Freight just don’t get your jackstands there if you need those.

 

[Mr.N]

I haven't seen it yet in this thread but soon someone will post that the Daytonas are exactly the same as the Snap-Ons and built in the same factory. I'm still not convinced this is true

Do they make a re-build kit for the Snap-on?

Be nice to see some try and replace the seals on a Daytona with the Snap-on seals...

 

[M635_Guy]

I haven't seen it yet in this thread but soon someone will post that the Daytonas are exactly the same as the Snap-Ons and built in the same factory. I'm still not convinced this is true (despite claims or proof of any lawsuits)....and it's not because I'm a Snap-On fan boi (I don't own any Snap-On lifting equipment nor am I particularly likely to) but because it's just too easy for keyboard warriors to post stuff like this and because hydraulic suppliers in China change all the time. As is pointed out in the thread below all these designs/exploded views are available everywhere and it's not like we're talking about new technology here, PLUS the Chinese are masters of copying anything and everything.

That said, it's also been established Snap-On jacks are also China COO, so it's really just a question of if Snappy is holding their suppliers to a higher level of QC (and I'm not saying they are or are not).

In the end, I think Joe Suburbia who works as an accountant by day feels good if he can get on a tool forum like this and brag about how he's so clever because he bought a Harbor Freight jack that's "identical" to what the "big boys" use.

Also the thread below seems to suggest there's little difference between the HF 3T jacks (Pittsburgh? maybe? or however they brand them) and the Daytonas save for a couple magnets maybe. This is something the OP questioned.

I'd at least read posts 1129 and 1222, or start at 1129 and just keep going is better if you have the time:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=338200&page=13

And as Lardy is a new user, he may or may not know that HiBall tends to be our resident expert on all things hydraulic, but in particular he seems extremely familiar with hydraulic jacks.

Flame suit on, someone may now attack me for daring to temper the enthusiasm of Daytona=Snap On. Attacks now shown below:

I was looking at the original thread the other day, and there's a follow-on as well. At some point, it looks like HiBall got inside the Daytona and confirmed it had the really good seals in the main body and regular ones elsewhere. My read was grudging approval, but I don't want to speak for the guy.

I do think they're made in the same factory as the SO, mainly because the guys who make these kinds of things wouldn't generally set up different production/assembly lines for what is essentially the same build. Slightly different wheels (accounting for he different heights) and possibly different seals in some spots, but the build process is the same. I'd bet a lot they they're made by the same people on the same line with barely-different bill-of-material sheets.

For me, I bought the yellow Daytona with a coupon and I'm really happy with it. It's smooth, fast and is easily the best jack I've ever owned. The Costco Arcan seems like a good bargain-jack, but if you have the coin I don't see a better jack out there than the Daytona yellow.

 

[Hiball]

It Never ends....

1. The Hydraulic unit in the Yellow Daytona is the same unit they used in the old Pittsburg models along with a multitude of other retailer branded jacks. The only difference is that HF optioned for two randomly placed Magnets stuck inside the reservoir along with Ucups on the pump pistons, then kept the same cheap Oring/retainer on the main cylinder (shame on you HF) but kudos for the 3 year warranty and marketing to make all your consumers think you have done something inclusive to the market.

2. It’s Possible that the HF is made in the Same factory as the SO, Along with the Sunex models (listed in the suit as the OEM for SO) and the Northern tool yellow jacket all have the same Advertised “quality seals and filter system”.

3. Does it mean the jacks are identical? No... I will contend that the Hydraulic unit core is the same style, but the finish options, Seals, Frame designs are customer optioned to there specs.

4. Before someone from either side accuses me of claiming the Daytona is just as good as there Snap on or vice versa.... I’m not saying that, My opinion is based off hands on with the Daytona. I’ve yet to have a opportunity to tear into a SO. If it makes you feel good to have SO stickers on your lift equipment, It’s your money. If your confident that your Daytona really has Red paint under its Yellow exterior.. Sleep well tonight.

 

[whateg01]

It Never ends....

...If it makes you feel good to have SO stickers on your lift equipment, It’s your money. If your confident that your Daytona really has Red paint under its Yellow exterior.. Sleep well tonight.

Snap On should start selling their stickers and a can of red paint for those who want them!

Dave

 

[amandato]

I have the same jack WinMod21 has, I got it in 2010, it is a work horse, though I am a hobbyist and occasional brake/suspension work on random weekends, not a daily usage mechanic. It is heavy though, you're not making friends if you have to bring it to the track.

