3200 sq ft shop project

[jtillery]

I have spent alot of time doing research for my project on this site, I figured it was about time to do a formal post about it.

It is a 3200 sq ft building located 1.5 miles from my house. It orginally was 30'x40' then they added another 40'x50' onto the back. Some of the interesting features are 4 beams for trolleys/cranes, oil change pit and 3 phase power. It has (3) 10' wide overhead doors and the ceilings are 10'4"-11'6".

The building is structurally solid, but it had been neglected for several years. There was quite a bit of water damage from a leaking rook and a burst pipe that went undetected. The roof was replaced a year ago, but not much cleanup was done.

Here are some pictures right after I purchased it:
Front Area

Main Shop Area

We cleared out 14,000 pounds of junk and scrap metal out of the place. Then powerwashed the walls and the floors. We ran into a surprise, 60% the floor on the front part of the building was asphalt. It was so dirty it looked like it was concrete.

Here are some pictures after powerwashing the front. I couldn't find any of the rear, although I could have sworn I took some.

 

[e-tek]

Did you buy it for work or play?? What do you work on - cars, wood?
Those I-beams are massive - you could many engines from chains there!!
Great space!

 

[talon]

Thats a good size building! Keeps the pics coming

 

[jtillery]

I decided to insulate and drywall all the walls and the ceiling. We also expanded the bathroom and created a trailer storage area and furnace room. All walls were framed with wood studs and we are using 5/8" drywall. I was hesitant to use drywall in the shop, but it was much cheaper than the alternatives and will look the best.

Once we started framing the shop got messy and hasn't been cleaned up good since. You can still get a good idea of what is going on from the pictures, but there is alot of stuff in the way.

Here are some pictures of the framing:

The only drywall that is done is in the bathroom:

 

[cyclopsblown34]

Man, that looks like a killer shop. Keep the photos coming.

 

[jtillery]

I was doing everything in a couple posts, I didn't want to hit the character limit

To answer the questions, I bought it for personal use. I like to work on motorcycles and cars in my spare time. After thinking about it more, I am going to start a small business out of it repairing motorcycles. I already have 100% of the equipment we need and it will be a nice tax writeoff.

We are making alot of progress now, although it got off to a slow start. Here is the rest of what we are doing:

The floor plan of the shop will remain essentially open, the only exception is the trailer storage area. It will have a lounge area with a 32" flatpanel and the bathroom with washer/dryer.

Electrical - gutted everything, upgraded the service and replaced the breaker panel. Added a bunch of 120v, 220v single phase and 240v 3 phase around the shop. Everything is wired with MC cable. Wiring is near complete, it will be finished tomorrow.

Lighting - I bought approximately 30 8' T8 flourescent strip fixtures. They use (4) 4' bulbs each. There will be 1.3 watts per sq ft of lighting. There will also be 6 emergency lights located throughout the shop.

Heating and Cooling - The Reznor that is currently installed has a cracked heat exchanger so it is being removed. In its place will be a 180,000 BTU furnace and a 5 ton air conditioning unit.

Plumbing - Eliminated all the excess plumbing everywhere, and put in a tankless water heater.

Walls/Ceiling - Everything will be insulated and covered with 5/8" drywall. Ceiling will be white, bottom 4' of walls will be a darker grey and top half of walls will be a light grey, royal blue stripe seperating them.

Flooring - I ordered RaceDeck Revolution for the entire shop minus the trailer storage area. The lounge area and bathroom will be graphite, the remaining will be graphite and alloy checkerboard with black and royal blue accents.

Doors - Both entry doors were replaced and all 3 garage doors are being replaced (1 is done, I am doing the other 2 tomorrow).

Security - full alarm with motion detectors and heat sensors and cellular backup. 8 camera system with DVR.

Entertainment - 32" LCD in lounge area, 37" LCD in work area, 2 computers, distributed audio system, Coke Cooler, DSL, phone and DishNetwork HD service.

Shop Equipment - 7.5hp 80 Gallon Dayton air compressor, refrigerated air dryer, Atlas Tire changer and wheel balancer, mid-rise car lift, (2) motorcycle lifts, powdercoat oven, sandblast cabinet and a large selection of air and hand tools (I am sure I am missing stuff).

We are on pace to start insulating by Monday March 9th and drywalling by March 11th. My goal is to have everything finished by mid-April.

Visible progress should come quickly at this stage, so I will keep updating the thread with pictures.

I will take some more current pictures after I clean it up this weekend.

 

[jtillery]

Did you buy it for work or play?? What do you work on - cars, wood?
Those I-beams are massive - you could many engines from chains there!!
Great space!

