4 ft florescent lights

[henrysgarage]

I heard the soon we will not be able to buy 4ft florescent tubes. Anyone hear this? Merry Christmas.

 

[v8garage]

T12 Flourescent tubes will no longer be manufactured after July 2013. T8 and T5 bulbs will replace them. If you want to keep your same fixture your ballast may need to be replaced with a compatible one depending on the application.
V/8

 

[porphyre]

T12 Flourescent tubes will no longer be manufactured after July 2013. T8 and T5 bulbs will replace them. If you want to keep your same fixture your ballast may need to be replaced with a compatible one depending on the application.
V/8

Hey, that's the first time I've seen solid info! Do you have a link to a press release or anything?

 

[D KRAGER]

T12 Flourescent tubes will no longer be manufactured after July 2013. T8 and T5 bulbs will replace them. If you want to keep your same fixture your ballast may need to be replaced with a compatible one depending on the application.
V/8

I've read even as early as July 2012.


I have several fixtures that are still T-12. I got them all for free though a few years back. I knew this was gonna happen. My wife works at an electrical supply house, so I can new t-8 get replacement ballasts for about $17. So it's only $17 plus bulbs.

It's fairly easy to change the ballasts, just follow a wiring diagram. Old 4 bulb t-12's have 2 ballasts. Then new t-8s only take one. The pin-out on a T-12 and T-8 are the same so you don't have to change the bulb holders (tombstones).

 

[D KRAGER]

http://o.b5z.net/i/u/10069179/f/DOE_Lamp_Phase_Out_Timeline.pdf

Link for a timeline for the phaseout.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I still have some T12 fixtures but I put many new T8 fixtures in when I refurbed last year. I was planning for the "future."

 

[Chris Adams]

I went t8 in the new shop. Still have the old T12's in the garage.
I will not miss the T12's.

They ****.

In the new shop I have 14 double fixtures. No radio static. No flicker. I've lost one transformer (replaced free) in two years. No T8 bulbs. Got a case (30) of spares when I setup, never needed to open it.
That's with cheap 10 buck fixtures from WalMart.
The expensive T12's in the garage buzz, flicker, stall, go bad, etc.

For once, the new stuff is better.

 

[John in OH]

I've got a ton of 4' T12 fixtures in various buildings and used as task lighting in other locations although my new workshop will have T8s. So I guess I'll have to either load up on spare 4' T12s or start replacing T12 ballasts with T8 ballasts.

Are the T8 ballasts the same size as the older T12 ballasts? Any trick to replacement or is it a simple rewire?

 

[Hawk]

"Are the T8 ballasts the same size as the older T12 ballasts? Any trick to replacement or is it a simple rewire?[/QUOTE]

Ballast are the same size, Just wire the red to red, yellow to yellow, and blue to blue. Real simple

 

[SuperSocket]

Just get LED retrofits and dump the entire ballast... problem solved and you get better efficiency plus you don't have to replace bad bulbs in years

 

[Falcon67]

"Are the T8 ballasts the same size as the older T12 ballasts? Any trick to replacement or is it a simple rewire?

Ballast are the same size, Just wire the red to red, yellow to yellow, and blue to blue. Real simple[/QUOTE]

The electronic T8 ballasts I have bought are way thinner and lighter than the older mag T-12 ballasts and the wiring is different. Wiring is actually simpler with the T8 ballast, especially on a 4 bulb. Depends on the ballast. Next time you're in one of the stores, grab one and look - the wiring diagram is on the top.

 

[Nick DL]

Just get LED retrofits and dump the entire ballast... problem solved and you get better efficiency plus you don't have to replace bad bulbs in years

From what I am finding, they are real expensive to make the switch. I saw one site that was selling one 4 foot bulb for $88! Meanwhile, what does it cost to replace a ballast? I think the last time I replaced a ballast it cost me under $20. I'll pass on LED for now until it is more cost friendly.

