30x50 suggestions

[woodersen]

a couple months away from breaking ground on the shop.

so now im in full research mode, i want to do this project right the first time, and want it to last a long time.

im working with about $30,000 cash.

i want this to be a functioning garage with a pool table and small bed room incase friends get too drunk to drive

here is what i want in the shop. this is a rough draft. my first drawing/idea.

1.park 3 driveable cars
2.1 work area
3.pool table area/darts/tv/entertainment
4.small restroom/bed/shower maybe
5. 30x50 building, 50x50 slab resulting in 20x50 covered porch/drive up area.

(4) 20x10 bays for car/lift
(1) 20x10 bay for work area/bench
(1) 20x10 bay for pool table
(1) 10x10 bed room (might need larger?)
(1) empty 10x10
(1) 10x10 to store lawn mower/quad etc.

see drawiing and let me know what you think,also, is this feasible with 30k. thanks

 

[tinbender 66]

I guess feasibility depends on how much you are doing yourself. Mine's a little smaller (24X48) and I haven't hit 20K yet (about 17K) but the only thing I paid to have done was the site prep.

 

[ODIS]

Welcome to GJ.

The following are the recommended space requirements for the pool table and is dependent on the actual size of the table you will be using:

For a 7 ft (2.1 m) by 3.5 ft (1.1 m) bar/tavern-style table for pool, the space needed to enclose the table is approximately 17 ft (5.2 m) by 15.5 ft (4.7 m) (ergo, a room probably around 20 ft (6.1 m) by 18.5 ft (5.6 m) to account for furniture).
For an 8 ft (2.4 m) by 4 ft (1.2 m) home-market pool table, the space needed is approx. 20 ft (6.1 m) x 16 ft (4.9 m).
For a 9 ft (2.7 m) by 4.5 ft (1.4 m) regulation pool table, approx. 21 feet (6.4 m) by 16.5 ft (5.0 m).
For a 10 ft (3.0 m) by 5 ft (1.5 m) carom table, approx. 22 ft (6.7 m) by 17 ft (5.2 m); for an American snooker table of this size, 24 ft (7.3 m) by 19 ft (5.8 m) in space (to account for longer cues)
For a full-size 12 ft (3.7 m) by 6 ft (1.8 m) regulation snooker table, the longer cues may call for up to 26 ft (7.9 m) by 20 ft (6.1 m).

Might also consider a separate building or at least a well sealed off storage space for the mower. You may not want to smell the grass molding in the mower deck, especially if you are entertaining in your shop/garage.

What is the heat source? Did not see a mechanical room in the drawing, or is that a part of the "etc." in the 10x10 storage room?

If you are doing all the work, might get by with the $30K. Plan on cost over-runs and more time to build than you might think it will take.

Ody.

 

[Nighttrain]

I think your going to try to stuff a 10# sausage into a 5# bag. Things to look at are tool boxes, cabinets work benches and tools. Those will take up at least 3' - 4' on each wall. What type of cars do you plan on parking inside there? 20' deep parking area fills up even with small cars.

I think having a game area is great, but for the little time that it will be used wil be a waste of that area. How about when buddies come over you back out the cars and use the whole open area for entertaining. Fold up table or one that is suspended?

My shop is 40x60 and I added a office and bedroom/bath. That took up 1/3 of the space. Tinbender shop is close in size to what you want and he has a small office in the corner and lots of work bench areas/tools.

Welcome to GJ, 30x50 will be a nice size shop!

 

[woodersen]

Welcome to GJ.

The following are the recommended space requirements for the pool table and is dependent on the actual size of the table you will be using:

For a 7 ft (2.1 m) by 3.5 ft (1.1 m) bar/tavern-style table for pool, the space needed to enclose the table is approximately 17 ft (5.2 m) by 15.5 ft (4.7 m) (ergo, a room probably around 20 ft (6.1 m) by 18.5 ft (5.6 m) to account for furniture).
For an 8 ft (2.4 m) by 4 ft (1.2 m) home-market pool table, the space needed is approx. 20 ft (6.1 m) x 16 ft (4.9 m).
For a 9 ft (2.7 m) by 4.5 ft (1.4 m) regulation pool table, approx. 21 feet (6.4 m) by 16.5 ft (5.0 m).
For a 10 ft (3.0 m) by 5 ft (1.5 m) carom table, approx. 22 ft (6.7 m) by 17 ft (5.2 m); for an American snooker table of this size, 24 ft (7.3 m) by 19 ft (5.8 m) in space (to account for longer cues)
For a full-size 12 ft (3.7 m) by 6 ft (1.8 m) regulation snooker table, the longer cues may call for up to 26 ft (7.9 m) by 20 ft (6.1 m).

