30X40X12 - After Fire Rebuild

[SpeedinLemon]

We've gotten some good rain which we definitely needed the last two days...unfortunately too much of it it now in my shop! The new window is leaking like a sieve. Glad it happened now, rather than after I've got it covered up. I'll have to investigate:

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[SpeedinLemon]

I almost fell over when I priced the 6/3 wire my electrician told me to pull for my welder outlet and subpanels for AC/Water Heater and Septic/Future Pool equipment. Over $4.00 a foot! I was talking it over with my brother in law and he pointed out that he had several hundred feet of 4/3 cable he had gotten from an oilwell they had worked on. The cable had gone downhole, got caught on something and damaged. I was able to find 3 undamaged sections the lengths I needed......and the best part it was free....although I'll probably need to make it up to him somehow in the future.

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[cfed]

What size is the interior room? Sorry if you have already posted but I don't remember seeing it.

Looking good!

 

[SpeedinLemon]

What size is the interior room? Sorry if you have already posted but I don't remember seeing it.

Looking good!

Thanks! The total enclosed space there is about 14X19. It was our master bedroom, closet and bathroom when we first built it. I will have a desk, some storage and probably some work out equipment in there and will refinish the bathroom as well.

 

[djjsr]

Just curious. Now that you've experienced a fire, are you doing anything to make the place more fire resistant? What are you using on the walls, wood, sheetrock, metal?

 

[SpeedinLemon]

Thanks djjsr. I'm definitely keeping the fire in mind as I choose how to rebuild. I have decided to use metal panels (same panels as the outside of the building) for the ceiling in the front and am leaning towards 3/4" plywood for the walls. Home Depot has what they call "cabinet grade" 3/4 ply for about $24 a sheet. It's very smooth and I shouldn't have to worry about finding a stud when I hang something on the walls. I would like to do some type of wood ceiling in the back half, but haven't decided exactly what yet.

Other than that....I'll be very careful not to leave any rags piled up anywhere!

 

[flybefree]

Speedin,

Great thread, I like your sketchup model idea...I am working on learning how to use that for my next project. You insulated door quote seems reasonable based on what we have bought recently...now I am going to go home and get the rags out of my trash can!

Shaun

 

[SpeedinLemon]

Hey Shaun -- Thanks for posting. Your build is one that caught my I when I first found GJ and I've looked at so many, I had lost track of it. Reread most of it last night and started from the beginning! I'm just glad I'm only buying a 10X10 and not a 38' hangar door like you've got....although I do wish I needed a hangar door! You'll probably see your outer building color scheme duplicated on my interior walls and I am picking up steel for the ceiling this afternoon.

I've enjoyed Sketchup and with your obvious skills (you can run an iPad right??) I think you'd pick it up pretty quick.

I encourage anyone looking for great thread to visit FlyBeFree above. Very well written.

Chris

 

[shopnut]

I like the awning in front now.

+1

I suppose it depends on ones weather and projects, but for me, having an outdoor covered work area is a great feature to have. I do many of the "dirty" jobs out on that patio, like woodworking, so I can just fire up the leaf blower when it's cleanup time.

 

[SpeedinLemon]

Thanks Shopnut...Dirty/Dusty jobs was the driving force on the awning. I think I'm going like it.

I found out Mueller closes at 5:00 and the warehouse is closed on weekends, so I wasn't able to pick up my ceiling metal....hopefully I can swing some time this week.

I did do a little work on the old drill press. The quill assembly (learned that term on Red Leaders thread!) was very stiff, but with a little WD, it loosened up enough that I felt ok to plug it in and use it a bit. The switch is melted beyond use:

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I plugged the cord in directly and chucked up a sanding disk to help my 8 year old with a pinewood derby car:

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I was glad to see it run and look forward to getting the shop in shape to work on projects besides the shop itself.