I have been watching Costco and their website the past 6 months, and just recently they dropped the Arcan jack from their website, replaced by a CAT brand jack. I hope this is temporary, but Costco has a reputation for taking products off the website when they are out of stock rather than leaving it and saying "out of stock". More interestingly, online up until about a month or so ago, you could buy I believe an Arcan steel/aluminum hybrid jack, where-as at my local Costco (Columbus, Ohio Polaris location) they are selling the all steel Arcan jack.

I do wish the jack was lighter for when I have to go between garages or load it into the car, but on the flip side I never question its strength and ability to lift any of my cars and minivan.

In my opinion cheap tools from China and Taiwan are coming to an end in the coming years, if you're thinking about a new jack or other imported tool like that, now is the time to buy it. It will most likely take 5+ years for HF and other companies to move their tooling to India or where ever they determine is the next cheapest place to make this stuff.

 

[lardy1]

I'm second and third guessing whether I really need a jack that is going to weigh a hundred pounds. The recent discussions in here have me looking hard at the Menards jack. But......again......the weight. And, on the other hand, I already have a two ton Chinese ************* I don't trust. I'm trying to get beyond that.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

do you lift your jack? Traveling mechanic?

 

[WinMod21]

I'm second and third guessing whether I really need a jack that is going to weigh a hundred pounds. The recent discussions in here have me looking hard at the Menards jack. But......again......the weight. And, on the other hand, I already have a two ton Chinese ************* I don't trust. I'm trying to get beyond that.

Well if the Menards jack is truly the same jack, manuf-wise, as the yellow Daytona at HF, (but with a better warranty?...I don't recall if that's why the expert member suggested it as a better option than the yellow HF Daytona), then it might be a decent way to go for a 3-ton. As it sounds like being able to service and replace the hydraulics would be Skookum !
Then again, yes, only if you don't mind the weight.

 

[ChevyEFI]

I'm second and third guessing whether I really need a jack that is going to weigh a hundred pounds. The recent discussions in here have me looking hard at the Menards jack. But......again......the weight. And, on the other hand, I already have a two ton Chinese ************* I don't trust. I'm trying to get beyond that.

I got by with a 2 or 2.5 ton Norco, a knockoff of the Napa floor jacks used by garages 20 years ago. For over 15 years. I ended up with the good yellow Daytona and am happy. Lower profile, higher reach, greater capacity, zerks in the wheels, and a 2 piece handle, which is the feature I ended up with the Norco years back.

Spend the coin, get the old POS out of your hair ASAP and live life.

And FWIW, having a heavy floor jack and putting it in / out of your vehicle at the track is not a bad thing if it works for you. It keeps others from wanting to borrow it, another nice feature.

 

[ajchien]

Well if the Menards jack is truly the same jack, manuf-wise, as the yellow Daytona at HF, (but with a better warranty?...I don't recall if that's why the expert member suggested it as a better option than the yellow HF Daytona), then it might be a decent way to go for a 3-ton. As it sounds like being able to service and replace the hydraulics would be Skookum !
Then again, yes, only if you don't mind the weight.

To summarize that Menards thread: The Menards Masterforce, Torin JackBoss (Tractor supply), and Northern tools Yellowjacket all use the same internal seal kit and share the same rebuild kit which includes notably a U-cup on the main lift ram while the Yellow Daytona uses the less durable o-ring/retainer on the main ram. The Snap on is still a mystery to GJ as to the internal seals used.

As for warranty, Yellowjacket is 4 years, Masterforce and Daytona are 3 years, and JackBoss is 1 year.

 

[amandato]

lardy1, based on your first description "your looking for a home jack" I assume it will for the most part always be in your garage. If so, if you ever had to go from your garage to your driveway assuming it is paved you're never going to pick it up, you will roll it where you need it and back, the weight should not be an issue.

As far as seals, bearings, and rebuild kits: I think if you plan on using the jack professionally or want something that you know you can rebuild some day, I would definitely go that route. Otherwise save some coin and get the best jack for the buck that does what you need based on the advice in this thread. Going from not having a jack to a jack like the ones recommended in this thread is like going from a home with a detached outhouse to a home with indoor plumbing, its revolutionary no matter what you end up going with. Before my Arcan XL I used one of those $30 2 ton jacks, they are narrow with barely any lift, plus they can't clear today's' typical sporty model cars. Everyone here has steered you away from that horror, your now debating over bearings and grease fittings vs brand vs cost at this point.

I have a tip: once you get your jack, measure the diameter of the long handle, then go to your favorite home improvement store and get a section of foam piping insulation that is close to that diameter and slide it over the portion of your jack lever that doesn't have the foam protection, it will save your **** later from scratching something.

