3D printers

[AndyL]

So who has the fun toys here?

Started building an eventorbot this weekend, was debating between a reprap vs Fab@home vs... well the list gets long... this one finally peaked my interest.

http://reprap.org/wiki/Eventorbot

Of course, can't build anything to plan so we stretched x/z a wee bit (6") and had 3" tube hanging around, and 2.5" would have required shopping... and those printed legs - well why print when I have the tube and welder out anyway...

Still going to run the basic design, but eyeballing up dual extruders, and have a feeling I'm shopping for 12mm rod, instead of the 8mm due to axis length... and that redirod/allthread will get dumped for acme...

Gotta order some electronics still, I really want r2c2 - but not at that price... and I don't like this single source scenario...

Anyone else working on the 3D printer scenario?

 

[zuk123]

My buddy and I are noodling around with the idea. I have a mini mill and mini lathe, both set up for CNC. I thought we would get those working first. then we could build parts for the printer.

I'm interested in that printer. It seems like most of the reprap projects on the net spend most of their time messing with the printer and not actually printing parts.

Keep posting, it's a cool project.

zuk

 

[AndyL]

Yeah, this was one of my reasons for liking this version... strucurally not printed, or made of non-structural materials... yes still need a printer to build the drives, but that's better than 500 pieces for a frame...

I really liked the Fab at home - and having a laser cnc at my hackerspace - that was an easy choice... but then I saw the fiddling and breakage first hand...

 

[AndyL]

Irony... Printing Eventorbot parts with a Thing-O-Matic

 

[Stuey]

Don't have one but am trying to figure out if I can justify it or not.

I'm struggling to see if I can get a positive ROI if I purchase a Makerbot. There are a lot of designs I'd like to experiment with but I can't really justify it just yet. =(

 

[SpeedyGee]

I'm toying with building an Mendel Max 3D printer, it uses aluminum extrusions for the frame. It's sturdier and looks better than a Prusa.

I've not really looked into the Eventorbot option, how does a Eventorbot compare to a MendelMax ? Any ideas ?

 

[AndyL]

Eventorbot is new design, but basically reprap hardware (so not a lot different than the mendelmax - same drives etc - just the frame varies)

After this one - I'm absofrickinglutely doing a rostock max (or variation of the rostock anyway) http://reprap.org/wiki/Rostock_MAX

[youtube]3Lg3IokWYeQ[/img]

 

[Drunken Yak inc]

I've been contemplating one for a while, I'm just way to ignorant on the subject to be comfortable with paying that much for one. I think I'll work on changing that...

 

[AndyL]

Yeah the commercial ones, aren't cheap... and even this thingomatic is making my head hurt. (Not making progress, trying to get it configured after owners hardware upgrades...).

when they work, damn are they handy - when your aligning things, adjusting belt tension and trying to figure out nozzle size, feed rates etc... they're enough to make you crazy...

fingers crossed, think she's dialed in - hopefully we have a few parts by morning

 

[elementip]

I've been fiddling with my reprap for months now, still have not been able to get a good print out of it. It's an endless series of adjustments and then trial and error.

I'm not giving up on it, but I've found it to be a very frustrating process.

 

[Ricoch3T]

I've wanted to try a CNC build one day but these 3d printers look interesting.. I just don't know what I would make after I got one working lol

 

[AndyL]

Takes. Lot of fine tuning with a reprap to get it working nice... this thingomatic is no different - plan is to get it up and running on the stock gear - then upgrade drives one at a time with acme screws and better bearings...

Functional not pretty parts... I wish I could get this girl to run on cura...

 

[mojo3120]

I've wanted to try a CNC build one day but these 3d printers look interesting.. I just don't know what I would make after I got one working lol

technically I'd consider a 3D printer a CNC.....but yea I think I'd prefer building a CNC mill or router over a plastic printer, just bc I'd have more uses for it

 

[mojo3120]

Takes. Lot of fine tuning with a reprap to get it working nice... this thingomatic is no different - plan is to get it up and running on the stock gear - then upgrade drives one at a time with acme screws and better bearings...

Functional not pretty parts... I wish I could get this girl to run on cura...

How strong/stiff do those parts end up being? Can you use different types of media in them?

 

[elementip]

How strong/stiff do those parts end up being? Can you use different types of media in them?

Some people have modified them to print with different materials. Mine uses ABS plastic to print, most parts are pretty tough, or about as tough as any other plastic part is in my experience so far..

One of the neatest things I have seen lately is using the plastic printed parts as patterns for sand-cast aluminum parts. I really want to try this.

 

[AndyL]

These ones are abs plastic, not pretty (still have a bunch of fine tuning of the extruded to do) but quite solid. You can see a big plastic clip for 1kg rolls of filament on that pic off the thingomatic - that was made from PLA

Handy for making replacement gears, knobs - all those little plastic parts that break). Only limited by imagination, I redid some bakeolite knobs last time I got my hands on one - other than weight when removed, you'd hardly know...