 

[Copytech]

I bought some cheap t8 fixtures and bulbs from Lowes and swapped the internals with my existing flush mount fixtures. I didn't even have to cut a wire as even the sockets are the same.
The fixtures and bulbs were cheaper than just replacing the ballast alone.

 

[mmb617]

I didn't know about this. Between the house, the garage and the gym I have something like 8 four bulb and 12 two bulb T12 fixtures. Guess I'll have to stock up on bulbs and then start switching the fixtures out little by little.

I just love it when our government pulls **** like this.

 

[bad_idea]

I just love it when our government pulls **** like this.

Meanwhile China doesn't give two shits and makes plenty of money doing it....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_of_China

 

[djjsr]

The phase out of T12 bulbs and magnetic ballasts started in July of 2005.

 

[PatJ800]

Old 4 bulb t-12's have 2 ballasts. Then new t-8s only take one.

Both T-12 and T-8 ballasts are and have been available in 1, 2, 3, and 4 tubes per ballast.

The pin-out on a T-12 and T-8 are the same so you don't have to change the bulb holders (tombstones).

The pin out is the same for T-8 and T-12 only if you are going like for like. If your T-12 are rapid start then it is very likely you have the correct tombstones and can convert to T-8 with just a ballast change. If your T-12 are instant start (one pin on each end of lamp) they will not have the correct tombstones and they will need to be changed along with the ballast to convert to T-8.

It is possible though less common for you to have rapid start style T-12 lamps (with two pins on each end of the tube) wired to an instant start ballast. If that is the case your tombstones are probably shunted and you will need to either switch tombstones or go with an instant start T-8 ballast to work with your shunted tombstones.

If your current T-12 are preheat start then you have the correct tombstones for a T-8 conversion also.

The expensive T12's in the garage buzz, flicker, stall, go bad, etc.

For once, the new stuff is better.

You had magnetic ballasts and you are right, they ****. Magnetic ballasts **** equally weather they are for T-8 or T-12 though.

Ballast are the same size, Just wire the red to red, yellow to yellow, and blue to blue. Real simple

Newer ballasts are almost always much smaller but are the same length so they fit in the same old mount as the old ballasts. A modern program start ballast will fit in the same slot as a 60 year old magnetic preheat start. If you are going from rapid start T-12 to either rapid start or program start T-8 then they wire up the same.

The electronic T8 ballasts I have bought are way thinner and lighter than the older mag T-12 ballasts and the wiring is different. Wiring is actually simpler with the T8 ballast

You are correct on size, but the reason you thought the wiring is simpler is probably because you went from rapid start T-12 to instant start T-8. If you went from rapid start to rapid start (or program start) then the wiring is identical.

Personally I would not use instant start for anything residential at all. They are by far the most efficient once they are on but they are extremely hard on the lamps when they are turned on. They are designed for hospital hallways and elevator cars and other lamp applications that are never turned off. They fire the cathodes of the lamp cold which is dramatically shortens their life each time they are turned off/on. They are also the least expensive T-8 ballast so unfortunately they are used in less expensive luminaries and sold at places like Lowes.

A lamp running an instant start ballast will handle at most one tenth of the start/stop cycles of the identical lamp on a rapid start or program start ballast. In a residential or home workshop application you will kill the lamp with start stop cycles way way before you exhaust its cathodes on hours used. But instant start ballasts are cheaper and simpler to wire so that is what you get in cheap Chinese Lowe's luminaries and cheap aftermarket ballasts.