 

[WinMod21]

To summarize that Menards thread: The Menards Masterforce, Torin JackBoss (Tractor supply), and Northern tools Yellowjacket all use the same internal seal kit and share the same rebuild kit which includes notably a U-cup on the main lift ram while the Yellow Daytona uses the less durable o-ring/retainer on the main ram. The Snap on is still a mystery to GJ as to the internal seals used.
As for warranty, Yellowjacket is 4 years, Masterforce and Daytona are 3 years, and JackBoss is 1 year.

Many thanks, ajchien, for clarifying.

 

[BrandoJames]

I haven't seen it yet…but soon someone will post that the Daytonas are exactly the same as the Snap-Ons and built in the same factory. I'm still not convinced this is true .. it's just too easy for keyboard warriors to post stuff like this…Flame suit on, someone may now attack me for daring to temper the enthusiasm of Daytona=Snap On.

I’m not sure why you posted the above. You remind me of the guy at the bar who randomly shouts insults, while claiming he's not looking for trouble. The reason people believe that the two jacks are essentially the same is because Snap-on’s legal team asserted that in a court of law, and Harbor Freight’s CEO has stated the same in a open letter to his customers.

Excerpt below from Snap-on’s motion in the law suit:

“In 2013, Snap-on engaged a third-party, VIS, LLC, to help it design the new jacks. The jacks that Snap-on eventually developed are known are the FJ200 2-ton jack and the FJ300 3-ton jack. On June 18, 2014, VIS, LLC filed an application for a patent on the design embodied in the FJ200 and the FJ300. On May 26, 2015, the '612 patent was granted to VIS, LLC, which later assigned the patent to Snap-on. Snap-on began selling the FJ200 in August 2014, and it began selling the FJ300 in March 2016. The retail price for the FJ200 is $550.50, and the retail price for the FJ300 is $651.25.

In approximately August 2016, Harbor Freight began selling a floor jack known as the Daytona 3 Ton Super Duty Floor Jack. The retail price for the Daytona is $199, and it has been on sale for as low as $179. Thus, the Daytona is significantly cheaper than Snap-on's jacks. However, Harbor Freight markets the Daytona as being able to perform as well as Snap-on's jacks. After Snap-on learned of the Daytona, its representatives purchased one and compared it to the FJ200, the FJ300, and the '612 patent. Snap-on concluded that the Daytona is substantially visually identical to the design protected by the '612 patent. It therefore commenced this suit and filed the present motion for a preliminary injunction.


Harbor Freight’s CEO Eric Schmidt in an open letter to his customers:

“We work directly with factories to make our tools, so there aren’t layers of markup. The Snap-on FJ300 Jack is a good example. A couple of years ago, we learned that an independent factory in Asia made the jack. They sold it to a middleman, who sold it to Snap-on, who sold it to tool truck franchisee, who then sold it to the customer. Today the jack sells for $726. At every step there’s a markup…so by the time the customer buys the jack, the price has incresed four times or more. The same factory makes the Daytona Super Duty 3 Ton Steel Jack for Harbor Freight. The Daytona has the same performance, features and durability as the Snap-on. Because we work directly with the factory, we can pass the savings on to you and sell it for $209."

https://casetext.com/case/snap-on-inc-v-harbor-freight-tools-united-states-inc

https://tiremeetsroad.com/2019/09/1...ack-snap-on-absolutely-hates-for-this-reason/

 

[Hiball]

I’m not sure why you posted the above. You remind me of the guy at the bar who randomly shouts insults, while claiming he's not looking for trouble. The reason people believe that the two jacks are essentially the same is because Snap-on’s legal team asserted that in a court of law, and Harbor Freight’s CEO has stated the same in a open letter to his customers.

Excerpt below from Snap-on’s motion in the law suit:

“In 2013, Snap-on engaged a third-party, VIS, LLC, to help it design the new jacks. The jacks that Snap-on eventually developed are known are the FJ200 2-ton jack and the FJ300 3-ton jack. On June 18, 2014, VIS, LLC filed an application for a patent on the design embodied in the FJ200 and the FJ300. On May 26, 2015, the '612 patent was granted to VIS, LLC, which later assigned the patent to Snap-on. Snap-on began selling the FJ200 in August 2014, and it began selling the FJ300 in March 2016. The retail price for the FJ200 is $550.50, and the retail price for the FJ300 is $651.25.

