30 x 60 Gambrel

[TracerRound]

I have been thinking over a detached garage for about seven years now and this is where I am at. This would be around Hickory, NC.

30'x60' with a Gambrel attic
4ft CMU stem wall with 9ft 2x6 walls on top
The current slope of the ground is about 44in from the front/south side to the back/north side which is why the stem wall is so high (cut into the slope)
~12' 9" ceiling height over the slab
4in slab probably poured after the roof is on
Gambrel would give about 20'x59'x8' upstairs
Exterior stairs on the left/west to access the upstairs
Lead-to on the back/north side for tractor implements and some wood storage
Separate attached shed on the left/west side for air compressor and dust collector

Interior would be split with about a 20.5'x29' wood shop and the remainder 38'x29' would be a three car garage with one man door between
Thinking about plumbing a 6'x6' bathroom with pocket door on the left most car bay (where I plan to park the tractor). This would have a corner shower and toilet, sink on the garage side. Gravity is on my side to get to my septic and it is the same path to get the power from the house
Interior height and car bay size will give me options for a two post lift in the future if I go that way
The only windows would be the front/south facing wall which would be in the double doors and garage doors.
Mini-split for at least the workshop and something for the bathroom to keep the pipes from freezing.
100/90 amp from the house

I attached some drawings from Sketchup using the Medeek extensions. The intention is to mimic a traditional red board and batten barn with white trim (I cant seem to change the colors from gray board and batten on the Medeek extensions). The house is brick but I certainly do not want to brick this garage.

Any thoughts? I have not spoke to the county yet but based on my research of the code here, this all appears to be allowed. That is my next step but wanted to throw a sanity check to the GJ. We had our house designed by a local architect but I have not spoke to one about this yet.

 

[MushCreek]

I have a similar, but smaller barn. I put my stairs inside. If you're going to do serious storage in the loft, rig up a freight elevator somewhere. Mine is 2'X4' (could have been bigger), powered by a 1500 lb. 120V winch. It doesn't have any rails to keep it aligned; I just have a rope tied to it to keep it from spinning as it's being lowered or raised.

 

[TracerRound]

Thanks for the input. The upstairs has no plans at this time so the stairs may not happen at first. I tried to fit the stairs inside coming up over the bathroom along the back wall to minimize the floor space required but the gambrel knee wall doesn't allow the headroom there. I think the only way it would work is along the interior wall.

Assuming the winch is using a pulley off the roof trusses, did you have to do any reinforcement for that?

 

[MushCreek]

Yes, I attached a beam to the trusses, then put 4X4 posts down to the floor, resting on more 4X4's to distribute the load over several floor joists as well. I don't know what the capacity is; but I never put more than a few hundred pounds at a time. I don't really trust the Harbor Fright winch with more than that. Of course, no one is allowed under the elevator when it is in use. My loft floor is built to 60 lbs per square foot, so it is stout.

I made a boat hoist out of a split drum worm gear winch. The split drum allows for two cables, which would be a better set-up so the elevator car doesn't rotate. I drive the split drum winch with a cordless drill. If I ever redo the elevator set-up, I'll rig up a split drum winch.

https://www.etrailer.com/Trailer-Winch/Dutton~Lainson/DL10952.html?feed=npn&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAoJC-BhCSARIsAPhdfSioyB3S7de2YA5SvJEB6KCJwqveaXs2F9n2Lne8yMKfWeGp23e4DlAaAqsdEALw_wcB

My stairs are on an interior wall dividing the barn. One side is my shop; the other side is a finished great room. I use the space under the stairs for storage, so not too much wasted space. My barn is 28X48 overall.

 

[TracerRound]

Straight stairs may not work inside along the interior wall either due to the height and lack of landing space at the top. The width loss isnt bad, looks like it cuts into the 10ft door less than 1.5ft for a 36in stair width. L shaped would work and gives me a bit to shift towards the front to ensure headroom over the sink on that outside bathroom wall under them.

