384 square feet!

[4wd4ever]

Hey all, I'm new to the forum and am looking for some advise on building my garage.
As the title states I can only build 384 sqft and the peek can't be higher than 15 ft. It will be for one car plus tools and such. I'm hoping, with the right planning that I can get all I need in this small space. I'm thinking to build it 16 wide by 24 deep with 11 ft walls. I'm hoping to add a lift in the future so I know I need to beef up the foundation but other than that I'm hoping y'all could show or tell or show and tell some great ideas and layouts.

Any tips and layout ideas and any othe info would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you in advance and I'll keep you posted as to the build!

 

[jrmylmach1]

That is a small size. The main thing that came to mind is to put large dormers on either side of the peak. this will give you some extra storage in the attic or give you some extra headroom for your lift if you don't have an attic.

Jeremy

 

[darkk]

I agree, 11ft walls and finish the inside of the roof rafters to get as much open space as possible. If going with a 2 post lift, Do a 6" reinforced floor, insulated the hell out of it to keep warm in cold weather and cool in warm weather...

 

[5lima30]

Another option might be a gambrel style roof that would maximize your overhead space. YMMV.

 

[Carl B]

I'd make it 17.4 foot wide and 22 foot deep.
That would give me - about 16' x 20.5' interior

Facing the garage:
With a 10' wide garage in the center -
I'd have 3' of floor space for 36" deep package racking, work benches, tool boxes etc on both the left and right sides. That's 42 running feet for storage of items 3 ft. wide or less.

If you make it 16' x 24' - you will have about 14 1/2 x 22 1/2 interior. Take 10' out of that for the garage door and it only leaves you 2 1/4 ft on each side. Then you have to put work bench/package racks across the rear wall - and that is only 22 1/2 wide - plus the car will be right up against it.

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[4wd4ever]

Thank you all for the replies! Keep em coming!

I checked with the city and I can not put dormers on it. I was thinking of off setting the door to one side so I could build the benches to the other...

Cheers!
Rick

 

[nocarier]

Hey Rick, I recently built a 16x24 detached garage on my property.

Here are a few pictures that might be able to help you.

Oh, and I am also new to this forum as well.

 

[nocarier]

Here is a picture of the inside.

 

[1320stang]

Which way will the long way run? N/S or E/W? If you offset the door, to which side?

 

[bobadame]

How about a basement?

 

[bczygan]

They can't stop you from building with a flat roof or a flat roof with mansard to get all the height you need. Of course the flat roof needs some slope to drain. Use 1/4" per foot at least.
Also think about connecting it to the main structure so it is a part of the house and NOT an accessory building. Different rules apply then and size and height might not be as restricted. A breezeway might count as connection!

 

[1930artdeco]

Hi Rick,

I am doing this same thing right now except mine is going to be roughly 12x30 with a laundry room at the back. I will be squeezing every square inch for storage space with two cars and a motocycle. I saw one guy here has a really cool garage that has worktables that fold up against the walls.

Mike

 

[Xenocide]

Small?? That's massive .

Stupid small england and it's stupid small garages!

 

[Raze]

This one is a 20x18 that might prove inspirational, it's a 2 bay: http://garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59907. The key with your space as it sounds it to think vertically and horizontally along walls, with minimal floor space impacted by tools and equipment. That means I'd go with tall cabinets/lots of shelves. Shallower work benches that are longer. Large equipment that folds up or is upright to begin with (think air compressor). Peg board for tool storage since it removes floor space sucking toolboxes. As has been mentioned think of fold out work benches that only stick out several inches from the wall when stored. Once you reorganize your plans to think vertical and shallow you'd be surprised how much stuff you can fit into a small garage...

I have a bit of the same problem, my 2 car is 20x18 with 11.5' ceilings. I don't have a lot of floor space so I built shallow and up

 

[quick60]

YES that is a good point bczygan!!! A friend wanted to build a 40 x 60 but could not due to restrictions on detached garages. He attached it to the house with a breezeway and it bacame a "addition".