In approximately August 2016, Harbor Freight began selling a floor jack known as the Daytona 3 Ton Super Duty Floor Jack. The retail price for the Daytona is $199, and it has been on sale for as low as $179. Thus, the Daytona is significantly cheaper than Snap-on's jacks. However, Harbor Freight markets the Daytona as being able to perform as well as Snap-on's jacks. After Snap-on learned of the Daytona, its representatives purchased one and compared it to the FJ200, the FJ300, and the '612 patent. Snap-on concluded that the Daytona is substantially visually identical to the design protected by the '612 patent. It therefore commenced this suit and filed the present motion for a preliminary injunction.


Harbor Freight’s CEO Eric Schmidt in an open letter to his customers:

“We work directly with factories to make our tools, so there aren’t layers of markup. The Snap-on FJ300 Jack is a good example. A couple of years ago, we learned that an independent factory in Asia made the jack. They sold it to a middleman, who sold it to Snap-on, who sold it to tool truck franchisee, who then sold it to the customer. Today the jack sells for $726. At every step there’s a markup…so by the time the customer buys the jack, the price has incresed four times or more. The same factory makes the Daytona Super Duty 3 Ton Steel Jack for Harbor Freight. The Daytona has the same performance, features and durability as the Snap-on. Because we work directly with the factory, we can pass the savings on to you and sell it for $209."

https://casetext.com/case/snap-on-inc-v-harbor-freight-tools-united-states-inc

https://tiremeetsroad.com/2019/09/1...ack-snap-on-absolutely-hates-for-this-reason/

The Main suit (Not there only legal argument) was over SO’s interpretation that HF infringed on there patent on the Cosmetics of the Jack, in particular the Frame Design, Not the Hydraulic portion of the Jack. Neither HF nor SO have rights to that design, and as already pointed out there are numerous variations of that hydraulic design. The variations range from the type pump piston/Ram seals used and I suspect a multitude of finish options in regards to the cylinder/rod finish.

Just so we are clear before someone accuses me of shilling for SO, I made my opinion clear in the Early SO versus HF floor jack thread. I don’t base my opinions off of Internet forum drama or YouTube shills, I was quick to call out The YouTube Snap on dealer who claimed it was Made in the USA. I still have the Daytona in the back of the shop awaiting a SO to do a direct comparison, I’m just not willing to fork over $600 bucks just to feed my curiosity.

 

[lardy1]

If there was a Northern Tool near me or if they offer free shipping before I buy, I think I would go with the Yellow Jacket if for nothing more than an additional year of warranty over the MasterForce which I can drive to that store in a little over a half hour. I've kinda eliminated Harbor Freight at this point.

 

[Hiball]

If there was a Northern Tool near me or if they offer free shipping before I buy, I think I would go with the Yellow Jacket if for nothing more than an additional year of warranty over the MasterForce which I can drive to that store in a little over a half hour. I've kinda eliminated Harbor Freight at this point.

If it came down to having the ability to warranty a item locally, especially something as heavy as a floor jack, a three versus four year warranty wouldn’t bother me one bit. The ability to walk into the store and handle it versus packing up the unit at Min, and possibly needing to cover the shipping isn’t worth the hassle.

 

[lardy1]

I appreciate that advice, Hiball. And the knowledge you've shared with us. Thank you.

 

[BrandoJames]

The Main suit (Not there only legal argument) was over SO’s interpretation that HF infringed on there patent on the Cosmetics of the Jack, in particular the Frame Design, Not the Hydraulic portion of the Jack.

I understand that you were dragged into this thread by another member—“My friend Hiball says…”
The problem here is that what you’re dismissing as “cosmetics” is quite broad. Most people would consider “cosmetics“ to be superficial traits like the color of the jack or maybe the type of handle grip—things that don’t directly affect the performance of the jack. Snap-on’s design infringement claims go way beyond superficial traits to include the design of the casters, yoke, saddle, etc that do affect how the jack performs.

In regard to the hydraulics of the two jacks, you honestly admit that you don’t have access to the Snap-on jack, so at best you simply don’t know. But let me give you that—even if the hydraulics of the two jacks are different, there’s a lot of critical design elements here that are the same and aren’t cosmetic. I think the difference between us is semantics. You may think aside from the hydaulics, everything else is “cosmetic”. I think the other design elements as stated by Snap-on are important and can’t simply be dismissed as “cosmetic”.