 

[flybefree]

Great design on the pinewood derby car...my oldest is only 3 and I have already started thinking about how I...er..HE is going to win it all baby! I spent several hours reading online articles on how to make the fastest car possible. I think the awning is a great idea.

Shaun

 

[SpeedinLemon]

Great design on the pinewood derby car...my oldest is only 3 and I have already started thinking about how I...er..HE is going to win it all baby! I spent several hours reading online articles on how to make the fastest car possible. I think the awning is a great idea.

Shaun

Thanks Shaun -- You can really go nuts with those PW derby cars! I....I mean he....I mean we.... had a good time building it. This one turned out to have more style than speed though....He's already talking about next year though....pure SPEED!!

 

[BUGTHUG]

Sorry about your fire, I seen a picture of a old metal milk can out by the drive way. You should make that your new oily rag can. I know in the shopes that use a lot of oily or flamable cleaners have the yellow metal trash cans that have a foot operated lid that seals the can, but the milk can will work just as good and have chararcter. Good luck

 

[SpeedinLemon]

Sorry about your fire, I seen a picture of a old metal milk can out by the drive way. You should make that your new oily rag can. I know in the shopes that use a lot of oily or flamable cleaners have the yellow metal trash cans that have a foot operated lid that seals the can, but the milk can will work just as good and have chararcter. Good luck

Thanks for the comments. I hadn't thought of using the old milk containers for rags, but I've got several around. I'll look into that.

 

[SpeedinLemon]

Well, progress has been slow. I'm trying to get the metal ceiling up in the front of the shop so the guys can install the new garage door. I'm still finalizing some of the electrical....I keep thinking of things I need to add..."just in case". I want to put an outlet in the ceiling for an air filtration unit as well as will need power for the garage door opener. Anyway...here's a couple of pics of the limited progress. Should get a few hours out there tomorrow.....

I decided on the 3/4" plywood to do all the walls:
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Covering the framing around the center beam with some 3/8 exterior ply:
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I bought 25 sheets of the 3/4 to get me started and I picked up the metal for the ceiling:
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Now I just need some time out there!

 

[SpeedinLemon]

After the fire, I had in my mind to replace as many of my power tools as possible with brand spankin' new, as top of the line as I could afford ones. But after some serious shopping, disappointment with the prices needed for even mediocre quality new tools and much inspiration from this site, I've pulled several tools from the "scrap" heap and will be rebuilding and refurbishing rather than replacing. The new tools are rarely Made in USA and seem no where near the quality of my old "junk". I've posted pics of my Craftsman 150 Drill Press previously and never really considered getting rid of it. Here's a disk / belt sander that I think is from the mid to late 60's:

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If anyone has a similar tool, I'd love to see pics of how you have it mounted and setup. I was fortunate enough to purchase quite a few tools from a gentleman I knew who was moving into a retirement home several years ago. I'll post up pics of various ones along with hopefully some shop progress!

 

[flybefree]

I'm with you on looking for classic tools to put back to work...especially if you can buy them from a hobby guy who took decent care of his stuff. Now I will say that the exception would be decent quality cordless tools...I'm sort of addicted to 12volt Milwaukee drill driver...I will give the chineese that!

Shaun

 

[bluebolt]

After the fire, I had in my mind to replace as many of my power tools as possible with brand spankin' new, as top of the line as I could afford ones. But after some serious shopping, disappointment with the prices needed for even mediocre quality new tools and much inspiration from this site, I've pulled several tools from the "scrap" heap and will be rebuilding and refurbishing rather than replacing. The new tools are rarely Made in USA and seem no where near the quality of my old "junk". I've posted pics of my Craftsman 150 Drill Press previously and never really considered getting rid of it. Here's a disk / belt sander that I think is from the mid to late 60's:

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If anyone has a similar tool, I'd love to see pics of how you have it mounted and setup. I was fortunate enough to purchase quite a few tools from a gentleman I knew who was moving into a retirement home several years ago. I'll post up pics of various ones along with hopefully some shop progress!