Might also consider a separate building or at least a well sealed off storage space for the mower. You may not want to smell the grass molding in the mower deck, especially if you are entertaining in your shop/garage.

What is the heat source? Did not see a mechanical room in the drawing, or is that a part of the "etc." in the 10x10 storage room?

If you are doing all the work, might get by with the $30K. Plan on cost over-runs and more time to build than you might think it will take.

Ody.

Might be able to stuff a small size table. Lawn mower smell doesnt bother me. Its not worse than the truck loads of ************ used to fertilize the rice field behind my house. No heat im in texas. I plan to pay for slab. Order a building. Erect it myself w neighbors help and my brother is an electrician and friend is a plumber....

 

[woodersen]

I think your going to try to stuff a 10# sausage into a 5# bag. Things to look at are tool boxes, cabinets work benches and tools. Those will take up at least 3' - 4' on each wall. What type of cars do you plan on parking inside there? 20' deep parking area fills up even with small cars.

I think having a game area is great, but for the little time that it will be used wil be a waste of that area. How about when buddies come over you back out the cars and use the whole open area for entertaining. Fold up table or one that is suspended?

My shop is 40x60 and I added a office and bedroom/bath. That took up 1/3 of the space. Tinbender shop is close in size to what you want and he has a small office in the corner and lots of work bench areas/tools.

Welcome to GJ, 30x50 will be a nice size shop!

Thanks for the response. Shop will be used for general auto mech. Shade tree, typical tools, no big equipment other than a compressor. Actually i think the game area will be used more than anything lol. We drink alot. Do you have pics of your 40x60 or a link? Thanks

 

[Nighttrain]

Thanks for the response. Shop will be used for general auto mech. Shade tree, typical tools, no big equipment other than a compressor. Actually i think the game area will be used more than anything lol. We drink alot. Do you have pics of your 40x60 or a link? Thanks

Sure, its here on the bottom of my thread, Where in Texas?

 

[kb2tha]

I think I would be looking at a roofline that would allow for some 2nd floor space. Put the restroom, bedroom space and room for the pool table all upstairs. Same footprint for foundation/slab costs and perhaps only marginally more for attic trusses. Personally, I believe you will regret your plan as proposed with all you are trying to squeeze into the space.

I built a 1400 sf (see initial pics in my album) for less than you are talking of spending. Built all myself minus the site leveling and concrete work.

ask plenty of questions. There is a load of great information on this site.

I also just noticed you show no man door on the plan. Is this by design?

 

[woodersen]

Sure, its here on the bottom of my thread, Where in Texas?

Brazoria area

 

[woodersen]

I think I would be looking at a roofline that would allow for some 2nd floor space. Put the restroom, bedroom space and room for the pool table all upstairs. Same footprint for foundation/slab costs and perhaps only marginally more for attic trusses. Personally, I believe you will regret your plan as proposed with all you are trying to squeeze into the space.

I built a 1400 sf (see initial pics in my album) for less than you are talking of spending. Built all myself minus the site leveling and concrete work.

ask plenty of questions. There is a load of great information on this site.

I also just noticed you show no man door on the plan. Is this by design?

Thanks for the ideas. The man door is on the bottom corner. Above the bbq pit. The dark line be the pool table represents a partition maybe 4 ft high to seperate areas and maybe have a bar/countertop. In the design, i am already planning for things i dont have, like
4 cars. I have 1 car and 1 chassis for the same car. So the shop wont be full on day 1. Might take years. But i understand what you are saying. Any suggestions on building vendors, any feedback on mueller?

 

[kb2tha]

Not familiar with Mueller in this area. Morton is a large builder of pole construction metal sided buildings here, although pricey. I built mine as pole construction and am finishing the inside. Designed and then ordered the trusses. Got truss quotes from 4 different vendors since they all deal with the same supplier. It pays to shop around.

Also, if in your area, consider Amish built. Excellent quality and fast. Can't hurt to get a quote.

I would probably check Home Depot and Lowe's both. Take your plan to the contractor services desk and don't be afraid to haggle.

Make sure you pour pads for that lift in your plan and have a high enough ceiling.

As a suggestion, place your location so that is shows up in your profile.

Have fun with the build. I planned mine all winter before building.

 

[woodersen]

Not familiar with Mueller in this area. Morton is a large builder of pole construction metal sided buildings here, although pricey. I built mine as pole construction and am finishing the inside. Designed and then ordered the trusses. Got truss quotes from 4 different vendors since they all deal with the same supplier. It pays to shop around.