But I've already got a jgro router so this was next step before my laser

 

[mojo3120]

Some people have modified them to print with different materials. Mine uses ABS plastic to print, most parts are pretty tough, or about as tough as any other plastic part is in my experience so far.

I guess it has a lot to do with how the part's designed as well. Just curious how it compared to say an injection molded part.

One of the neatest things I have seen lately is using the plastic printed parts as patterns for sand-cast aluminum parts. I really want to try this.

that does sound cool. Post pics of the process if you try it

 

[AndyL]

Injection molded would be solid - which you can do, but these are only solid for the first 1/8" give or take

One of the guys at my hacker space is doing a chocolate printer - think wedding cake toppers... and other edible goodness... someone else is playing with UV cured epoxy...

 

[AndyL]

I've wanted to try a CNC build one day but these 3d printers look interesting.. I just don't know what I would make after I got one working lol

I found my first project after This ones up and running

3D printed lathe is pretty damn cool

Sources @ https://github.com/Intrinsically-Sublime/Printable-Lathe-V2

 

[SpeedyGee]

How's this build going ?

I've now got a Mendel Max, currently all stock build as I wanted to get to know the technology first. Will do some mods once I'm happy that I've got to know the beast

 

[03protege]

This is so cool, it's on my list after the cnc plasma, cnc mill, and cnc lathe.

 

[AndyL]

How's this build going ?

I've now got a Mendel Max, currently all stock build as I wanted to get to know the technology first. Will do some mods once I'm happy that I've got to know the beast

It went to my local hacker space - for assembly and upgrading.... its a nice design but mechanics are ... well reprap but stuffed into a tube to make them difficult to adjust/align.

Got a bunch of parts coming for a basic rostock,

 

[Rudifisk]

Hi all,

New guy here. Journeyman machinist, mechanical designer and mechanical engineer.

I have been surfing and reading about 3D printing for at least 3 years and it seems to be getting more exciting day by day.

I am interested in the Eventorbot as it seems like such a simple yet rigid design. Maybe even adaptable for CNC routing?

So who has built this and what are the results? Thanks.

Randy

 

[AndyL]

I'd stay away if it was me ;

Yes I built the frame for one - but... Yeah - perhaps read:
http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2013/11/25833-eventorbot-failed-kickstarter-stop-showing-up-door/

 

[Danglerb]

The idea is too good to let individual failures stop it. Many will try, some will fail, but eventually product will exist that is cheap and reliable from somebody.

 

[wmartin]

Could someone who has one of these devices give a quick summary of the consumables cost to build something of a reasonable size? That strikes me as the issue here if you aren't just prototyping.

 

[AndyL]

Www.repraper.com is one of the usual 'cheap' sources (read it ain't snap on - closer to sears than harbour freight for quality - Chinese but with ok quality control) see for yourself.

If I was building a new one today - it would be a delta rather than the typical xyz - little simpler mechanically (software does the harder part) and can be much faster

Some of the Rostock derivatives with carbon fiber (hobby shop sourced) links - can outrun any of the typical reprap style printers. Speed is king in this world...

 

[works4me]

Here's another 3D printer to add to the mix. It's a new design from 3DBotz. I just received it before the holidays. I'm still experimenting with it but so far it seems pretty consistent, if a bit rough around the edges (as they all are at this stage). The brackets and hardware is a step up from the standard RepRap fare, but the electronics & software is the same. It uses an H-bridge design for the X/Y motion, so both motors are fixed on the frame & drive the carriage via belts:

Amazingly my very first print actually worked:

I'm planning on upgrading it to dual extruder, adding an auto-height and slope adjustment using IR sensors, and experimenting with true color printing using a custom filament extruder and print head.

 

[Danglerb]

Cost?

Taking a guess consumables is NOT a big issue, unless you are in some kind of production environment, then initial purchase price isn't so much of an issue.

Knowing nothing myself, what seems appealing are useful part plastic types, or something like wax for lost wax casting in metal.

Has anyone come up with some form of two pass system, extruder passes mixed with router cutting passes?

 

[works4me]

This is a rapidly evolving field. There have been at least a couple of dozen new printers released by various tiny (and big) companies this year alone! They vary anywhere from $300-500 all the way to $2000-$3000. IMHO the really cheap preassembled ones are trying to push to "mass consumer" pricing too quickly. This is equivalent to the early days of the PC.

At this stage I think a reasonable price for an assembled machine is $1K-$2K, and a kit is $500-$1K. Anything cheaper than that is either too unreliable or the company making it will quickly go out of business. I'm also very inclined to stick with the open architecture systems rather than the proprietary ones since none of the companies appears to be great at tech support or debugging yet.

