30X40X12 - Addition - Need Advice & Ideas

[SpeedinLemon]

Hello All – Many of you have followed along and provided much needed pointers, ideas and encouragement as I rebuilt my 30X40X12 shop after a fire in 2011. A link to that thread is in my signature below and I will continue to update that thread as things change on that side. I truly appreciate all the kind words and inspiration from everyone along the way. It’s nice to have a group folks who understand everything that goes into a garage/shop space. The rebuild was a lot of work, but after almost 2 years, I’m mostly happy with how it turned out and it gets used much more now than it had since we lived in it originally. We hosted all kinds of pool parties and gatherings during the summer and even when it’s not pool season, it’s been used to host a number of holiday get-togethers and birthday parties. Here’s the problem….and I’m pretty sure NUTTSGT was the first to predict this…We made it such a nice place to hang out that it’s hard to use it for the seriously dusty/dirty or longer term projects. It works great for pulling a car in for some minor maintenance and the steel topped work bench is a good size and has worked well for many smaller projects. Any kind of woodworking is bad news though as the entire place gets coated in sawdust and down the road there will be a longer term auto restoration project of some kind. I would also like to try my hand at metalworking….plenty of inspiration on this site for restoring older tools and projects to create with them.
Sorry for the long intro, but that is the background that has me thinking that I need another space for woodworking and other projects. On our property there are a few older barns and machine sheds that could potentially be cleaned out and setup. The closest is probably 300 yards away from the current shop (plusses and minuses to that!) and all would take significant effort to setup and all but one have no current electrical service.
SO….It has always been in the back of my head that I could expand the current shop on the west side. There are 16 feet between the west side of the shop and my property line (I can go right up to it) and I have roughly 60 feet or so back to the 10X16 shed I put in. Below are some Sketchup drawings of my initial thoughts:

Here's what we have now:
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Overhead of the proposed new space:
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3/4 Front View - Note the proposed slab is about 12" below the existing slab:
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3/4 Rear View - Proposed woodshop area is in the back:
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Proposed ToolRoom area (no roof shown, but would have roughly 4 - 4X8 sheets of plywood covering the top with area above intended for storage:
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I’m in the planning, costing and justification stage just now and here are some things I’d love to have input from everyone on:

Is the 16’ width (probably end up with around 15.5’ useable) sufficient for an auto restoration project? I know many have done incredible work with less space, but if I’m building new, I want take that into account.

Thoughts on the dedicated toolroom separating the woodshop area from the metal/automotive area with storage above (roughly 4- 4X8 sheets of plywood in size). I’ve seen a few on GJ and like the idea of having a “clean” space for a workbench and to lockup some of the tools. Who has done this….any downside?

I’m looking at starting the new slab about 12” lower than the existing slab. I’d like to keep 12+ feet of ceiling height in the front side should I ever be fortunate enough to acquire a lift. The outer wall height of the existing building is 12’ and I figure I’d lose 6-8” with the ceiling joists, plus the 1/12 pitch of the roof. I think this could leave me just over 12’ of height, tapering down to just under 12’ on the new far west wall. I haven’t run this “dropped” foundation idea by a concrete man yet….Is this possible or am I asking for trouble? The new structure won’t tie to the existing for support. Only the outer sheathing and roof metal would overlap, but the new structure would stand on its own….if that makes a difference?

Not sure if there is a cost difference, but I would consider making the wood shop area a pier/beam, stick built structure. I would like wood floor and wood walls in that area anyway and if there is a cost savings because I could completely do that kind of work myself that would just be a bonus! There may be a combination of metal outer structure and wooden floor (eliminate the slab) and interior walls that would make sense too.

Lots of other things to consider (electrical, whether or not I could tie in the AC/Heat unit to the addition, insulation, lighting, floor, etc, etc, etc….) but for now, I’m trying to decide if the basic concept is a good one, or if I should explore other options. What do you guys think?

I'm open to all ideas and suggestions....and feel free to post pics here if you've got something to share.

Chris

 

[SpeedinLemon]

Here's a couple more Sketchup views. I apologize to all you CAD jockey's out there for the rudimentary drawings, but I think you'll get the general idea!

Another view of the toolroom also showing the current window that would be turned into a walk through door:

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Another view from the back showing a little more of the wood shop area:

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Another overhead looking down from the east side:

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[NUTTSGT]

I like the basic layout of the proposed new digs.

Keeping the woodworking area separated is a great idea and it does work great in my opinion. Altough I would build it at the same time/concrete floor the sanme as the rest of the structure addition. I believe it would just be cheaper and easier. Finishing it differently or separately isn't a bad idea though. maybe soem type of rubber floor to minimize foot stress on concrete though.

The two sides of my garage are different heights, it has created no significate issues for me that couldn't be overcome. I'd just suggest a concrete apron out front that has a taper. This would allow something to be easily rolled out one big door into the other big door.