 

[Hiball]

I understand that you were dragged into this thread by another member—“My friend Hiball says…”
The problem here is that what you’re dismissing as “cosmetics” is quite broad. Most people would consider “cosmetics“ to be superficial traits like the color of the jack or maybe the type of handle grip—things that don’t directly affect the performance of the jack. Snap-on’s design infringement claims go way beyond superficial traits to include the design of the casters, yoke, saddle, etc that do affect how the jack performs.

In regard to the hydraulics of the two jacks, you honestly admit that you don’t have access to the Snap-on jack, so at best you simply don’t know. But let me give you that—even if the hydraulics of the two jacks are different, there’s a lot of critical design elements here that are the same and aren’t cosmetic. I think the difference between us is semantics. You may think aside from the hydaulics, everything else is “cosmetic”. I think the other design elements as stated by Snap-on are important and can’t simply be dismissed as “cosmetic”.

The Patent that SO listed in the lawsuit pertains to the “ornamental/design” of the Jack, follow your links and you will see how They show side by side comparisons of there patent drawings to the Daytona . Again that was a small part of there suit for trade dress infringement, the “Compare to” and $$$ imbalance probably tipped the scale in favor of taking a stand.

Although I haven’t been inside the SO jack, I’ve been around Hydraulic jack units long enough to know what to look for, there are only a handful of designs in the market. It’s not a New design, thus No argument on its Patent from either party, it’s been used for years in many flavors, the only component difference is the type of seals used along with the machining required to accept the Piston seal on the pump pistons versus a Rod/Gland/Oring seal. The Only question in my mind is does the SO use a Poly Ucup on the Main Ram similar time the yellow jacket, Torin and Masterforce and is the cylinder/ram finishing different. I’m confident that SO represented there design elements as superior, otherwise why pursue it legally. Does the round flanges design increase strength over angled designs? Who knows in this application, but they took a stand and IMO it only brought notoriety to the HF Daytona.

Oh.. don’t let me forget about the two magnets they thru in the reservoir.

I also wanted say, don’t take my stance as a argument. I’ve been in just about HF versus SO jack thread here at GJ, Including the one that was referenced in the suit. I enjoy the history of Hydraulic lift equipment and when SO dealers started advertising that these New jacks where Made in the USA I was surprised to say the least.. Hell Even SO listed the COO as China on there website.

Have a Good day.

 

[ajchien]

...and as already pointed out there are numerous variations of that hydraulic design. The variations range from the type pump piston/Ram seals used and I suspect a multitude of finish options in regards to the cylinder/rod finish....

Hiball (or anyone else that might know) -

Have you seen any variation in the pump cylinder bore area sizes in any of these jacks? (I’m assuming there could be differences between 2-3-4 ton models and differences between alum vs. steel jacks .. but any size differences between the 3 tons steels?)

 

[WittHay]

I’m not sure why you posted the above. You remind me of the guy at the bar who randomly shouts insults, while claiming he's not looking for trouble. The reason people believe that the two jacks are essentially the same is because Snap-on’s legal team asserted that in a court of law, and Harbor Freight’s CEO has stated the same in a open letter to his customers.

The bar room moral is If you come up with a different design of something and want it made in China. Hire the best lawyers in the land before you do anything.

For years jacks looked like the Hein-Werner in the first picture. Snap-on designed a jack that was longer, heavier, lifted higher but was also countered for lower vehicles. Also had a double pumper lift.

Harbor Freight has somebody in China to assemble a jack that copied the Snap-on design. Also the Daytona has a 3 year warranty while all other HF jacks have a 90 day warranty. 2nd picture is two different jacks that have a similar design

The 3rd type of this design jacks are the Torins, Leather Jacket, Meynards and Farm Boss.

There has to be some undisclosed legal rulings governing these jacks. The only ones available in all of North America are Snap-on. The other ones are only available in diy oriented box stores in the US . Torin has no information about these jacks on there website.

 

[anndel]

.....and the SO vs HF saga continues....... Back when I was looking for a jack, I was mainly looking for a Made in U.S.A. at a reasonable price and passed on china jacks. I looked for Japan, Europe or Taiwan made jacks but it wasn't readily available. I looked at Milwaukee Hydraulics but they quoted me a shipping cost of $500 to Hawaii and apologized for that. I told them no apologies then found Hein Werner by SFA and bought the 2 ton version 16 years ago and never looked back. I just lube the grease points, casters and change the hydraulic fluid every year.

 

[BrandoJames]

The bar room moral is If you come up with a different design of something and want it made in China. Hire the best lawyers in the land before you do anything.

Your pic of the Daytona and Snappy side-by-side...those two jacks look almost identical. I own the Daytona jack, but can see why Snap-on threw a fit.