30A 2 Pole Toggle Switch Wont Fit in 1-Gang Mudring

[teamextreme]

Trying to figure out how to resolve this. I'm wiring my shop up now and installing a 30A toggle switch as a disconnect switch for my compressor. It's installed in a 4sq deep box with a 1 gang mudring and the switch is too wide to fit inside the 1 gang mudring. Very strange issue, how can Leviton make a switch that doesn't fit in a standard 1 gang mudring? I consiered putting a 2 gang mudring on and tapping a hole in the center, but the 2 gang mudrings have a vertical slit cut right in the center that prevents tapping a hole there. A single gang switch cover probably wouldn't cover a 2 gang opening either. My only thought is to grind the opening out wider, but I'm reluctant to do that. Anybody have experience with this? Any suggestions?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What is the HP rating on the compressor?

 

[teamextreme]

How did I know you'd ask that, you're getting too predictable with that one wilies,
7hp "advertised"
replacement motor has a nameplate of 5hp, "15-16 FLA" (never seen a range of FLA, weird).
How does that address my issue though?

 

[matt_i]

Not sure if it fits your situation, but how about a Raco 800C exposed work cover. Not flush but dished.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

How did I know you'd ask that, you're getting too predictable with that one wilies,
7hp "advertised"
replacement motor has a nameplate of 5hp, "15-16 FLA" (never seen a range of FLA, weird).
How does that address my issue though?

lol

That looks like an MS-302. I installed one of those last year for a 5hp compressor and i had to use a raised cover IIRCC. wait...I cant remember for sure what i used but it definitely wasnt a mud ring.

Those are good switches....

 

[marinusdees]

How did I know you'd ask that, you're getting too predictable with that one wilies,
7hp "advertised"
replacement motor has a nameplate of 5hp, "15-16 FLA" (never seen a range of FLA, weird).
How does that address my issue though?

With a nameplate rating of 15-16 FLAmps, why do you need a 30 amp switch?? And, that motor isn't even close to 5 hp, let alone 7. Skinny horses.

 

[Speedy Petey]

With a nameplate rating of 15-16 FLAmps, why do you need a 30 amp switch?? And, that motor isn't even close to 5 hp, let alone 7. Skinny horses.

Agreed, on both points. Use a 20A switch rated for the motor you have.

 

[pattenp]

Hold on a second. I assume this is a 30A circuit, if so, then the switch needs to be rated for 30A.

 

[mm08822]

Hold on a second. I assume this is a 30A circuit, if so, then the switch needs to be rated for 30A.

If all is hardwired and no receptacle, then it is considered a dedicated motor circuit. Switch needs to meet/exceed hp rating of motor.

 

[teamextreme]

Hold on a second. I assume this is a 30A circuit, if so, then the switch needs to be rated for 30A.

Correct, with the 16A load, I ran a 30A circuit and am using a 30A switch to match. It's been a long time since I originally hooked it up in my old shop, but IIRC the mfg recommendation was 30A circuit.

Matt, raised cover won't work very cleanly with my OSB finish that will eventually be done.

If I've stumped the guru's here, I'm in trouble. I think I'll either grind the sides of the 1 gang mudring, or see if I can find a 2 gang that doesn't have the slit in the middle.

 

[davetulk]

That switch is meant to be mounted in a surface mount box.

Here is a link to the product line http://levitoncompanyinc.com/OA_HTML/ibcGetAttachment.jsp?cItemId=61FQGRMOZcVB3rfTjzQcIA&label=IBE&appName=IBE&LEVCOMP_pses=ZG981807CB692475F286B0501A3CE262584DE12DD9E4B9FAF8A5A818ED20D88D26CFBA871ABF45222CDBAC6E081F7A0BC652FDD8538BD65DAB&minisite=10251

Not sure if that is an option for you

 

[CJ7VFR]

Before you go and grind off any of the body of the switch, try removing the cover plate and then feed the switch in thru the cover plate from the back. Then put the whole thing back onto the box.

I have had to do this for a few switches over the years that had bodies or other protrusions sticking off the sides of the bodies that would not fit thru the openings of cover plates like the one you have shown.

You might have to wiggle the cover plate around over the switch a bit to get the mounting holes on the switch to go over top of the threaded holes on the cover plate, but it should work.

Jim

 

[teamextreme]

Before you go and grind off any of the body of the switch, try removing the cover plate and then feed the switch in thru the cover plate from the back. Then put the whole thing back onto the box.

I have had to do this for a few switches over the years that had bodies or other protrusions sticking off the sides of the bodies that would not fit thru the openings of cover plates like the one you have shown.

You might have to wiggle the cover plate around over the switch a bit to get the mounting holes on the switch to go over top of the threaded holes on the cover plate, but it should work.

Jim

I was going to grind the mudring, not the switch. Grinding the switch would remove the protective barrier from the terminals and make it more prone to shorting out on the mudring. Installing the switch from the backside would result in an installation that the switch could never be removed once the OSB was installed (if it would even fit that way, I don't think it could).