 

[timgr]

My garage is 21'x17' (357 sq ft) and is one of the few detached garages in the neighborhood. My side walls are 7' high, but I don't know what the peak height is - I expect it's within the 15' limit you stated.

It's not a large space, but it's enough for a single car and space to work. The door is offset to one side of the garage, leaving some workspace on one side. I suspect that if you center the door, you won't be happy with the amount of room for your bench, roll-aways and shelving. better to have enough room on one side than too little room on both sides.

This much space is fine for working on my Golf or CJ-6, but the J-trucks really fill it up. I suggest you expand outdoors as much as you can, with a large, level concrete pad you can work on in good weather, and as many outbuildings as your community will allow. Would it be possible to put the lift outdoors? A shed to keep the lawn/garden implements out of the garage will be a big help. In my town, the shed size is limited, but there's no set-back requirement for a shed - this gives me some options for shed location that I don't have with the garage.

My main difficulty is with siting equipment. I just don't have the floor space for a lot of equipment, so I must choose carefully.

 

[4wd4ever]

Thanx again for all the ideas and input. I am limited in both attached and detached structures. My lot size is 33x118 ft and I can only use 10% for a detached building and the same for attached, but that includes my patio and both my landing for stairs. I do plan on keeping some attached room for storage of lawn stuff and misc outdoor stuff. I may keep some of my old carport pad for parking but I'd also like some grass for the kids...lol I'll see if I can upload a draft of my proposed site plan for y'all to check out..

Thanx again and keep the ideas coming!
Rick

 

[Neuswede]

You did say you were considering a lift? 11 ft. ceilings might make it a little tight for a regular 2 post, so you might consider a mid-rise or a portable 2 post such as the Max Jack from Dannmar. The best route is determine what vehicle size you are or will be working with...then determine how much lift you need. Depending on the type of work you may be doing, a 4 post might be a way to go, in which case you could stack 2 cars in space of 1 bay. I helped a friend build his garage with 11 ft. ceilings, and while he only has low-slung sports cars, a 12 ft. ceiling would have been preferred.

For some additional clearance, consider the possibility of a scissor-style truss, which would allow for more height compared to traditional framing or truss styles. Your snow load capacity will also dictate your requirements for the trussing of the roof. Are you in a 30 lb. or 50 lb. area?

 

[ddawg16]

I had a 15' height limit with mine as well.....and I still got a second story out of mine....

If you want a lift....put it to one side and make the other side a work space with a second floor mezineen....that is what a friend of mine did....

My garage is 20'x25'....you can see how I did the 2nd floor in my build....the link is in my sig.

No mater what...go longer vs wider....20' is just not deep enough with a car in there....

 

[4wd4ever]

So what I'm thinking is something similar to this one in the link

http://www.rona.ca/rona/img/682-1_ATTACHMENT1025812800075.pdf

The 16x24 design, but the trusses going the opposite way(width wise) and the door at the opposite end. I'd also not go in a bit by the bay door I'd go straight across. What do all think?

 

[Carl B]

Hey Rick, I recently built a 16x24 detached garage on my property.

Here are a few pictures that might be able to help you.

Oh, and I am also new to this forum as well.

See Pictures at Post #7
The problem I had {several houses before} with the garage door offset to the Left in a 16" wide garage - was that you normally get in/out of the car on the Left Side. With that setup I had too little room to swing the car door fully open without hitting the wall. So I pulled the car in as close to the right side of the door as possible.. You can guess what happened the third of fourth time my wife backed the car out.... lucky not too much damage was done to the right side of the car - It was of course "my fault" for parking so close to the right side of the door.

Just my experience..
FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[gsport]

i have a friend who wanted a detached garage of a certain size (don't remember the size)... they said no, he changed and called it a "barn" and it was ok'd

 

[bczygan]

YES that is a good point bczygan!!! A friend wanted to build a 40 x 60 but could not due to restrictions on detached garages. He attached it to the house with a breezeway and it bacame a "addition".