If I had a shop full of 4' T-12 luminaries (aka light fixtures) here is what I would do: I would open the luminarie and look at the lampholders (aka tombstones.) If there were two wires coming from each tombstone then I am OK and they will work for a T-8 swap. If there is only one wire per then the tombstone is probably shunted and needs replaced. I would go to the local electrical supply house (NOT Lowes or Home Depot, go where the electrical contractor trucks are parked during the weekdays, or look in the phone book.) If you only had one wire per tombstone then you need to buy X number of "rapid start tombstones" (figure $1-$2/ea.) You need to buy T-8 ballasts and you want "program start." Rapid start may be couple bucks cheaper but you will earn it back with how much longer your lamps last with a program start. You can buy a single ballast for each luminarie weather it is 4 tube or 2 tube. Depending on the supply house you go to you want one from the three major brands of ballasts: GE, Advance (aka Philips), or Sylvania/OSRAM. Price will depend on who you are and how much they like you. Your supply house is paying right around $10 for a good brand 2-tube program start ballast and maybe $13 for a 4-tube. So if they like you then you may get one for $20. Joe off the street may pay $30 each.

If you do all that and get a good brand name program start T-8 ballast and rapid start tombstones to convert then you will end up with a real commercial grade luminarie which will blow anything Lowe's sells out of the water. The T-8 strip lights you see at places like Lowe's is cheap Chinese instant-start **** even if it is "cheaper." Even if a good brand name PS ballast is $40 each, you can't buy a new strip light anywhere close to that quality for less than $80++ and definitely not from Lowes. All there is to one of those luminaries is the ballast, the tombstones, and the tin housing.

Sorry for my rambling first post. There is just a lot of misinformation on the internet about this whole T-12 to T-8 thing.

 

[38Chevy454]

PatJ800, nice first post with info. There is a lot of misinformation out there.

 

[Falcon67]

PatJ800 hit that one out of the park. Here's my 1/50th of a buck - I have been buying the cheap-azz T8 fixtures from Lowes for a while. In general, I have had really good luck with them. Since I use them in the shop, there is not a lot of on/off and when on they stay that way for a long while. I like to wire in lots of switching so that I can light just enough to not trip over a race car or all the way to growing corn indoors. I have lost a couple of ballasts and simply replaced those with Advance units that cost about $15. So if you figure $40 for an 8' fixture plus a ballast, you're still $25 under that $80 commercial unit. I had T8s in the old shop for over 5 years and did not have to replace any tubes. But I did note that some were burning on the ends when we moved out. Like Copytech said - the real cheap way to upgrade a 4' T-12 fixture is to buy a $18 Utilitech shop light from Lowes and swap over the parts. If the tombstones are the right kind, you can buy just a ballast and get there quick. The Utilitech units are actually decent pieces and easy to service.

Also - buy the bulbs in 12 or 30 packs and they come in between $1.50 and 2.75 each. My 6500K Sylvania comes in a 12 and works out to $2.75 each.

 

[Chris Adams]

Lots of good info in PatJ800's post, that is for sure.

Thing is, I can't understand the economics of the ballast replacement.

Bulbs cost about a buck each locally, in 30 packs of t8. Not the best/brightest, but fine for shop use.
While Lowe's and Home Depot sell a rather crappy light fixture for 40 bucks, WalMart sells a cheap one for 10 bucks. That's 10 plus 2 or 12 bucks plus tax for a fixture and bulbs.

They are obviously instant start, thus 'shorter bulb life' if started a lot.
My records show I've started each of the 14 fixtures in the shop roughly 1200 times. I'm a compulsive light switcher. If I'm in, the lights are on. If I'm out, they are off.
Since they are on three main switches, sometimes I use one side only, other times the center or far side.
Mostly all three on.
Ambient temperatures at the fixtures vary from roughly 30 to 140+ F.
So in two years no bulb failures. None. One ballast. Exchanged at no cost. That's on an average cost per unit of 12 dollars.

Where would I save actual coin by using 'better' fixtures or bulbs?

Not theoretic bucks, but real savings.
That is, spend less money.
My net on my lights is way under 200 bucks for 2000 hours of lighting including 1200 starts.
Honestly, how could it get cheaper???

If I was paying an electrician to change fixtures, bulbs or even to 'maintain' them I could see going high end, I guess.

