4 Point Sockets

[Kevs02Accord]

Hey guys, I am having no luck getting these plugs off my air compressor. I have tried almost everything but was hoping I could find a 4 point socket to fit on my impact gun. I need 1-1/4 socket size, with preferably a 1/2 drive, but really drive size doesn't matter because I can always buy an adapter. I have found a few 8 points, problem is the corners are torn to hell and I think the 4 point hitting the sides would give it a lot more grip. I will update with pictures but the plug is getting pretty bad. If you know where I can buy one great, or let me borrow one, I just need to get these damn plugs off.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

Have you used Kroil or similar first? If you've boogered up the corners on a pipe plug you have been doing things very wrong.

It may be time for the blue wrench (torch).

 

[2oolhound]

Get a grinder with a zip disc and cut it down to a 1" with square corners.

You can make a 4 point socket with flat bar and a welder. Just weld an old socket on the back for the 1/2 drive or drill a hole through the sides for a tommy bar.

 

[2oolhound]

^^^ As long as there is room to turn the plug with a welded handle, but yeah, weld an old socket to the plug. lots of ways to skin a cat.

 

[Kevs02Accord]

Have you used Kroil or similar first? If you've boogered up the corners on a pipe plug you have been doing things very wrong.

It may be time for the blue wrench (torch).

Yup, used PB plaster multiple times and I used the torch multiple times, in multiple locations.

Get a grinder with a zip disc and cut it down to a 1" with square corners.

You can make a 4 point socket with flat bar and a welder. Just weld an old socket on the back for the 1/2 drive or drill a hole through the sides for a tommy bar.

Those are some really good ideas, I never would have though to cut it down to a 1 inch and the use a 4 point socket.

Or weld a bar or socket directly to the plug.
You need a new plug anyway.
A socket isn't needed if you're **** canning the plug.
And the heat might do it some good.

Or grind the thing down to one inch if you don't have welder access.
Or cut a slot on one corner and air chisel it around, not off, around, and unthread it.
Or cut the slot and bfh it off.

I dont have access to a welder but I could try cutting a grove into it and using my air chisel. How should I be applying the air chisel, like down and at an angle?

^^^ As long as there is room to turn the plug with a welded handle, but yeah, weld an old socket to the plug. lots of ways to skin a cat.

What about drilling and using a saws all?

 

[bob15]

Is the plug 1.25" on each flat? I agree spay the threads with kroil or tri-flow. Try a good pipe wrench. If it has good teeth, they are awesome for removal of things as tthe more force you put on it, the tighter it grips.

Snap On has square sockets up to 1 1/8": http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=all&Group_ID=674985&store=snapon-store

Wright 4 point sockets: http://www.royalsupply.com/store/pc/Wright-Tool-4340-1-1-4-1-2-Drive-Special-8-Pt-Square-Standard-Sockets-p50666.htm

 

[Kevs02Accord]

About a thirty degree angle counterclockwise.
Cut a nice big groove for the chisel to get a bite on.
The object isn't to knock the corner off, it's to use the chisel to get it to turn.

Ok, thats kind of what I was thinking. How optimistic are you that will work when a 5ft cheater bar didnt?

Is the plug 1.25" on each flat? I agree spay the threads with kroil or tri-flow. Try a good pipe wrench. If it has good teeth, they are awesome for removal of things as tthe more force you put on it, the tighter it grips.

Snap On has square sockets up to 1 1/8": http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=all&Group_ID=674985&store=snapon-store

Wright 4 point sockets: http://www.royalsupply.com/store/pc/Wright-Tool-4340-1-1-4-1-2-Drive-Special-8-Pt-Square-Standard-Sockets-p50666.htm

Yes, 1.25 in on both sides. Is the Kroil any different than PB Blaster? Thanks for the links, that wright socket, or something like it might be a good option, then I could try my impact. My biggest concern with the 8 pt is that the plug is already missing 2 corners.

See attached pics of the plug, and the bent pipe wrench.

Just had an idea about using a left handed tap to get another hex head bolt in there and then hit it with the impact wrench, any thoughts?

 

[2oolhound]

It looks like it's rusted right in there. I've never tried vinegar for something like this but I have used it on rusty tools etc and it really eats rust. Mind you that is soaking the item in a vinegar tray so I don't know if you can keep feeding vinegar at that long enough to get it to work (it takes a few hours). After vinegar or a penetrating fluid I'd give it some heat then a few good whacks with a hammer while standing on the pipe wrench.