Sometimes the breezeway must be fully enclosed, sometimes a walkway with a roof will do. And it need not block the yard. The walls can be glass doors that you can open or even remove entirely.

 

[bczygan]

So what I'm thinking is something similar to this one in the link

http://www.rona.ca/rona/img/682-1_ATTACHMENT1025812800075.pdf

The 16x24 design, but the trusses going the opposite way(width wise) and the door at the opposite end. I'd also not go in a bit by the bay door I'd go straight across. What do all think?

Use a gambrel roof and you will have room for a lift!!!
Put in as wide and as tall a door as possible so bigger vehicles and vehicles with roof racks and things on them can go in easily. Also use 10' high walls. I would use a 12x12 door or at least 12 wide by 10 high, and it would end up something like this:

 

[Carl B]

So what I'm thinking is something similar to this one in the link

The 16x24 design, but the trusses going the opposite way(width wise) and the door at the opposite end. I'd also not go in a bit by the bay door I'd go straight across. What do all think?

As I mentioned earlier - I would not want the car on the Left Side of the garage. Parking or working on the car you want full access to the Drivers Side of the Car.

Running the trusses the way shown in the drawing - using the right truss design - might allow headroom above for a later lift.

With the bay door offset - to one side or the other - and the trusses running across the width - the trusses would always be too low on the sides of the garage to ever hope to put a lift in. Running the trusses front to rear - you might have enough height for a lift centered in the length of the garage..

FWIW,
Carl B

 

[Carl B]

Use a gambrel roof and you will have room for a lift!!!
Put in as wide and as tall a door as possible so bigger vehicles and vehicles with roof racks and things on them can go in easily. Also use 10' high walls. I would use a 12x12 door or at least 12 wide by 10 high, and it would end up something like this:

I agree with putting the highest garage door in that you can. I also like the idea of a gambrel roof {although relatively expensive} - But wonder - with the 15' height restriction he's limited too - and the offset door he seems to want - how tall could the garage walls and door be?

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[4wd4ever]

Yes, I agree with what you all are saying, but I cannot attach it to the house- it will cause me to be over on my attached structures allowance. I think I may move the door over to the other side-it would be easier anyway to drive or back in. I wont be parking my Jeep in there on a regular basis- my 73 Vega drag car project will get the most garage time, along with some customer cars...that's the reason for the lift.
Thank you all for the replies and great ideas! Keep em coming!

Ps any thots on wall coverings? Drywall vs OSB?

 

[bczygan]

I agree with putting the highest garage door in that you can. I also like the idea of a gambrel roof {although relatively expensive} - But wonder - with the 15' height restriction he's limited too - and the offset door he seems to want - how tall could the garage walls and door be?

FWIW,
Carl B.

There ARE limits. But putting in a wider door solves the offset problem, although as one poster mentioned, it cuts down on the depth on each side of the door for storage, so you need to balance these things out.
Also with the height of walls and door. If you have 15' total, and use a 12' high door you end up with just 3' for whatever kind of roof it is. And probably just enough room for a low slope gable 3/12 or so).
So the best compromise would probably be a 10' high x 10' wide door centered in the end wall. You would still need to look at making the short 3' walls on either side into shear walls to prevent racking.
I would also go with a 10' high wall, leaving 5' for the gambrel roof to arch up. This would give good proportions and maybe just enough room for the lift in the middle.
10' high walls still look pretty tall so you could extend the gambrel roof down below 10' creating an overhang and minimizing the apparent height of the wall as viewed from the outside.
If this makes the structure seem top heavy then increase the wall height.
To get the most volume in the gambrel roof, make the slope of the lower section more vertical (Steeper) and make the slope of the upper section more horizontal (Shallower). Almost to the point of getting a box. Roof the upper section in rubber roofing if necessary. Carefully design the members and especially the connections for the gambrel roof at the peak, midpoint and eave as there will be no ceiling joists to prevent lateral thrust on the side walls. The rafters for the gambrel need to be deep members anyway to be able to get some insulation up there.
Should be able to get 13' plus headroom for the width of anything on the lift.