Also, if in your area, consider Amish built. Excellent quality and fast. Can't hurt to get a quote.

I would probably check Home Depot and Lowe's both. Take your plan to the contractor services desk and don't be afraid to haggle.

Make sure you pour pads for that lift in your plan and have a high enough ceiling.

As a suggestion, place your location so that is shows up in your profile.

Have fun with the build. I planned mine all winter before building.

Good info. The closest ive seen of the amish is on that tv show about them leaving the amish lol


My neighbor has a 24x45 shop. But he said he built the shop first then poured the concrete. What is the downside of doing that?

 

[kb2tha]

My neighbor has a 24x45 shop. But he said he built the shop first then poured the concrete. What is the downside of doing that?[/QUOTE]

My slab was poured after the building was framed and roofed. No board and batten was up yet. I don't see a downside to this approach. Keeps the direct sun off of the concrete during the pour and after. This would likely be more critical in Texas. Just make sure you keep the crete covered and soak it at least a couple of times a day at least for the first week. Full cure on concrete is 28 days.

 

[PurdueSD]

You can take a look at my build for some ideas... its 30x56. You are kidding yourself if you think 20' is enough depth for the car portion. Especially if you plan to do more than park mini coopers. 30 is the absolute minimum for a work bay. No offense, but move the silly stuff upstairs into a loft or get rid of it. The covered porch will be nice but if i had to choose between 20 depth or no covered porch...bye bye porch. How often are you really going to use a bedroom in your shop? At most a couple times a year? hand em a blow up mattress or point to the couch!

Another thing i would suggest is a yard barn for the mowers and such. I made a dedicated space in my shop for that **** and have regretted it ever since.


For reference i was into my shop for around 40k. My father and i did all the work, other than brick and flatwork. But i had some unecessary extras. You easily have someone build you a pole barn in your budget as another option.
Goodluck to ya!

 

[woodersen]

You can take a look at my build for some ideas... its 30x56. You are kidding yourself if you think 20' is enough depth for the car portion. Especially if you plan to do more than park mini coopers. 30 is the absolute minimum for a work bay. No offense, but move the silly stuff upstairs into a loft or get rid of it. The covered porch will be nice but if i had to choose between 20 depth or no covered porch...bye bye porch. How often are you really going to use a bedroom in your shop? At most a couple times a year? hand em a blow up mattress or point to the couch!

Another thing i would suggest is a yard barn for the mowers and such. I made a dedicated space in my shop for that **** and have regretted it ever since.


For reference i was into my shop for around 40k. My father and i did all the work, other than brick and flatwork. But i had some unecessary extras. You easily have someone build you a pole barn in your budget as another option.
Goodluck to ya!

Good info. I guess 20ft for car bay fills up. Its good to park a car. Hmm. Im going to do another draft tomorrow considering a 2nd story. The bed might not be used much or shower, but definately want a can and sink. Are they any sites to do a virtual build?

 

[woodersen]

I want to keep the 20ft porch to cook and eat. I spend alot of time bbq and drinking/music outdoors so and can wash cars in the shade. Etc.

 

[PurdueSD]

Build the shop with no interior walls and attic storage trusses. After you get a feel for how you will use the space you can add interior walls. Put the can and sink underneath the stairs. The porch is an awesome idea! I would say if you have to have all that stuff on the main floor, you need to look into a larger footprint. Do you have the means/room to build your shop and add on an appendage later for the party room?

My most recent barn i completely drew it in 3d in google sketchup. My shop from my avatar was hand drawn and i used a tool from fbi buildings (found in google search) website to play around with the floor plan.

 

[woodersen]

Build the shop with no interior walls and attic storage trusses. After you get a feel for how you will use the space you can add interior walls. Put the can and sink underneath the stairs. The porch is an awesome idea! I would say if you have to have all that stuff on the main floor, you need to look into a larger footprint. Do you have the means/room to build your shop and add on an appendage later for the party room?

My most recent barn i completely drew it in 3d in google sketchup. My shop from my avatar was hand drawn and i used a tool from fbi buildings (found in google search) website to play around with the floor plan.

Yea i have plenty of space. I just did a virtual drawing on buildingdepot.com. takes a while to get the hang of it. Price came to 16k. I have to research what costs and what doesnt. Like different between 2 8ftx8ft doors vs 1 16ftx8ft door etc. And how that affects price. I was hoping it would fall around the 12k range? Might be able to find a building comparable that someone didnt pay for? Have plenty of time to plan. Im not in a rush. I have a 2 car attached garage for now.