 

[Al Bundy]

So do I stock up on T12 bulbs or do I throw away the 12 fixtures in my garage and replace them with new ones? They only cost me $8 a piece at Bloews. But I hate to throw away $100 for no reason. Oh that's right, it's what's best for me. I'm sure I'll recover it through my energy savings over the course of 15 or 20 years.

 

[Falcon67]

In the old shop, I replaced all the T12s with T8s. 12 each 4' dual bulb shop light fixtures. Power draw went down a real measured 30% on those light circuits. So payback is a while, but there is payback.

 

[rlitman]

I'd replace the fixtures. T8 is so much better.
Payback isn't just in power savings. They work in the cold, there's no buzzing or flicker, and the bulbs last longer too. They're even a little brighter.

 

[c39er]

I just bought 75 (5 cases) of T12 HO bulbs for my shop. The 18 2 bulb fixtures are from a Safeway and have I have never lost a ballast in 15 years. Keeping my fingers crossed! No radio noise either. I burn out about 4-6 bulbs a year so I figure this amount of bulbs will take care of burned out bulbs for at least the next 10 years-by then I'll probably live somewhere else and downsize to a smaller shop.
I don't want any Chinese fungulee fixtures in my shop.

 

[mmb617]

Let's see here, I'm going to crunch the numbers. I have 10 obsolete T12 fixtures in my garage. I only work out there on the weekends so I'm going to say I average 20 hours a week with the lights on, which is on the high side I'm sure as in the summer with the doors open I usually don't even have the lights on. So at 20 hours/week I'd run the lights 1040 hours/year.

My old inefficient T12's use 34 watts/bulb or 680 watts total for 2 bulbs each in the 10 fixtures. The new high efficiency T8's only use 32 watts/bulb or 640 watts total. So I'd save 40 watts by switching the entire garage over.

So every hour I run the lights I'd save 40 watts. I pay $0.07 per kilowatt/hour for my electricity so every hour I'd save $ 0.0028 which over my 1040 hour year would amount to $2.91.

Even if I buy the cheap $10 fixtures at Walmart, I need 10 so there's $100. But I also need to buy T8 bulbs, 20 of them. the cheapest I see them is about $1.50 each if bought in bulk, so another $30 for bulbs, a total changeover cost of $130.

Divide that $130 by the $2.91 I save each year and I'm at break even in only 44.7 years. Wow I'm thrilled! Of course since I'm 60 years old there is very little chance I'll live long enough to reach that break even point but maybe my son will see it.

Thanks, Uncle Sam!

 

[c39er]

Yep, I guess thats why I'll keep going with what I got-old high quality long lasting USA made fixtures- I'm 59 and I agree with mmb67!

 

[Falcon67]

Good numbers - except the T8 regulars burn around 28W in spite of the "32W" rating. We pay 11.5 kWh.

I went to T8 because they light bright in a cold shop. Also, the electric ballasts run cooler. Not so much for the power. I just like 'em. pikced up half for the new shop tonight - $250 worth

 

[pattenp]

T12 Flourescent tubes will no longer be manufactured after July 2013. T8 and T5 bulbs will replace them. If you want to keep your same fixture your ballast may need to be replaced with a compatible one depending on the application.
V/8

Where in the world did you get this information? Read the document in the below link.
http://assets.sylvania.com/assets/Documents/LEGIS01 11-2010.472d682c-6357-4513-8986-2e5952be2148.pdf

 

[58Yeoman]

I know...drag up an old post. I've been buying up T12 bulbs new in the box at garage/estate sales for a couple bucks a box. I've got over a dozen lights that I removed from the old house/shop when I left there, so I've also got a good supply of lights/ballasts when the current ones die.

 

[Kevin54]

The phasing out of the T12 for commercial is and will be done. For Residential applications you will still be able to buy T12

One thing you may want to do is check with your local electric company to see what kind of incentives they are offering and ask them when the deadline is for the incentives to end.