 

[Craig Balzer]

Two quick comments before my OCD kicks in:
Exterior staircase will NOT be fun in winter
6'x6' sounds too small for a full bath - mine is ~8'x8'

I compiled these notes during/after my Garaj Mahal build. Looks like you have the main dimensions already set, but you may find some nuggets here (I have posted this several times here so if this is redundant, my apologies). My shop was built to work on cars.
See attached PDF
My 2300 sq ft Hobby Shop is complete and I am working in it daily and still populating it with stuff.

What stuff? How is it all gonna fit? Where’s it gonna go. What goes next to what? See below

GENERAL
• Build as big as you can afford/fit on your property (or you'll regret it).
• You gotta know your plan inside and out – when the builder asks to move something elsewhere, only you can visualize the impact on other things / stuff
• Be flexible when reality shows up – also be true to your overall plan
• Windows? PRO: natural light – CON: entry point for a$$holes
• Skylight(s)? PRO: natural light – CON: then no attic
• Keep the building dimensions in multiples of 4 feet – reduces wastage of wood
• A mezzanine is good for long-time storage of large or awkward items; plan for where the staircase is gonna be placed; plan how to get heavy items up there and back down

FLOOR
• Gonna place light(s) in floor under lift??
• First thing you lay down is 10 mil vapor barrier
• Then closed-cell insulation – 2 inches thick
• In-floor tubing for radiant goes in before concrete pour – plan carefully if a lift is planned. Should be thicker concrete and limited pex tubing near posts
• Lay some plastic conduit in the floor before concrete is poured from the circuit box to the three other walls to allow future wiring to be run without tearing into walls or mounting conduit on the walls
o Since I forgot to do this, I installed a 2-3" PVC pipe in the upper left-hand corner of the circuit breaker box that terminates in the attic with another sweeping 90° curve. This easily allows fishing a new line (or two) into the circuit box. (See photo) The girts needed to be notched so the OSB would lay flat and metal straps were used to hold the pipe in place.

• Thickness? 4” works. Except under lift – my pour was 9-12 inches thick under posts.
• Plan now for smoothness of finish on concrete - - epoxy covering?
• Gonna wash cars in there – floor drain(s)? Lot’s of environmental issues to learn

WALLS
• 2x4 vs 2x6 construction. A 2x6 is pennies more per board and allows thicker insulation
• I have R19 in my walls (Colorado) and the building is noticeably cooler this summer and stays warm in winter during sub-freezing temps
• I have R49 blown-in above the ceiling
• Sheath with OSB vs Dry Wall. Dry wall looks prettier but to hang anything heavy requirements finding a stud or two. OSB has more industrial appearance but a shelf goes wherever you want to put it
• Windows – already covered
• Height of walls? 12 or 13’ allows most lifts to fit (I have 14’ ceilings in main room)
• Tall walls require more heating capacity, and costs more to heat

ELECTRICAL
• Plan where your 110v outlets are gonna be, then add 50% more of them (mine are 4 feet apart except where a window gets in the way); I have 45x 120V outlets in my 2300 sq ft hobby shop
• Are you gonna use 15- or 20-Amp circuits? (different wiring requirements and different fixtures)
• Place them 45-48” above the floor level so they aren’t hidden later by benches, toolboxes, etc
• Plan for outlet(s) on the exterior of each wall
• Plan for outlet(s) in ceiling for lift or drop light or other
• Plan for outlet(s) in ceiling for garage door opener
• Plan for outlets up high on wall: wall clock, TV, modern “smart” speakers, other
• Lights – fluorescent or LED? Dimmable? Dimmable LEDs are available and require different wiring and dimming switch
• Plan for exterior lights – Colorado Code requires a light above each man-door opening
• Plan for exterior lights – gonna have a patio nearby or BarBQ pit or horseshoe pit or Christmas lights?
• Plan for dedicated circuit for heater
• Plan for dedicated circuit for water heater
• Now plan where circuits are gonna start. Each can handle 8-10 outlets and should start with a GFIC outlet
• Plan where your 220v outlets are gonna be. Consider welders, air compressor, lift, oven (powder coating), special tools, etc. Even if you won’t have these until the future, plan now to power them.