They are huge, I would hate to try to pick one up

We decided to frame a wall under the one to make the trailer storage area, but we are leaving the 2 in the main shop area and the smaller beam in the secondary work area completely clear.

I have 3 chain fall hoists/trolleys and 1 air operated hoist/trolley. They have worked great unloading stuff, they are going to be real handy when working on stuff. It will be nice not to have to mess with a cherry picker.

 

[Shocker]

For part of the working area, you could look at OSB. The 9/16th stuff is cheaper than drywall in my area by about a buck fifty. Tougher than drywall and it looks pretty good painted.

 

[jtillery]

For part of the working area, you could look at OSB. The 9/16th stuff is cheaper than drywall in my area by about a buck fifty. Tougher than drywall and it looks pretty good painted.

It is the opposite where I am at, the OSB is $1.50-$2.00 per sheet more than 5/8 drywall. I thought long and hard about drywall versus OSB. Long term durability there is no question OSB would have been the better choice. I decided on the drywall since I will like the finished look better and there are very few areas where I will be working very close to the walls anyway. I am assuming even though I am careful, I will need to repair some areas periodicaly.

After I made the drywall decision though, I started seeing more pictures of guys that used galvanized siding/roofing material on the bottom and OSB up top. I really like the look of that, it is probably hard to beat for durability too.

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Congrats on your purchase! 3200 sq.ft. of shop space - impressive. I've wondered what the pros/cons are for buying an existing building versus building new. Not sure where you're located, but I imagine the price was attractive given the condition of the roof and the water damage, plus the current real estate market downturn. Besides, your place looks like it is brimming with 'character' and probably has quite a history to it. Care to share your considerations in buying/remodeling it?

 

[jtillery]

Congrats on your purchase! 3200 sq.ft. of shop space - impressive. I've wondered what the pros/cons are for buying an existing building versus building new. Not sure where you're located, but I imagine the price was attractive given the condition of the roof and the water damage, plus the current real estate market downturn. Besides, your place looks like it is brimming with 'character' and probably has quite a history to it. Care to share your considerations in buying/remodeling it?

I live just outside of Cleveland, Ohio, our house is on a relatively small city lot. I originally planned on building there, I thought I could get a 30'x40' approved through variance, but they wouldn't budge off the maximum garage size of 24'x24' no matter what I tried. We really like the house, close proximity to work and the lake so I started looking for a building to buy about 3 years ago. I rented a 1800 sq ft shop ($200/month) for about a year and currently am renting a 2200 sq ft shop ($600/month). Both places worked out pretty, but they were 20 minutes from my house and it wasn't feasible to heat them well in the winter. The main thing that stopped me from making a move was property taxes. I was looking at 2000-5000 sq ft buildings and the taxes were $400-$1000/month. I couldn't justify spending more on property taxes than the current rent I was paying.

The building I bought wasn't ideal, but it has a lot of potential. One of the big draws is there is a nice 3 bedroom rental house on the property, it is currently rented for $850/month (which is below market for the area) so it covers the property taxes ($400/month), insurance premiums and my utilities. It also is zoned industrial so I have alot of flexibility. The previous owner bought it mid-2005 (which was shortly after the start of the real estate decline in our area) for $275,000, I paid $125,000. The water damage wasn't as bad as it looked. The roof had already been replaced when I bought it which was the most significant expense. The office and bathroom needed to be ripped out. We also powerwashed the walls/ceiling and floors with bleach to kill any remaining mold/mildew.

I am going well beyond what needed to be done to get the shop functional, but I figured I mine as well make it nice since I intend to own it for alot of years. The renovation costs will be less than $30,000. I have bought essentiall everything except for paint and I have spent $27,500 so far. The only hired labor is the HVAC work.

Buying versus building will really depend on your unique situation. I think it is safe to assume that if you would have to purchase land to build, then it will be cheaper to buy an existing building than to build something similar. If you have very unique criteria or have enough land at your current house and the city approval, then it will probably make sense to build.

I made some good progress on the shop yesterday. We installed the final 2 garage doors and finished most of the little odds and end framing. We need to finish up a couple minor wiring tasks then start insulating, we should be hanging drywall within 1 week. I am going to clean the shop up good on Sunday, I will ad some updated pics then.

 

[Old61]

That's a great deal and with the improvements will be a fantastic shop! When you start hanging the rock, be sure to keep it a min of 1/2" off the floor. I would have preferred steel studs to wood in that shop but the wood will outlast me, I'm sure!