 

[Brad54]

You need to do just a little reverse-engineering here:
First, determine what kind of vehicle you're likely to have in there.
But more importantly, you need to PLAN it around a lift.
Decide if you're going to get a 2- or 4-post lift, and then call around and get the lengths and widths of each.

Then get some graph paper and lay out the lift, your benches, shelves, drill press, air compressor, etc. etc. and see which ways work better.

You should really go with 12-foot walls... if nothing else, it cuts back on waste for the wall studs! Plus the time of cutting a foot off each and every stud.

For me, in a one-car garage, I'd make it so there was work area in front of the vehicle, and then storage down the walls, high on the wall like a mezzanine.

In fact, if you got a 4-post lift, you could have a full mezzanine all the way around the garage, with the lift going up into the middle of it.

Also, you only need 7 feet of head room for your work area, so don't waste a foot of storage by making a mezzanine 8 feet up.

-Brad

 

[964haus]

They can't stop you from building with a flat roof or a flat roof with mansard to get all the height you need. Of course the flat roof needs some slope to drain. Use 1/4" per foot at least.
Also think about connecting it to the main structure so it is a part of the house and NOT an accessory building. Different rules apply then and size and height might not be as restricted. A breezeway might count as connection!

Actually, in all likelihood, they can. If New West is anything like Vancouver, there will be a zoning bylaw for your property as well as design guidelines, which vary depending where you are located. Typically the design guidelines will include 'suggestions' for how the house/building should be designed (including roof lines, materials, etc) and can be very specific especially if you're in a historic area. Also (again, depending on your zoning) there is usually a design review where your design approval is often at the discretion of the planner or plan checker.

Check your zoning /guidelines as they related to height. Often there will be a provision in there for height at a certain point, i.e. 15' measured to the halfway point of the roof for one roof style and a lower height allowed for another roof treatment. Within that there could be wiggle room on how you deal with the roof to gain the maximum space while not overdoing your maximum square footage allowance.

I'm in a similar situation here in Vancouver, on a 33'x122' lot where the guidelines restrict immensely what you can build. Something like yours is all I could ever build.....

M.

 

[bczygan]

Actually, in all likelihood, they can. If New West is anything like Vancouver, there will be a zoning bylaw for your property as well as design guidelines, which vary depending where you are located. Typically the design guidelines will include 'suggestions' for how the house/building should be designed (including roof lines, materials, etc) and can be very specific especially if you're in a historic area. Also (again, depending on your zoning) there is usually a design review where your design approval is often at the discretion of the planner or plan checker.

Check your zoning /guidelines as they related to height. Often there will be a provision in there for height at a certain point, i.e. 15' measured to the halfway point of the roof for one roof style and a lower height allowed for another roof treatment. Within that there could be wiggle room on how you deal with the roof to gain the maximum space while not overdoing your maximum square footage allowance.

I'm in a similar situation here in Vancouver, on a 33'x122' lot where the guidelines restrict immensely what you can build. Something like yours is all I could ever build.....

M.

Sounds like they have closed some of the loopholes we designers found in the initial round of height and area restrictions. One trick if the height was measured to the midpoint of the roof slope, was to make the roof a really short mansard on top of a tall wall.
The last bastion of control will be underground. Does any jurisdiction restrict how deep and completely you can cover your lot if the areas are underground?
Too bad that regulations don't guarantee good proportions, pleasing design or even good design.

 

[nickleone]

I saw a garage with bay windows for the work area. If the town measures the footprint of the slab to determine sq footage the "bay windows" will up your workspace.

Nick

 

[4wd4ever]

Ok, I plrinted off some guidelines. The roof pitch has to be better than 4/12 or the overall height can't exceed 12 feet. So if my math is correct if I build 11 foot walls and and use a 5/12 pitch spanning the 16 feet, my trusses should be 3' 8" from the top of the 2x4's to the peek. That leaves me 4" for finishing the roof. They measure from the top of the finished floor to the highest point of the garage.
I have done some looking at lifts and I would prefer a 2 post. I found one that will work with 11 foot ceilings...at a place called Princess Auto here in Canada, and it looks to sell for around 2k...I'll keep looking but at least I know it can work.

