3 Way Pilot Light Switch Problems

[Sorachi Ace]

Painting the mudroom has led me to changing out all the brown switches and outlets. The previous owner used switches with pilot lights for the garage ceiling and exterior lights, I like them and decided to replace them with Leviton 5638 rockers.

The one for the exterior lights is working like it should [it's on the load side]. But the one for the ceiling bulbs, lights up when they're off or I can cycle the two switches (one in the garage, one in the mudroom) in the order of ON garage, OFF mudroom, ON garage, OFF mudroom and then it starts working as a proper pilot on the second OFF.

The mudroom switch is on the hot side, so there is an extra wire carrying the load power from the garage box back to the black switch pigtail in the mudroom box.

I'm a pretty slow on electrical stuff so maybe it's really obvious to someone else. I'll try and answer any clarifying questions as best I can. I attached a picture of the back of the switch and the wiring diagram that came with it.

 

[mm08822]

Next time, don't paint.

Let's make sure the 3 way set-up is working properly first before worrying about pilot lights.
It sounds like one of the travellers (wires on brass screws) is switched with the "common" or point (black screw) wire on one of the 3 ways.

First thing I would do is make sure the black hot wire from the 120vac source is on the black screw of the 3way sw.

Second is to make sure the garage light is on the black screw of the other 3way switch.

If these are correctly wired, then from either switch location, you should be able to control the light regardless of the other switch position.

Confirm/correct this first and reply back.

 

[TRWham]

Painting the mudroom has led me to changing out all the brown switches and outlets. The previous owner used switches with pilot lights for the garage ceiling and exterior lights, I like them and decided to replace them with Leviton 5638 rockers.

The one for the exterior lights is working like it should [it's on the load side]. But the one for the ceiling bulbs, lights up when they're off or I can cycle the two switches (one in the garage, one in the mudroom) in the order of ON garage, OFF mudroom, ON garage, OFF mudroom and then it starts working as a proper pilot on the second OFF.

The mudroom switch is on the hot side, so there is an extra wire carrying the load power from the garage box back to the black switch pigtail in the mudroom box.

I see that your switch does have a pilot function, but it will require a neutral connection to do that.

I'm a pretty slow on electrical stuff so maybe it's really obvious to someone else. I'll try and answer any clarifying questions as best I can. I attached a picture of the back of the switch and the wiring diagram that came with it.

A lighted switch does normally light up when the light is off. It's not a pilot light- it's a find the switch in the dark light. There are pilot light switches, but that's not usually how they function in a residence.

ETA: I see that your switch does have a pilot function, but it needs to be connected to a neutral to do that. Is the neutral connected to the switch?

 

[mm08822]

The S3 pilots are lit when load on, different than the S1's.

 

[Sorachi Ace]

Next time, don't paint.

Solid advice.

To clarify, both switches can operate the lights independent of the other. To determine hot vs load, I used a voltmeter, grounded to the metal box and put the other lead to the black wire in question. The mudroom switch giving me trouble read ~115v and I determined it to be the hot side. I did not check the black traveler wire, but could do that tomorrow.

The switch is connected to the neutral in the box.

 

[mm08822]

Solid advice.

To clarify, both switches can operate the lights independent of the other. To determine hot vs load, I used a voltmeter, grounded to the metal box and put the other lead to the black wire in question. The mudroom switch giving me trouble read ~115v and I determined it to be the hot side. I did not check the black traveler wire, but could do that tomorrow.

The switch is connected to the neutral in the box.

It's a good start that the S3's work from both positions.

You need a neutral and switched wire (same one connected to the controlled light) in each S3 box for the pilot lights.

Would be best to sketch all of the wires w/colors in and out of each box and as connected to the switches. Include the brass and black screw terminal details on each switch. Post the sketch or take pics and post.

I'm curious how you have a neutral and switched hot at each S3. Is the wiring method cable or conduit?

 

[AntonLargiader]

A pic of the wiring in each switch box would help.

That diagram shows four wires (neutral, pilot,, and two travelers) going between the switches. Do you have all four?

 

[Sorachi Ace]

It is run with cable.

There was a labeled, spare wire (red) between the boxes, I used that for the "4th Pilot" wire. My understanding was that I needed to bring load power back to the pilot switch pigtail.

Took pictures and drew a sketch with limited colors, Brown=Black, Red=Red, Blue=White. The neutral is the wire that was attached to the old switch, I was careful to only wire one switch at a time.

 

[mm08822]

In your sketch -
how does the neutral get to the light?
Where is the pilot light connected on the garage s3?
Where is the neutral connected on the garage s3?
How is it that you have 2 reds between the S3's? Is the circuit split between 2 cables?

 

[BillK]

I think my first step would be to put it all back the way it was with the old switches and see if everything works properly. Then swap one switch at a time and see what happens.

 

[Jim greengo]

Next time, don't paint.

Let's make sure the 3 way set-up is working properly first before worrying about pilot lights.
It sounds like one of the travellers (wires on brass screws) is switched with the "common" or point (black screw) wire on one of the 3 ways.

First thing I would do is make sure the black hot wire from the 120vac source is on the black screw of the 3way sw.

Second is to make sure the garage light is on the black screw of the other 3way switch.

If these are correctly wired, then from either switch location, you should be able to control the light regardless of the other switch position.

Confirm/correct this first and reply back.

 

[Sorachi Ace]

In your sketch -
how does the neutral get to the light?
I'll just let my electrical incompetence show, I have no idea.
Where is the pilot light connected on the garage s3?
There isn't a pilot light on the garage s3. The mudroom connects via the second red.
Where is the neutral connected on the garage s3?
No pilot light so it doesn't need a neutral connection, right?[see answer to question 1]
How is it that you have 2 reds between the S3's? Is the circuit split between 2 cables?
Yes, the spare red that I referred to in my last post is from another cable.

The mudroom box has 3 switches: single pole switch for exterior garage peak light(seems to be wired as a pass-through for an Intermatic timer), 3 way pilot for exterior garage side lights(this one works), 3 way pilot for interior garage ceiling lights(this one doesn't work). It's pretty rat's nesty. There are 2 wire nuts combining 3 white wires, a jumper between them, and one jumper per nut connecting to one pilot switch(2 connections with 5 wires present at both). Also a connection of 5 black wires bringing power to the box. There is a yellow romex cable (12/3? bare ground, black, white, red) that seems newer running between the boxes, that's where the spare red wire came from, this cable appears to be carrying hot power to the garage switch and load power to the mudroom switch for the S3 pilot that is working properly.

I might be ready to just poke my head in and see if the light is on or off...