Go to www.vintagemachinery.org and go to their picture section, they have several of that type. Most of the 6" x 48" sanders from 1950's to early 1970s are same basic machine. I have one but no stand yet.

 

[SpeedinLemon]

Well, the weekend got off to a rough start. Mom and Dad were in town to celebrate birthdays for my two kids with December birthdays...we push them back a month to separate them from all the Christmas celebration. Anyway, when getting back on I-35 after dinner a driver apparently ran off the road in the left lane, over corrected and hit us in the driver side rear door. He got underneath us and flipped us up on the passenger side and we slid down the highway 75-100 yards. Thanks to God, seat belts and side curtain air bags, we all walked away (or rather crawled out the sunroof!) and no one has anything more than a few sore muscles. Some dark cell-phone pics:

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But, despite the wild ride, and probably looking like a circus clown car with 8 of us crawling out the sunroof, everyone is fine and weekend celebrations went on as planned. I even got several hours in the shop this afternoon....progress pics next....

 

[Syndicate]

Holy Sheet!! Glad you all are okay!! Seriously!!!

Sorry bout the fire too. I hope your luck changes for the better starting NOW!

 

[SpeedinLemon]

Despite the crazy start to the weekend, Sunday provided several hours in the shop. Some alone, some with my 2 year old and I even got my two oldest out to join in the fun when it came time to attach the first ceiling panel. They were troopers, but I think I'll find some taller and stronger help for next few. I got the upper west wall and the rest of the front of the beam skinned, all the J-channel trim up for the ceiling and the one tin panel.

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So far I'm liking the tin on the ceiling. I will measure several times as i go across and try to make sure it is staying square. With the J-channel, I have a little "fudge factor", but trying to keep it straight.

 

[bluebolt]

Wow! Glad you guys are OK! Someone up above was watching over you!

 

[flybefree]

Looks great...rereads post about narrowing escaping "Death on the Highway"...DUDE! I hearby declare starting NOW all this excitement stops for a while. Give our man lemon here a break. Good thing you were not driving my Scion xB...

Shaun

 

[SpeedinLemon]

Looks great...rereads post about narrowing escaping "Death on the Highway"...DUDE! I hearby declare starting NOW all this excitement stops for a while. Give our man lemon here a break. Good thing you were not driving my Scion xB...

Shaun

Wow! Glad you guys are OK! Someone up above was watching over you!

Holy Sheet!! Glad you all are okay!! Seriously!!!

Sorry bout the fire too. I hope your luck changes for the better starting NOW!

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I agree with Shaun....Excitement level needs to come down several notches! It's been a week now and everyone is good. Wife's back is still sore....hoping that clears up soon. Given what happened though, I feel very blessed!

 

[shopnut]

Sorry, I guess I missed it earlier - glad to see you and the family are doing okay after that wild ride. I hope your wife's back pain doesn't amount to anything.

It just goes to show you, sometimes you are not in total control of your own destiny.

The ceiling is looking good, BTW.

 

[wfochris]

Thanks for the pictures! Great progress.

 

[SpeedinLemon]

Thanks for the pictures! Great progress.

Sorry, I guess I missed it earlier - glad to see you and the family are doing okay after that wild ride. I hope your wife's back pain doesn't amount to anything.

It just goes to show you, sometimes you are not in total control of your own destiny.

The ceiling is looking good, BTW.

Thanks guys. Shopnut - You're absolutely right...we can only do so much and the rest is in God's hands. Glad to hear you're making progress as well. Kind of ironic...a relatively minor fall from a ladder = 12+ weeks of downtime and a near rollover accident with 9 people involved and everyone walks away! Maybe airbags for ladders is something you should look into during your down time.

I am liking how the ceiling is turning out....Pretty tough to install. It's not that heavy, but on about that 6th piece up over my head, I was sure wishing for some of your lighter weight vinyl!