 

[jtillery]

That's a great deal and with the improvements will be a fantastic shop! When you start hanging the rock, be sure to keep it a min of 1/2" off the floor. I would have preferred steel studs to wood in that shop but the wood will outlast me, I'm sure!

Metal studs are more common for a project like this, but I decided on the wood for several reasons. The main reason is I wanted to be able to hang stuff wherever I wanted. I was trying to plan for future uses as much as possible. I could have put bracing in areas where I thought I would need it, but with my luck, I would need it somewhere I didn't have it. Also, at the start of the project I was buying most of the material at Home Depot. They didn't have any metal studs longer than 8', and I needed alot of 12' studs. Metal was about 1.5 times the cost of the wood. Once I got into the project more, I found out that I was buying large enough quantities of stuff to be able to buy from builder supply places without being a contractor. The stuff is easier to get there and was cheaper than Home Depot.

We used treated lumber anywhere there is contact with concrete. I think the wood studs will outlast me as well. We will definitely be keeping the drywall off the floor at least a 1/2".

Thanks

 

[Omphaloskeptic]

Wow! All that space for less than $160,000 with improvements AND it has instant income with the rental property. It sounds like you've made quite a good choice. No waiting on permits, contractors, weather, etc.. and you'll be able to hang your MC Repair shingle out by April. Congrats again and best of luck on your new venture. Thanks for sharing your insights and decision process.

 

[alor14582]

great move snf great buy cant wait to see the progress on sunday

 

[fasteddie24]

What does the outside look like? I love old, classic, industrial architecture. I'm in metro Detroit and like to drive around checking out old buildings.

 

[jtillery]

What does the outside look like? I love old, classic, industrial architecture. I'm in metro Detroit and like to drive around checking out old buildings.

The exterior isn't anything special, it really looks alot smaller than what it is (which I like since it doesn't draw much attention). The previous owner was trying to sell the building for 2 years, I am convinced alot of the problem was his realtor listed it as a 3 bedroom house with a 3+ car garage in the residential section. I drove by it a year before I bought it and didn't realize what it really is.

Here is a picture taken right after the sale closed. Since then we have replaced all the garage doors and replaced the front entrance door. Once it warms up this spring we are going to replace the windows, gutters, remove the awning and paint the entire exterior, it will look alot nicer then.

 

[jtillery]

I had big plans for cleaning up the place on Sunday, but it ended up being very unproductive. No matter what I did, there was problems. I got the trailer storage area clean, so there are some pictures of it below. I will add others as I clean up and take the pictures.

The trailer storage is approximately 14' wide and 42' deep.

 

[jtillery]

Well, we have been working hard on the shop, but I haven't really gotten around to cleaning it up good and taking pictures. I took some last night with my cell phone, they aren't the greatest, but at least it is an update. We are going to start insulation/drywall tomorrow.

 

[mrb]

$125K? I HATE YOU!

Building (and the land under it) like that where I am (kinda expensive area of So Cal) would cost around a million, maybe a little more.

 

[jtillery]

$125K? I HATE YOU!

Building (and the land under it) like that where I am (kinda expensive area of So Cal) would cost around a million, maybe a little more.

I did get a good deal on the place there is a huge cost of living difference between California and Cleveland. Last time I checked the average engineer right out of college gets 60k in California, in Cleveland, they are lucky to get 30-35k.

 

[alor14582]

what kind of motorcycle lift is that? how u get the coke fridge?

 

[Ivan]

Hi jtillery, great project and a great deal.

Once it warms up this spring we are going to replace the windows, gutters, remove the awning and paint the entire exterior, it will look alot nicer then.

Old red-brick always looks good to me, like it belongs in the landscape with its natural pigmentation an' all. Classy, you know!

My preference would be to keep the red-brick and paint everything else. If you want to clean it up you could sandblast and repoint it with new mortar.

"My two cents", as Kent Brockman once said.

Good luck.

 

[jtillery]

what kind of motorcycle lift is that? how u get the coke fridge?

It is a Direct Lift ProCycle XLT. I bought it from Greg Smith Equipment. They are direct copies of the Handy lifts and are 1/2 the price. For the lift, ATV extensions and jack it was under $700.

I got the Coke Fridge of Craigslist from a small restaraunt that was closing. We have an account with the Coke distributor at work for our vending machine, so I just ordered all the drinks from them.

 

[jtillery]

Hi jtillery, great project and a great deal.



Old red-brick always looks good to me, like it belongs in the landscape with its natural pigmentation an' all. Classy, you know!

My preference would be to keep the red-brick and paint everything else. If you want to clean it up you could sandblast and repoint it with new mortar.

"My two cents", as Kent Brockman once said.

Good luck.