 

[bmcdowell40]

Your sketch is a good conceptual starting point, however, it isn't all going to fit. Others have suggested making the space bigger by going up and adding a second floor. If you make your building 32' deep and go with a 10/12 truss, you can expect a 16' wide room upstairs. I would guess this would cost you an additional $5K to $6K just for the attic trusses and the additional roofing. Obviously, you will have additional costs to sheet the floor upstair and build the stairs to get there. Not so obvious, you'll probably have to drywall or OSB the bottom of trusses (downstairs ceiling) and drywall or OSB the entire upstairs. The drywall or OSB will act as the lateral bracing for the trusses, without it, the entire upstairs will shake like crazy just walking on it. Building codes, depending how they are enforced and interpreted in your area, may make you put 5/8" OSB on the ceiling and have a fire rated wall and solid door seperating the garage and the stairs. This is if they deem the upstairs as "living space."

 

[68 Bird]

I did a 32 x 48 x 10 pole building, poles on 4' centers (stucco and and rock exterior) solid as hell. With concrete (includes 25' x 50' apron), insulation, drywall and two 75K btu cieling heaters, I'm right at $25K.

Before I started moving **** in I thought "man this thing is massive". Now I'm kind of thinking 40 x 64 would have been better.

Check out this thread on GJ
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171532&goto=newpost

 

[woodersen]

Thanks for the info. Im absorbing it all. And will look at all the build threads over the weekend

 

[Ohio Auto]

Mine is the same size as yours, it's in my signature.

No way is everything going to fit.

 

[93L#3008]

I think I would be looking at a roofline that would allow for some 2nd floor space. Put the restroom, bedroom space and room for the pool table all upstairs. Same footprint for foundation/slab costs and perhaps only marginally more for attic trusses. Personally, I believe you will regret your plan as proposed with all you are trying to squeeze into the space.

I built a 1400 sf (see initial pics in my album) for less than you are talking of spending. Built all myself minus the site leveling and concrete work.

ask plenty of questions. There is a load of great information on this site.

I also just noticed you show no man door on the plan. Is this by design?

I agree.... going up with 16' walls and full mezzanine would be most cost efficient. Look at the garage condo for ideas. overlooking the shop from a game area is a good idea.

 

[krooser]

That's a lot to cram into a small space...20' is hardly enough for a car and workspace.

My 30X50 is basically a one car shop with a separate area for my lifta

 

[HD FLHX]

I would seriously consider at least 9' wide overhead doors at a minimum, I was talked into going with 10' wide doors in my building and I'm really glad I did.

 

[woodersen]

I would seriously consider at least 9' wide overhead doors at a minimum, I was talked into going with 10' wide doors in my building and I'm really glad I did.

thanks for the info. after seeing your almost 30x50 . im convinced i need more room. not taking away from your shop, because its awesome. but im glad i started this topic because now i need to go back to the drawing board.

 

[woodersen]

Mine is the same size as yours, it's in my signature.

No way is everything going to fit.

very nice place. im convinced now lol

 

[woodersen]

I did a 32 x 48 x 10 pole building, poles on 4' centers (stucco and and rock exterior) solid as hell. With concrete (includes 25' x 50' apron), insulation, drywall and two 75K btu cieling heaters, I'm right at $25K.

Before I started moving **** in I thought "man this thing is massive". Now I'm kind of thinking 40 x 64 would have been better.

Check out this thread on GJ
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=171532&goto=newpost

any pics or build up link of your place?

 

[ZRX61]

I probably wouldn't have 3 doors on the long side, maybe just 2, or 1 double.

 

[woodersen]

Ok, new game plan. After talkin with the mrs, we are going to turn our current attached 2 car into the game room/pool table/tv/ bar area and leave the shop for dirty work. She is going to give up inheriting the 2 car for her car parking to convert it to the game room. Didnt have to ask me twice lol. Im going to draw up a new plan today.

 

[tdkkart]

Minimum 10ft wide doors, with minimum 2ft between, so at least 12ft wide for each bay, 15ft is better for work space with a vehicle in each bay. 9ft doors are a ***** to do anything but drive straight in. Imagine backing a car trailer in, 96"(8ft) wide through 9ft space leaves you 6" on either side. Anything but absolutely straight and you're screwed.
Agree, 30ft minimum depth for bays, mine's 24ft and not enough. My building is 30x40 with the 10ft doors in the 30ft end and a 16ft room partitioned off in the back. REALLY wish it was turned with the doors in the long side.

 

[68 Bird]

any pics or build up link of your place?