 

[SpeedinLemon]

A few progress pics from this week:

View media item 16337I've got the wire pulled through for 4 set's of 8' flourescents. I made a loop in the middle that I can get to later if I decide I need more light. What do you guys think...will the four be enough. I'll also have some lighting at the workbench area.

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View media item 16365Got some much needed help from a friend to get some of the ceiling tin up. Family is willing to help, but taller and stronger was needed for this one. I'm embarrassed to say that I had to quit before we could finish....I need some time in the weight room!

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View media item 16362A little more wall board up also....

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[shopnut]

Kind of ironic...a relatively minor fall from a ladder = 12+ weeks of downtime and a near rollover accident with 9 people involved and everyone walks away! Maybe airbags for ladders is something you should look into during your down time.

That is ironic. Or maybe just rotten luck for me!

It's coincidental that you mention the airbags for ladders. The Mrs. and I were just discussing today how I can (or as she says WILL) work safer at the heights out there and I remembered this guy who invented an inflatable motorcycle jacket to protect himself in an accident. There was a tether cord that would trigger a CO2 discharge to bladders in the jacket if he became separated from his bike. Initially when we saw it, we both thought it was a good idea, but figured it would only protect us in a small number of crash scenarios, and not ones where the initial severe impact occurs while on the bike. But I was thinking that it possibly has more merit as fall protection from a ladder or scaffold. I guess I need to work on some inflatable boot, huh?

Of course, protecting against the fall in the first place is probably the best measure!

Keep the momentum going on that ceiling!

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

SpeedinLemon, 'AFR' is coming along nicely and its great that your family wants to help. Any idea why the new window is a sieve? After Shopnut reminded us all of the need to be extra vigilant when working alone on a ladder (Sorry Shopnut), have you taken any precautions as you work on the ceiling? Having a harness on and fastened to the steel girders might be advisable; I'm sure Shopnut would concur! I've got the H.F. rolling scaffold to mud/paint my 12' ceilings when it warms up. I've also ordered the N.T. safety railing kit to mount on the scaffold for an extra margin of safety. Work safely, the kids don't want to see their Daddy get a big boo-boo while working in his shop.

 

[SpeedinLemon]

SpeedinLemon, 'AFR' is coming along nicely and its great that your family wants to help. Any idea why the new window is a sieve? After Shopnut reminded us all of the need to be extra vigilant when working alone on a ladder (Sorry Shopnut), have you taken any precautions as you work on the ceiling? Having a harness on and fastened to the steel girders might be advisable; I'm sure Shopnut would concur! I've got the H.F. rolling scaffold to mud/paint my 12' ceilings when it warms up. I've also ordered the N.T. safety railing kit to mount on the scaffold for an extra margin of safety. Work safely, the kids don't want to see their Daddy get a big boo-boo while working in his shop.

Thanks Ompha! I have checked out the window and the way the trim is made there is almost no way that it COULDN'T leak! The U-Channel used to trim the window channels water right down to a seam at the corner where the trim pieces come together. I think I will be able to silicone it up fairly easily, but am concerned that when that eventually fails I will have a big mess. It seems that there should be a piece of trim that doesn't allow water to get down into that channel in the first place, or at least significantly limit what gets in there. I'll try to get a picture to better explain and will try to find pictures of how others have done. If anyone has a similar metal building, I'd like to see some close-ups of the top of the window trim.

As far as safety goes, I try to follow common sense precautions, but I'm probably fairly lax in that category. I purchased the scaffold you see in many of my pictures from Tractor Supply on Black Friday. I keep the platform several rows down from the top. I'm a little over 6'1", so I can reach all but the very peak of the ceiling in that position. The full toolbox on the scaffold actually seems to make it more stable and I have used it as a step a few times. I'm not sure that a harness would be practical given the short amount of time I'm ever in one position and my feet are less than 5 ' from the ground. Mainly I just try to be aware of the situation and quit when I'm feeling tired or worn out. I think many accidents occur when we try to push ourselves farther than we should. Shopnut seems like a careful and calculating guy and I'm sure takes safety seriously, but he just had some bad luck. Wow!...that was more than I planned on writing on that, but you are right that keeping ourselves safe should be a top priority.