As far as materials, a 1kg spool of ABS/PLA cost about $40-$50. This is enough to print several small objects or a couple of big objects depending on how solid the object is. One way to cut down on the material cost is to buy a filament maker and "roll your own". This cuts the cost down to about $5 per 1kg. I purchased this one:

http://www.extrusionbot.net/

It is fairly well made, but I can't comment on how well it works yet since it was missing a critical set screw when I received it! I sent the company e-mail a week ago asking for a replacement, but haven't heard anything back yet. So I went ahead & ordered one myself from McMaster Carr. This is typical for this industry at this stage.

If you're going to live in the Wild West, you need to expect to get your hands a bit dirty

 

[AndyL]

Oh... don't forget - SLS has been appearing on the horizon with makerjuice now widely available...
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/117421627/the-peachy-printer-the-first-100-3d-printer-and-sc

 

[James_B]

I've had a Form Labs Form 1 for a couple of months (ordered and paid for in October 2012, delivered late September 2013).





Most of the desktop 3D printers that are on the market use plastic extrusion (FDM) technology and work by running plastic filaments through a heated deposition nozzle. The Form 1 printer is a far higher resolution stereolithography (SL) machine which uses a scanning LASER to activate and set acrylate photopolymer resin.

End result, higher resolution prints (25 micron layer density, 300 micron minimum feature size), but at a higher cost (the photopolymer is $149/litre + shipping and taxes).

Some early test prints









2 piece printed resin tank cleaning rake. The handle was glued into the head using the same photopolymer resin that was cured with a UV (blacklight) florescent tube.

 

[AndyL]

James: http://makerjuice.com/product-category/resins/

22$/L

Like I said - SLS will be the new standard soon - especially since one can knock the parts count way down in comparison to the typical extruders we use today...

I know a couple guys are playing with that peachy design now - its kick starter version is extremely simplistic and they've been able to radically improve performance jat with proper optics and lasers.

 

[Kevin54]

Don't have one but am trying to figure out if I can justify it or not.
I'm struggling to see if I can get a positive ROI if I purchase a Makerbot. There are a lot of designs I'd like to experiment with but I can't really justify it just yet. =(

It's just like when computers came out. Everyone tried to find a reason whether they could actually justify buying one or not. Now there is one in almost every household and most people can't do without one.

It will be the same thing with 3D printers, all except they are fairly decent now. It will only be a few years before they are as common as your computer and printer.

 

[James_B]

There's a lot of discussion on the Form Labs forum about alternate resins. People have been experimenting with all sorts of resin hybrid mixes.

Most people buy a spare resin tank (USD$69) for each different resin they use.

 

[James_B]

It's just like when computers came out. Everyone tried to find a reason whether they could actually justify buying one or not. Now there is one in almost every household and most people can't do without one.

It will be the same thing with 3D printers, all except they are fairly decent now. It will only be a few years before they are as common as your computer and printer.

I've been on the bleeding edge of personal computers since I was involved in the assembly of an Imsai 8080 in 1977. Got my first Z80 based computer in 1978.

My first pair of 5.25" floppy drives cost me close to AUD$500 each. I still needed to build the controller to interface them to my Z80 computer. That was another $500 for the PC board and components.

When I bought my first dot matrix printer back in the early 80s (C.Itoh 8510) it cost me AUD$1300. Was still fully functional when I dumped it in 2008 when I was preparing to move to Canada.

Similarly, the 42MB Hard Drive (MiniScribe 3650) cost me close to AUD$900 with the needed XT controller card, and my first generation Microsoft Mouse cost me close to AUD$350.

Until the stuff becomes a mass market item, the price will be incredibly high, but it does mean that you have a head start on the technology. My computer experience gave me many years head start in the technology compared to the people I worked with, and I became indispensable as we started to install microprocessor based equipment.

 

[AndyL]

Ok... I gotta say it... I had a buddy of mine start printing one of these out for me. Now this is closer to where 3D printing should go...

Called the "Gus Simpson" http://reprap.org/wiki/GUS_Simpson - A grounded base Delta.

Much simpler design (less simple on the software end - currently hacked, so you use the standard slicers - then process again before printing to handle the offsets from the mechanical layout. I hear there should be true firmware support in the next few months)

 

[nicksnothereman]

So who has the fun toys here?

Started building an eventorbot this weekend, was debating between a reprap vs Fab@home vs... well the list gets long... this one finally peaked my interest.

http://reprap.org/wiki/Eventorbot

Of course, can't build anything to plan so we stretched x/z a wee bit (6") and had 3" tube hanging around, and 2.5" would have required shopping... and those printed legs - well why print when I have the tube and welder out anyway...

Still going to run the basic design, but eyeballing up dual extruders, and have a feeling I'm shopping for 12mm rod, instead of the 8mm due to axis length... and that redirod/allthread will get dumped for acme...

Gotta order some electronics still, I really want r2c2 - but not at that price... and I don't like this single source scenario...

Anyone else working on the 3D printer scenario?

Let me know when you can print out a woman that knows how to cook...

 

[AndyL]

I think Gary and Wyatt sorted that out circa 1985