WATER
• Gonna have water in the garage? A sink to wash up before going into the house is priceless
• Gonna have water in the garage? A sink to wash parts is useful
• A shower is priceless to avoid getting SWMBO’s towels and linens filthy
• Toilet?
• Hot water is nice to wash cars in the winter
• Plan a hose bibb on at least one exterior wall and maybe one inside

A/C

HEAT
• Gonna use in-floor PEX? -- see notes on concrete.
• If not, propane or electric heater will need power and proper placement and capacity
• See comments re height of walls

STUFF
What toys do you have? What toys do you plan to have? Sketch your floor plan to scale on gridded paper; don’t forget to include windows, doors, and the circuit. And then, to scale, place your toys. All of them. The easy ones are toolbox(es), benches, welders, air compressor, and the like. Did you remember to ID a place to store floor jacks? Creeper? Jack stands? Ladder(s)?

Find a place for place everything:
o Welder
o Plasma Cutter
o Grinder
o Polisher / Buffer
o Powder Coating Oven
o Blast Cabinet
o Parts Washer
o Microwave
o Refrigerator
o Charging station for cordless tools
o Desk lamp
o TV
o Stereo
o Computer
o Phone
o Wall Art / Neon signs
o Other

Expanded details:
STORAGE
• Plan cabinet(s) to store hardware (nuts, bolts, washers, this and that)
• Plan cabinet(s) to store supplies, such as (paint, cleaners, paper towels, etc)

FLUIDS for the car
• Oil
• Oil Filters
• Fuel Filter(s)
• Gear Lube
• Differential Lube/Additive
• ATF
• Brake fluid
• Anti-Freeze
• Power Steering Fluid
• Marvel Mystery Oil
• Starting Fluid
• Lacquer Thinner
• Grease for ball joints/tie rod ends etc

CLEANING yourself
• Hand Cleaner
• Latex (or Nitrile) Gloves
• Shop Towels

CLEANERS for the Car/Engine/Garage/Floor
• Castrol Concentrated Cleaner
• Engine Cleaner
• Brake Cleaner
• Carb Cleaner
• Rust Remover
• Brushable Rustoleum
• Degreaser
• Acetone
• Mineral Spirits

BEAUTY PRODUCTS
• Polish
• Wax
• Touch-up paint
• Chrome Cleaner
• Chrome Kleener (Autosol)

WORKING on the Car
• Di-electric grease
• Bearing Grease
• 3-1 oil
• Silicon Spray
• Anti-seize compound
• Loctite
• Teflon tape
• Acousti-Seal, Exhaust System Sealing Compound
• Wellseal Gasket Compound / Gasket sealer
• Wire of various colors and sizes
• Electrical Connectors
• Masking Tape
• Duct Tape
• Electric Tape
• Contact Cement
• 3M Weather-strip Adhesive
• General Purpose Adhesive Solvent Part #: 051135-08984
• 3M Adhesive Remover (Ronson lighter fluid)
• PB Blaster or Kroil -or Knock’er Loose
• Wire ties
• Mechanic's wire
• Cotter pins
• C-clips
• E-clips
• Snap rings
• Hose clamps
• Roloc pads/grinding discs
• Die-grinder burrs/bits
• Buffing wheels/compound
• Razor blades
• Utility knife blades
• Sandpaper
• Emory cloth
• Scotch-brite
• Grease fittings
• Fuel line/brake line and fittings
• Rubber hose: windshield washer, heater, radiator, fuel, vacuum
• Spray paint
• JB Weld

THE MOST IMPORTANT POINT: TAKE TONS OF PHOTOS.
Just like when you disassemble a car or major component, referring to a before photo is priceless during reassembly. I have been able to show my GC photos of the routing of power lines or placement of studs or whatever on at least 5 occasions. Saved guess work by him and potential oop's during drilling or nailing.

 

[MushCreek]

I don't have any good pics of my stairs. I had to go three steps up to a landing, and then 90 degree turn and up. My ceiling height is 12' 4". I could have made them steeper, but I'm old and getting older.

 

[TracerRound]

Thank you Craig for the detailed tips!! I believe code here requires a bathroom with standing shower to be min 32sqft so I am close to that but plan to have the sink outside which will save some room.