And BTW, I see your posts quite often and you've always got good information to add....Thanks for stopping by and keep the posts coming!

 

[tinbender 66]

The place is coming back better than ever!!

I seem to have come down with the old tool disease too. All Red Leader's fault.

Try and get a pic of that window flashing. I did architectural sheet metal (fab and install) for a lot of years and maybe I can give you a couple of ideas that won't require you to tear the whole building down. I only worked on great big tall buildings but the principles are the same.

 

[64dragnwagon]

A few more pics to get us closer to where we're at so far....

View media item 13914Patio door to replace the window on the east side of the building. We had originally planned on mounting this flush with the outer walls of the building, but as my metal guys was working on it, he called and advised we mount flush with the inner walls. The door wouldn't have opened much past 90 degrees with so much distance from the outer wall to the inner...the door wouldn't be able to swing in.

View media item 13915I went ahead and got a front door to match the side patio door. Both have mini blinds inside the glass....keep the dust off them maybe.

View media item 13918Frame is in for the window on the north wall.

I see your point about the doors not opening past 90 degrees to the inside. Would it be possible to explain and or post some pics of how you trimmed out the doors on the outside? I am having a pole building built next week and I am interested in how it would look on the outside. The poles are 6x6 and if I mount the door flush to the outside they will not swing past 90 degrees and as it will be a place of business I am concerned about customers opening the door hard and damaging the hinges, door or jamb. Thanks

 

[Foxxtrot]

I just read your entire thread, and being that I do fire restoration for a living, it seems you got away fairly lucky. At least now you can get it back to more usable space, since you said it had become mainly just a storage area.
Any areas that still have smoke/soot on the framing should be sealed so you don't have a smoke odor in the future. Kilz is an acceptable product.
As far as the window goes, does it have any sort of rain diverter above the window to keep rain out of the channel? Usually there is a "lip" above the window that kicks the water off to the sides and away.
Keep up the good work!

 

[SpeedinLemon]

The place is coming back better than ever!!

I seem to have come down with the old tool disease too. All Red Leader's fault.

Try and get a pic of that window flashing. I did architectural sheet metal (fab and install) for a lot of years and maybe I can give you a couple of ideas that won't require you to tear the whole building down. I only worked on great big tall buildings but the principles are the same.

Thanks Paul -- Take a look at these and see if despite my poor photography you can get a better idea what I'm talking about....

View media item 16468Top left corner of the window....

View media item 16470Same corner from the other side.....

View media item 16469Top view of same corner.....

View media item 16471The opposite corner.

See what you think....it seems to me there should have been an "L" shaped piece of tin used as sort of a flashing above this "U" channel around the window. Do think I should just silicone it up good or call the metal guy back and have him redo?

Thanks for looking....Chris

 

[SpeedinLemon]

I just read your entire thread, and being that I do fire restoration for a living, it seems you got away fairly lucky. At least now you can get it back to more usable space, since you said it had become mainly just a storage area.
Any areas that still have smoke/soot on the framing should be sealed so you don't have a smoke odor in the future. Kilz is an acceptable product.
As far as the window goes, does it have any sort of rain diverter above the window to keep rain out of the channel? Usually there is a "lip" above the window that kicks the water off to the sides and away.
Keep up the good work!

Thanks for the advice Foxxtrot. I feel very lucky and blessed in many ways when I think of all that could have gone wrong. And it is giving me an opportunity to remake it into a much more useable space....both for a shop for me and a hangout area for the family. Most all of the heavily sooted wood has been removed. What's left doesn't seem to have an odor even when the building has been sealed up for a few days, but I'll take your advice and hit the few spots I have with Kilz just to be sure. I'd to get all the wall board up and THEN decide it needs to be done!