Personally, unless you are assembling engines or the like, I wouldn't think a clean room is necessary. I use an "L" shpaed bench. Dirty work gets done on one side and the other, I try to use for sit down work, laying of tools or to take a break eat/snack/read.

I wouldn't want to enclose the tool room either. I believe you are losing floor space for the wall and you'll have to keep part of that floor/wall area clear to allow for a swinging door. If you are woodworking and need a tool, you also have to walk clear around that wall to get something. What I'd consider is to just make a loft area in that end of the building. You can gain some "dirty" storage area above and not lose any work area below.


As always, just friendly advice and my .02¢

 

[Bob Heine]

SIL,
I think you will find the 16' width of the addition will be painfully small for doing auto restoration work. Very soon after the project starts, you have the hood, fenders doors and trunk lid or bed off the vehicle. You end up spending more time moving pieces around to make work space than actually working on the vehicle (don't ask me how I know).

If you extend the building on the north side and extend the existing structure you could keep the same slab elevation without losing height for the lift. You could also have a carport on the west side with the roof extension and not worry about the height.

You would lose the north side window in the entertainment area but perhaps a skylight or east facing window would compensate for that loss or maybe just replace the window with a door into the new space. The door would give access to the entertainment room from the shop so you don't have to go outside and then back in for a biological break.

Just a thought.

 

[Bob Heine]

Lots of other things to consider (electrical, whether or not I could tie in the AC/Heat unit to the addition, insulation, lighting, floor, etc, etc, etc….) but for now, I’m trying to decide if the basic concept is a good one, or if I should explore other options. What do you guys think?

I'm open to all ideas and suggestions....and feel free to post pics here if you've got something to share.

Chris

I would definitely put a dedicated A/C unit in the workshop area. The smell of body filler or paint fumes won't go over well with whoever is using the entertainment area. The filters will also clog much faster if the shop is tied into the main system.

My garage is about 700 square feet with an 8.5 foot ceiling so I'm cooling about 6000 cubic feet. I think the recommended size for that space is around 14,000 btu. I didn't want to have to install a 220v breaker so I ended up with an 11,000 btu window unit mounted high on the wall.

It's plugged into a switched outlet with the switch at the kitchen entrance (opposite end of the garage). It takes about an hour to cool the whole space 10 degrees and in less than 2 hours the garage is at 77 to 78 degrees and the humidity is low enough so bare steel doesn't rust.

It rarely goes over 95 in South Florida so mid-70s in the garage in the summer is just right. I bought the unit in the fall of 2000 for around $400 and it's still working fine (I know I shouldn't say that -- it'll be dead in a month). I'm running the unit at pretty low settings so maybe that's helping to extend its life.

 

[SpeedinLemon]

I like the basic layout of the proposed new digs.


As always, just friendly advice and my .02¢

Thanks Eric...If I gather up enough .02c, I'll eventually have something!

The wood working area will definitely be separate, but I'm very undecided about the tool room. I thought I had seen several on GJ, but I haven't been able to locate anything in recent searches. I may just keep the loft/storage area above, but eliminate the wall facing the front. We actually had the driveway paved, so I've got concrete up to where the new addition would begin. I'll try to get a better updated picture of the front and side where I'm thinking of adding on. I don't think I'll be doing any engine building, but I can see welding, grinding and maybe some machining/lathe work.

I'll put your .02c in the jar! Thanks!

 

[SpeedinLemon]

SIL,
I think you will find the 16' width of the addition will be painfully small for doing auto restoration work.

If you extend the building on the north side and extend the existing structure you could keep the same slab elevation without losing height for the lift.

The door would give access to the entertainment room from the shop so you don't have to go outside and then back in for a biological break.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the thoughts Bob. I've been looking at lots of long, narrow garages on here and I agree, it could be a challenge if I had something all torn apart. I'm thinking the depth might help with that though. I could potentially go deeper and once i get past the north end of the building, I would have room towards the east. I've got a storage shed back there, but it could be moved easily enough. I'll get some better pictures of the space we're working with.

Not sure if you noticed, but just to the right of the "toolroom" area, there is an existing window that I'd turn into a door and it is right next to the bathroom, so going outside and back in wouldn't be necessary.

On the AC...Would running some vents into the shop and not running a return from the shop do any good? The AC unit itself is just on the opposite side of the wall from the storage area above the toolroom, so running some ductwork would be really easy. I understand what you're saying about pulling air back into the "clean" side....I'll have to do some thinking on that.

Thanks for the input. I'll get some fresh pictures up and maybe rework the Sketchup drawings a bit.

Chris

 

[99MPower]

this is an old thread, and dont see any updates on either thread.. but as someone who does a TON of automotive projects, I dont think 16' is enough. With as much as you have in your shop/pool/etc, I would definitely plan on a nice 4 post lift in there. You need to be able to get around the sides of the lift. So figure out the width of a quality 2 post lift (Bendpak, etc) and then add 2-3' on each side so when a car is parked there, you have the ability to get around it/etc.