Thank you all so much and I really appreciate all the time you all are putting into helping me! I'll post some pics of what I just cleaned out and am going to tear down to make room and I'll try and upload my site plan.

Thanx again!
Rick

 

[bczygan]

Ok, I plrinted off some guidelines. The roof pitch has to be better than 4/12 or the overall height can't exceed 12 feet. So if my math is correct if I build 11 foot walls and and use a 5/12 pitch spanning the 16 feet, my trusses should be 3' 8" from the top of the 2x4's to the peek. That leaves me 4" for finishing the roof. They measure from the top of the finished floor to the highest point of the garage.
I have done some looking at lifts and I would prefer a 2 post. I found one that will work with 11 foot ceilings...at a place called Princess Auto here in Canada, and it looks to sell for around 2k...I'll keep looking but at least I know it can work.

Thank you all so much and I really appreciate all the time you all are putting into helping me! I'll post some pics of what I just cleaned out and am going to tear down to make room and I'll try and upload my site plan.

Thanx again!
Rick

Make it 4 1/2 and 12. Don't give away anything you don't have to. Means 3' of slope. If you use 2x8's for rafters (To get some insulation in there) and a ridge beam and collar ties and no ceiling joists your top of wall will be about 11'-4"AFF (Above Finish Floor). Your height inside in the middle of the space for an 8' wide lift will be about 12'-10" minimum. In fact, you could set your collar ties at this height to create a bit of a truss. Or you could have trusses made like this, with the bottom chord at 12'-10" and the rafter ends extended down and out to set on the wall top plate. You would be able to get more insulation in the ceiling this way. Understand what I'm saying? Look at the following drawing. I'm talking about the truss on the bottom. Notice how the bottom chord is raised up? It raises the ceiling in the middle just where you need it. The top chord or sloped rafter would need to be a 2x8 though to get room for insulation and to be strong enough. It would allow you to use trusses and eliminate the need for a ridge beam and stronger header above the door. This gives you the most height inside.

Do they have minimum standards for insulation?

 

[4wd4ever]

Yes I kinda understand what you are saying...that bottom truss looks perfect for what I want! Thank you sooo much! That's rad! Yes I said rad!

And no they don't seem to have any standards for insulation for a detached garage, but I want to insulate it.

 

[4wd4ever]

I did a search and came up empty...I'm looking into using a rollup type door and want to know the pros and cons...I know it frees up the overhead by about 13 feet but what are your thots?

Thanx again!

 

[4wd4ever]

Excavator comes tomorrow...met with a guy who will do all the framing for the footings and he will start the day after it's surveyed! I'm very excited, it's taken to long to get this far! I'll post pics as it goes.

Thanx for all the help! Y'all are a rad group!

 

[bobemmerich]

Good to hear. My "garage' is 16x20 and i have plenty of room for my vehicle, 2 tool boxes, a 5' bench, some cabinets and a parts washer. As soon as i get it organized, i'll post up some pics.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My best tip is to build a very heavy duty shelf across the back. Make certain it is high enough to easily get the front of your car underneath. Mine is about 54" off the floor. It is also about 4' deep. Mine has hundreds of pounds of stuff stacked on it. With 8' walls I still had enough room to build another shelf above it. This one is only about 18" deep, but it holds a lot !

With 11' walls, you could easily build a 2-3' wide shelf about 2-3' down on the back and 2 side walls. I used heavy duty shelf brackets from HD and just lagged them into the studs.

Gambrel should maximize the interior volume. The only issue is with a 16' width do you need cross beams to prevent the sides from bowing out.

 

[metal1313]

i would go with carriage doors, you may have to make them, but commercial roll ups are expensive and dont seal well