Dave, I don't see anything in that link that indicates surface mount box only, but that does seem to be what their intent is. Strange they make a switch that won't work in this application.

I think I've come up with a genius solution, however. Have to do some measuring tonight. I'll post up pics if it works. Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[pattenp]

If all is hardwired and no receptacle, then it is considered a dedicated motor circuit. Switch needs to meet/exceed hp rating of motor.

True. I was thinking circuit with outlet.

 

[CJ7VFR]

I was going to grind the mudring, not the switch. Grinding the switch would remove the protective barrier from the terminals and make it more prone to shorting out on the mudring. Installing the switch from the backside would result in an installation that the switch could never be removed once the OSB was installed (if it would even fit that way, I don't think it could)..

I see. For some reason I thought you were going to see if you could remove those pieces of plastic on the switch body that were sticking out around the wire connection screws.

Jim

 

[AntonLargiader]

Strange they make a switch that won't work in this application..

How so? To me that's sort of like saying that I'm surprised Michelin makes a tire that doesn't fit my car. Of the many products they make, one of them is that one and they will supply an appropriate enclosure if you need one.

It's an industrial control. Wall boxes and mud rings are just not part of that vocabulary. Most industrial controls I've worked with are in much larger panels that are drilled and punched for the particular task. However, if I were in your shoes I would just call Leviton and see if they know of a standard wired solution before I modified anything.

FWIW if you're modifying something to hold that switch, you may be going outside that particular part's listing.

 

[3rdgen]

I made that mistake on a job last year, they don't make a single gang mud ring for those switches. What I ended up doing is cutting the drywall out and putting a 4x4 extension ring and then a single switch cover like above so it stuck out of the wall about an inch.

 

[PT Doc]

Not sure if it fits your situation, but how about a Raco 800C exposed work cover. Not flush but dished.

This will sort you out.

 

[teamextreme]

No, this will sort me out...

My idea worked like a charm.
Since the 2 gang MR has the slit in the middle I couldn't tap a hole there. So I ground out the middle where the slits were, cut out 2 sections of MR from a sacrificial older style MR, drillled 2 holes in the top and bottom of the 2 gang for rosette welds and welded the sections in.
First pic is the 2 gang MR prepped with holes and ground out center, next to standard 2 gang in comparison.
Second pic is finished welded MR.
Third pic is finished product installed.
I plan on using a 2 gang blank plate and cut out a slot for the switch.
And for anyone insistent on letting me know I've violated the listing of this device and I'm at serious risk of burning my shop down, spare me, I don't care.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Nice job. I have a question. I was at my local HD store yesterday buying some stuff for my bathroom remodel, and I looked at the different mudring setups they had in the store. I saw one that was like the one you created, only completely flat, and instead of having the entire center section open, it had a larger rectangular cutout than the other mudrings.

Here is a pick of it. The center cutout is a bit larger than the normal mudring cutouts, probably to install the switches like you have. I wonder if your local HD or other big box stores don't have it in stock.

You have already fixed your issue by creating your own, but for future reference for someone else, would this have solved your problem? Or did you still require the mudrings outer part to be raised up to fit the switch in the box?

Jim

 

[Git]

That is what I like about Amazon

If I look that switch up (Leviton MS302) it will show items "frequently bought togethor" and in this case, it looks like people are buying a "Type 1 Enclosure (Surface mount box as someone else mentioned)

Here is the link to the enclosure and they have a nice install video there also
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003AU1QMS/?tag=atomicindus08-20

The 'cover' is actually the front and two sides

 

[teamextreme]

Those covers are all set up for a finish that doesn't include any covering by drywall, OSB, etc. I needed a 1/2" rise for OSB install. That flat mudring is a strange piece, I guess you'd use it in conjuction with standard wallplate instead of a raised cover for exposed or surface mount installations.

 

[PT Doc]

What about using a spark ring or junction box extension? They come in various configurations for numerous outlets.

 

[PT Doc]

http://www.cableorganizer.com/arlin...I-BE2&ef_id=VrlD2QAAAEYDHxw6:20170115163107:s

Junction box extender.

 

[Dirtydan69]

Nice job. I have a question. I was at my local HD store yesterday buying some stuff for my bathroom remodel, and I looked at the different mudring setups they had in the store. I saw one that was like the one you created, only completely flat, and instead of having the entire center section open, it had a larger rectangular cutout than the other mudrings.

Here is a pick of it. The center cutout is a bit larger than the normal mudring cutouts, probably to install the switches like you have. I wonder if your local HD or other big box stores don't have it in stock.

You have already fixed your issue by creating your own, but for future reference for someone else, would this have solved your problem? Or did you still require the mudrings outer part to be raised up to fit the switch in the box?

Jim

Exactly what I was thinking when reading this. The device can be shimmed out with the proper shims. For that matter one could just trim the sides out on the original plate leaving the top and bottom. Pretty simply with no overkill engineering.