Thanks. I haven't decided what to do with brick, I have never liked the looks of painted brick. One problem I need to address is the brick isn't securely fastened to the concrete block behind it. We got some large iscicles this winter and it pulled the brick away from the concrete. I either need to get it secured, or take the brick down.

 

[ahaidet]

I did get a good deal on the place there is a huge cost of living difference between California and Cleveland. Last time I checked the average engineer right out of college gets 60k in California, in Cleveland, they are lucky to get 30-35k.

That place looks awesome and may be what I have to try and do in the future. I live in an area that I like right now other than the damn zoning. Zoning says all unattached buildings have to have less than 500SF. No attached garages bigger than a 3 car garage. I have a 2 car attached right now and a detached 500sqft. I would like to have more storage/shop area as already have most of that filled up. Plus in your shop I bet you have access to 3 phase electric.


Are you an engineer? What type? I graduated a little over a year ago and make way more than what you quote for Cleveland and I work in Akron. I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering. I had several offers in Cleveland area for closer to what you quoted for California.

 

[jtillery]

That place looks awesome and may be what I have to try and do in the future. I live in an area that I like right now other than the damn zoning. Zoning says all unattached buildings have to have less than 500SF. No attached garages bigger than a 3 car garage. I have a 2 car attached right now and a detached 500sqft. I would like to have more storage/shop area as already have most of that filled up. Plus in your shop I bet you have access to 3 phase electric.

There definitely is alot more flexibility with commercial/industrial zoned properties. The downside is you are required to have stamped drawings whenever you want to pull a building permit and property taxes are much higher. Ohio building limits private garage uses to 1000 sq ft. There is an exception to go larger, but the major repair area must be 1000 sq ft or smaller and have fire seperation from the storage portion of the building. With alot of smaller companies going out of business right now, there is a very good supply of commercial buildings on the market right now.

Are you an engineer? What type? I graduated a little over a year ago and make way more than what you quote for Cleveland and I work in Akron. I have a BS in Mechanical Engineering. I had several offers in Cleveland area for closer to what you quoted for California.

I am not an engineer but my father and I own a recruiting firm that specializes in placement of engineers. You are making excellent money with the amount of experience you have. It isn't rare to see an engineer with 10 years experience and a good education still making 50k.

 

[jtillery]

The insulation and drywall was supposed to be delivered Thursday at 8am, they finally showed up at 3:30pm and it took them nearly an hour to unload. The overhead power lines made it a tight fit for their boom truck.

Our first project was to drywall the furnace room since they will be starting the furnace and ductwork installation on Monday.

We also hung the wall that seperates the trailer storage area from the rest of the shop:

I forgot how heavy 5/8" drywall is. We are using 9'-16' board. My buddy is coming tomorrow morning to help hang all day. Hopefully we get alot done.

 

[e-tek]

Man - incredible space! Maybe you could rent space out to a few buds to help with the expenses?!

 

[toadjammer]

Congrats on the great space. I found a similar space although mine was a commercial building that is now in a stricly residential area. E-tek, if jtillery's insurance is anything like mine they wanted to make sure that it was strictly non-comercial, norental of any space inside or out for storage or use. It sounds kinda obsurd, but after being in the place for a while I find it will be difficult to have enough room for just myself, although if a friend does need a hand I am more than willing to help with space or tools.

 

[TejasBimmer]

Damn....$125K for that!!!! Yep you made my hate you list....
Any graphic of the layout you plan for your new shop, garage, business...?

 

[Skyline]

Great work so far! It's going to be an awesome space.

I've got one question about the recent sheetrock photos. It looks from the photos like you're only using screws on the edges of the board. Doesn't one need to put screws in the middle (along the studs) as well? Or did you just not get to that point yet?

 

[jtillery]

Congrats on the great space. I found a similar space although mine was a commercial building that is now in a stricly residential area. E-tek, if jtillery's insurance is anything like mine they wanted to make sure that it was strictly non-comercial, norental of any space inside or out for storage or use. It sounds kinda obsurd, but after being in the place for a while I find it will be difficult to have enough room for just myself, although if a friend does need a hand I am more than willing to help with space or tools.

I offered to let my friend do some work out of the space, he is a certified motorcycle technician. He would make the majority of the money, but would need to kick some cash in to cover utilities, insurance, etc. Right now my insurance is just for private use, if I mix any commercial use in, I will have to get different insurance.

There is alot of space, but it actually won't be enough to store all the vehicles I own and still have room to work. I am addicted to eBay and Craigslist Once this is done, I am going to take a little rest then rebuilt the garage at the house to handle some storage for the rest of the stuff.