No link. Attached are a few from a while back. A couple before stucco, a couple after. The concrete is poured now (floor and 25' x 50' apron). I'm in the process of finishing the interior now (hanging drywall). It's pretty messy but I'll try to take some new pics.

 

[woodersen]

ok fellas. i redid the game plan. looking for advice on this lay out. tried to make it simple looking , but it might seem complicated. basically it makes sense to put hte restroom in the bottom left corner of the shop because thats closest to the water supply, septic and power supply. the covered porch is close to the house, about 4 ft from the house. the shop would be drive-thru, all the way to the back yard. 4 bays 15x25. park 2 cars easily. can squeeze a chassis in there somewhere between the work area and storage area, the door on the left side of the building would lead to the yard. ....i also drew a layout of my property. .....behind the shop would still leave about 100ft wide by 100+ foot deep backyard, and also a 50x75ish lot next to the shop on the left...so still plenty of yard....and room to grow.

the squiggly and dotted lines left of the patio cover lead to the water supply and breaker box.

 

[Nighttrain]

Your layout is close to mine. Things to look for: Will you have a direct run from the bathroom to the septic? Here we have to have a cleanout every 50' . My run will be from the top right of the garage (in picture) close to the house and to the septic. I have the pipe installed at 1/8"/ ft drop.

I really like my patio on the side of the garage. The pool will be between the house and garage. You may want to look at having a patio on that side of the garage. I have a 6' x 7' roll up door on this patio which really opens the garage up to the back yard.

I think the drive thru you have will be nice.

 

[woodersen]

Your layout is close to mine. Things to look for: Will you have a direct run from the bathroom to the septic? Here we have to have a cleanout every 50' . My run will be from the top right of the garage (in picture) close to the house and to the septic. I have the pipe installed at 1/8"/ ft drop.

I really like my patio on the side of the garage. The pool will be between the house and garage. You may want to look at having a patio on that side of the garage. I have a 6' x 7' roll up door on this patio which really opens the garage up to the back yard.

I think the drive thru you have will be nice.

Yes, a direct run. Actually the restroom section is probably 25ft from the main coming out of the house. The most ideal situation would be to have the shop shoved all the way in the back of the property. Pros and cons.....pros....far away. Keep fullsize backyard wide open. ....cons....longer power water and drain. Longer driveway. More labor more work more cost. Trying to pull this off nice for 30k or less. The more i save the more stuff i can buy like lift, tools, project car or parts etc

 

[jam0o0]

mueller treated us well with our hay barn (50'x90'ish). they were real helpful when i was planning a new equipment shed.

get a steel building. they are way more common and cheaper in texas than the pole barns everyone uses up north.

i think you got the message on parking size. but just fyi my f250 (4 door long bed) is 22'x7'. so if you want to walk around it that's 27'x12'.

also car trailers and deckovers are 102" wide not 96".

i'm in the same boat. trying to park 2 and work on 1 plus tools. just a little earlier in the planning than you are. keep us updated.

 

[woodersen]

looking for suggestions on the new design....

 

[matta5]

I have a 30X40X12 Mueller kit building being delivered this week, the base model without doors, windows, or insulation runs 6195.00, I paid about 5000 for my slab so putting it up myself I will come out pretty cheap. I don't know of anyone who has used Mueller but couldn't find anything bad and the price was really good. If you get a kit instead of a custom built building it saves $. I will let you know how it turns out if you want, I'm in TX too.

 

[PetesPonies]

IMO there is no downside of pouring interior concrete after the structure is built. I have it it this way several times.

 

[ksj9393]

Wooderson - Your revised plan is better. I was going to warn you about the hazards of trying to permit a structure in which people will be sleeping. Let's just say... you don't want to go there unless you are prepared to double your budget. At least, that's what I'm finding here with my build.

Further, you were never going to be happy packing 5 pounds of sh*t in a 2# can. S-P-A-C-E... give yourself plenty!! My garage is slated to be 30' x 66' (more-or-less) and I think it will be tight putting three bays and a woodshop, plus the 3/4 bath. I happen to have a loft above for the "guest quarters", but I still think what will actually fit, and what I initially planned on fitting, will differ. And not insignificantly so...

Lastly, here's the guidelines I was given when planning my garage. (Mind you, I'm in Minnesota, so mechanicals and frost depth are issues that you may not need to contend with as I did.) For a bare minimum structure, $15-20 sq. ft. To upgrade (good quality overhead doors, 4" slab, interior sheating on the walls, etc), plan on $30 a sq. ft. to be closer. The more one does themself, the more one could shave off these figures, but no more than about a third if done practically ALL yourself...

How does this fit with the experience of others?