See my post above for details on the window trim.....I think you're thinking along the same lines I am about the "lip". Thanks for posting!

 

[SpeedinLemon]

I see your point about the doors not opening past 90 degrees to the inside. Would it be possible to explain and or post some pics of how you trimmed out the doors on the outside? I am having a pole building built next week and I am interested in how it would look on the outside. The poles are 6x6 and if I mount the door flush to the outside they will not swing past 90 degrees and as it will be a place of business I am concerned about customers opening the door hard and damaging the hinges, door or jamb. Thanks

Hey 64dragnwagon...HEre's the best shot I have handy of the outside of the door. I can get some better/close pics tomorrow if it would help you. You're worried about customers; I was worried about kids....works out about the same!

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Thanks for posting! Chris

 

[tinbender 66]

Thanks Paul -- Take a look at these and see if despite my poor photography you can get a better idea what I'm talking about....

View media item 16468Top left corner of the window....



See what you think....it seems to me there should have been an "L" shaped piece of tin used as sort of a flashing above this "U" channel around the window. Do think I should just silicone it up good or call the metal guy back and have him redo?

Thanks for looking....Chris

You're right, it should have an "L" shaped head flashing at the top. It should extend beyond the C (we call it J metal but no matter) a little. It should be bent a little less than 90° so the water heads to the front of it. Also, we would bend up tabs (end dams) on the ends of it so that the water has to run off the front and not dump into the J metal on the sides. That J metal needs to be lapped correctly at the bottom too i.e. so it will shed water and not buck water. I can't see the bottom so I don't know what he did there. I hope I haven't confused you too much,

These are the only pics I have that kinda show it. The first one you can see the head flashing pretty good. It's an overflow drain not a window but the same principal. The other pic is kinda far away but we did the same thing around those two HVAC units that stick through the wall. I took these in the equipment wells on the roof of a 28 story building in Bellevue, WA.

As for whether to call him back or not I would say if it leaks he should fix it. If we did it we would have to fix it. More sealant is not a good solution.

I can draw an exploded view if you want.

 

[Beaumont67]

SpeedinLemon - Your shop is 30X40X12 and was originally built in 1999...looks very well build.
- good thread here

Any idea who the manufacture is, welded or bolted construction ?
- its what I am planning, to ajoin my 1125 sq.ft. shop (with low ceilings)

 

[SpeedinLemon]

You're right, it should have an "L" shaped head flashing at the top. It should extend beyond the C (we call it J metal but no matter) a little. It should be bent a little less than 90° so the water heads to the front of it. Also, we would bend up tabs (end dams) on the ends of it so that the water has to run off the front and not dump into the J metal on the sides. That J metal needs to be lapped correctly at the bottom too i.e. so it will shed water and not buck water. I can't see the bottom so I don't know what he did there. I hope I haven't confused you too much,

These are the only pics I have that kinda show it. The first one you can see the head flashing pretty good. It's an overflow drain not a window but the same principal. The other pic is kinda far away but we did the same thing around those two HVAC units that stick through the wall. I took these in the equipment wells on the roof of a 28 story building in Bellevue, WA.

As for whether to call him back or not I would say if it leaks he should fix it. If we did it we would have to fix it. More sealant is not a good solution.

I can draw an exploded view if you want.

Thanks TB -- That's exactly the confirmation I needed. No drawing needed, but I appreciate the offer. I'll give the man a call tomorrow. He seemed like a real decent guy and I was happy with the way everything else turned out. I think he'll take care of me. If not, it doesn't seem like it would be that difficult to do. If I do have to tackle it, I'll probably run my plan by you though if you don't mind!

Thanks again for the info and pictures.

Chris