 

[jtillery]

I've got one question about the recent sheetrock photos. It looks from the photos like you're only using screws on the edges of the board. Doesn't one need to put screws in the middle (along the studs) as well? Or did you just not get to that point yet?

The majority of the sheets are just up with nails right now to hold them there temporarily. My screw gun was acting up, so we are going to go back later and fully screw all the boards.

 

[jtillery]

Any graphic of the layout you plan for your new shop, garage, business...?

Here is a link for the electrical plan. It shows the floor plan of the shop and work areas.

I have all the tools/equipment/workbenches locations planned out, but I never took the time to draw it up. The majority of the stuff will be located on the walls in the motorcycle and car work area that have duplex outlets noted on the plans.

 

[jtillery]

I am a little disspointed with the progress on Sunday. We insulated the majority of the lounge and motorcycle work area. We finished the drywall on the wall between the motorcycle work area and the trailer storage and started the ceiling/walls in the lounge area. In retrospect, I would never use 16' 5/8" drywall again, it is too heavy to put up efficiently for a couple of guys that do not regularly hang drywall. Here are some updated pictures:

Lounge Area Insulation:

Lounge Area Drywall:

Motorcycle Work Area Drywall:

 

[toadjammer]

There is alot of space, but it actually won't be enough to store all the vehicles I own and still have room to work. I am addicted to eBay and Craigslist :

I know what you mean, I was thinking I had alot of room till I started to shop eBay and a some local auctions. Personally right now I am considering keeping all of my machines at my home garage and using the shop space strictly automotive work and storage.

Best of luck with your continuing build.

 

[jtillery]

I know what you mean, I was thinking I had alot of room till I started to shop eBay and a some local auctions. Personally right now I am considering keeping all of my machines at my home garage and using the shop space strictly automotive work and storage.

Best of luck with your continuing build.

I just looked at the pictures of your garage, looks real nice, you definitely have collected alot of machines

I have a habit of looking for parts for a project vehicle and ending up with other vehicles because they were a good deal. The worst was when I bought my first motorcycle, an 87 CBR600 that needed some work. Within 3 years time I had bought/fixed/sold over 20 87-88 CBR600s. I always make money on the stuff though, so it is a great way to have fun without spending money. It really gets out of hand though. I currently have 2 trucks, 3 cars, 7 motorcycles, jetski, small sailboat, and 2 trailers. In the past year I have owned/sold another truck, suv, 4 motorcycles, 7 cars, 2 jetskis, boat, trailer, and a 4 wheeler.

 

[e-tek]

I just looked at the pictures of your garage, looks real nice, you definitely have collected alot of machines

I have a habit of looking for parts for a project vehicle and ending up with other vehicles because they were a good deal. The worst was when I bought my first motorcycle, an 87 CBR600 that needed some work. Within 3 years time I had bought/fixed/sold over 20 87-88 CBR600s. I always make money on the stuff though, so it is a great way to have fun without spending money. It really gets out of hand though. I currently have 2 trucks, 3 cars, 7 motorcycles, jetski, small sailboat, and 2 trailers. In the past year I have owned/sold another truck, suv, 4 motorcycles, 7 cars, 2 jetskis, boat, trailer, and a 4 wheeler.

SO.....are you ahead or behind???

 

[jtillery]

SO.....are you ahead or behind???

Depends on what you are talking about

Financially I am ahead Sanity - not so much...

My initial investment was $1,700 for the first 2 motorcycles and a bunch of spare parts about 7 years ago. I wasn't buying the 1st motorcycle to try to make money, it was strictly for me to ride. Within 6 months, I had bought/repaired/sold a couple motorcycles so I put the $1700 back in the bank and used the remaining money to fund ongoing projects and new toys. Currently, I am sitting on $10,000 in excess cash and the following vehicles that are all paid for in full by the proceeds from previous sales:

Cars:
1992 Mustang 5.0 Supercharged Convertible
1993 Mustang 5.0 Hatchback

Motorcycles:
2007 Yamaha R6
2003 Honda CBR600RR
1999 Suzuki GSXR600
1998 Kawasaki Ninja 250
1992 Honda CBR600F2
1991 Honda CBR1000F
1990 Honda CBR1000F

4 Wheeler:
2000 Yamaha Grizzly 600

Watercraft:
1996 Sea-Doo SPX
Sunfish Sailboat

Trailers:
6x12 Enclosed
18' Car Trailer

I estimate that I am ahead at least $50,000-$60,000, especially when you consider all the extra parts and tools I have that are not mentioned above. Everything was done in my spare time to have fun.