3-Way 3 way switch and live outlet

[OhioDIYer]

Hey all,

Just joined today and I'm very impressed by the wonderful buildings and extensive knowledge that everyone shares.

In my case, however, I have a 70-year-old shed-type, mostly cedar, detached garage. She is a beloved, aging companion that usually protects two cars, but provides me with a sheltered workshop when necessary. She's about 40 feet behind my home.

I have spent much of the summer, off-and-on, replacing the cedar siding that was split, replacing her 'barn sash' window that was beyond repair, patching the flat roof, and giving her a new coat (or three) of paint.

She has 3 aerial overhead electrical wires from the house. These wires enable 2 3-way switches to turn her exterior flood light off and on. One of the 3-way switches is at the back door of my home and the other is in the garage itself.

I'd like to install a garage door opener, and I have basic electrical skills.

What I am confused about is how to install an electrical outlet that is always "hot." The 3-way switches cause the hot wires to switch between 2 of the 3 overhead wires, the traveler wires. If I wired the new garage door opener outlet to the flood light, I'd have a situation where the only time that the garage door opener would work is when the flood light is on. If I wired the opener outlet to one of the traveler wires, the opener would only work when that particular traveler wire was "hot."

I found a combination switch by Leviton, single pole/3-way, that might solve my problem (Leviton No. 5241). There's a screw (pole) on a second single pole switch that would be "hot" or "live" always. I could use that to bring the hot wire up to the new garage door outlet.

I'm just wondering if there's a better solution than the Leviton combination switch.

Thanks is advance!

 

[MrMark]

I don't see how you are going to do what you want to do with the 3 wires, no matter what switch you find.

The three way needs the three wires to work as you recognize. Two travelers plus the neutral. The power comes in to the three way switch at your house. The only power to the garage is switched on one traveler or the other. You need another run of wires to have that outlet.

 

[mrb]

I don't see how you are going to do what you want to do with the 3 wires, no matter what switch you find.

there's always a way

Note to all: this is for discussion and theory only. dont do it.

 

[MrMark]

You love those relays! I think you were born with one in the crib.

 

[mrb]

i like this. the outlet will briefly go out and come back on when switched (theres a way around that but not worth the hassle) but otherwise is on all the time. The relays and a box are probably cheaper than the material to run another wire to the garage....

 

[DeuceDude]

I would do away with the 3-way switches and run a motion or photo cell on the flood light. Wire up for opener and problem solved...

 

[OhioDIYer]

there's always a way

Note to all: this is for discussion and theory only. dont do it.

Are the relays available at the big box hardware stores or are they an electrical supply house type item?

 

[DeuceDude]

Maybe I'm missing something...
Why on earth would you want to keep the 3-Way switches and not just have one switch at the house feeding hot out to garage?

 

[ishiboo]

I would change the 3 wires over to a constant power feed, and use X10 or similar to have a switch at each location.

Relays would work, but IMO it's more trouble. You do not need two relays, just one double throw relay.

 

[dittle fart around]

I would do away with the 3-way switches and run a motion or photo cell on the flood light. Wire up for opener and problem solved...

This is the way to go. If you didn't want the flood light on all night use a motion detector. If your planning on anything more than 20 amps run new wire.

 

[OhioDIYer]

Thanks for the tips, guys. I decided to test the reliability of X10 for my garage's particular situation. I purchased a controller, transceiver and appliance module.

So far, everything seems a go, so I'll rewire the light and the other circuitry in the garage over the next few days. If the X10 continues doing what it's supposed to do, it will be on to installing a new opener.

 

[ddrewyor]

I would change the 3 wires over to a constant power feed, and use X10 or similar to have a switch at each location.

Relays would work, but IMO it's more trouble. You do not need two relays, just one double throw relay.

Just because I'm a cheap ******* , I believe you could use single pole, double throw relay and it will work (assumed you were talking about a double pole, double throw relay). A relay would still have a momentary drop on the line and doing that repeatedly probably would shorten the openers life.


Dave

 

[jeffmoss26]

That's a relay good idea.

 

[nehog]

use the new 'wireless' switches/dimmers for the lights and the wires then can be hot all the time (giving neutral, hot and ground). HD has 'em.

 

[mrb]

good point, a SPDT relay on one of the travelers would do it. That said 120v 20-40a SPST relays are cheap and plentiful with several surplus electronics places selling them (new unused) for $4-$6 whereas a 20 amp SPDT is going to be quite a bit more expensive.

 

[ddrewyor]

That's a relay good idea.

shocking if you are not careful

 

[theoldwizard1]

I found a combination switch by Leviton, single pole/3-way, that might solve my problem (Leviton No. 5241). There's a screw (pole) on a second single pole switch that would be "hot" or "live" always. I could use that to bring the hot wire up to the new garage door outlet

Looking at the instructions for the 5241, I believe you did not understand them correctly. The 5241 is just 2 switches in one housing. One us a typical 3-wat switch. The second is just standard switch.

The second switch does control a separate load, but that load would be in you house.

 

[theoldwizard1]

good point, a SPDT relay on one of the travelers would do it. That said 120v 20-40a SPST relays are cheap and plentiful with several surplus electronics places selling them (new unused) for $4-$6 whereas a 20 amp SPDT is going to be quite a bit more expensive.

Digikey or Jameco. SPDT, 120VAC coil, 120V 15A contacts under $10 (plus shipping)

Drill Spot under $10 free shipping

 

[OhioDIYer]

Digikey or Jameco. SPDT, 120VAC coil, 120V 15A contacts under $10 (plus shipping)

Drill Spot under $10 free shipping

You were correct, Wizard. I was mistaken about the Leviton switch.

Thanks for the link to the relay. I'll get one and test that out too.