 

[Olafur]

1/2" impact is not going to move this thing.
Lots of heat and BFH are what you need.

 

[littletoes]

I've removed dozens of those....either buy a "plug socket", and get it out, or knock the center out, saw it in three spots with a sawzall, and knock, or let the pieces fall out...careful not to cut into the threads....you can "knock" 'em out with a chisel and hammer.

Some of you guys get too complicated for me......

 

[kctyphoon]

<--- also curious why it needs to be removed.. also - this MIGHT be a stupid question, but cant you just get a 1 1/4" open end wrench for $20 and a 5' pipe after letting the torch heat that thing up?? if not propane then maybe some Map gas if this is that important to you.. at least you can always use the map gas torch to solder pipes later on..

 

[Jlbc212]

<--- also curious why it needs to be removed.. also - this MIGHT be a stupid question, but cant you just get a 1 1/4" open end wrench for $20 and a 5' pipe after letting the torch heat that thing up?? if not propane then maybe some Map gas if this is that important to you.. at least you can always use the map gas torch to solder pipes later on..

^^^ or a larger pipe wrench or spud wrench with the 5' or longer pipe. Use some PB nut blaster or Kroil. Heat up the plug, spray it, let it cool, heat it up again, spray it again, let it cool. Heat it up again and attack it with the wrench and the long pipe.

 

[Bondo]

<--- also curious why it needs to be removed.. also - this MIGHT be a stupid question, but cant you just get a 1 1/4" open end wrench for $20 and a 5' pipe after letting the torch heat that thing up?? if not propane then maybe some Map gas if this is that important to you.. at least you can always use the map gas torch to solder pipes later on..

Ayuh,.... O/Ac would be best, but heat the plug with all the heat ya can, then Quench it with water,....

It'll cause it to shrink, 'n break the rust bond,...

It oughta screw out after ya reoil it,....

 

[Kevs02Accord]

I should have asked before:
Why do you want to take it out?

Initially I wanted to get a look at the inside and make sure the tank was still useable, not overly rusted. Now I want them out because they are all messed up, look like **** and are ******* me off.

<--- also curious why it needs to be removed.. also - this MIGHT be a stupid question, but cant you just get a 1 1/4" open end wrench for $20 and a 5' pipe after letting the torch heat that thing up?? if not propane then maybe some Map gas if this is that important to you.. at least you can always use the map gas torch to solder pipes later on..

Do you think the open end wrench would withstand all the force when the pipe wrench bent from it?

Ayuh,.... O/Ac would be best, but heat the plug with all the heat ya can, then Quench it with water,....

It'll cause it to shrink, 'n break the rust bond,...

It oughta screw out after ya reoil it,....

My neighbors dad is going going to bring his acetylene torch, large open / crescent and maybe square sockets if he has them. I think I am going to see if I can find any sockets and then try the heat, oil, hammer regimen. I think in my mind if none of this works I am going to drill and cut them out.

 

[bob15]

Get a bigger pipe wrench (24") and a bigger piece of pipe. Fourteen inch is too small for that job, even with a cheater.

 

[Jere]

The o/a rig will get the plug out but it can mess up the threads too.They might still work when all is said and done but chances for leaks is higher

I would use the propane and clamp the bottle aimed at the plug so you could do something else in the garage while it heats up for a while. Spray it down when red hot so the oil soaks in better.

 

[littletoes]

Like I said earlier...I've done dozens of these...and never needed to heat a single one. Yet nobody pays attention to my earlier post.....smart.

 

[Olafur]

Like I said earlier...I've done dozens of these...and never needed to heat a single one. Yet nobody pays attention to my earlier post.....smart.

I am not familiar with the details of said plug but judging by your advice the bottom is rather weak so it is easy to brake the square off with chisel?

 

[littletoes]

There are two types, internal plug, or external. Most of the external plugs are "hollow", and yes, very east to knock off with a chisel and hammer, then you saw to the outside from the inside, just not to the threads. Then take the same chisel, and knock them to the inside. You can do both of these in about three hits with a double-jack and a big chisel.

Most times its fairly east even if the plug is solid. If you try and saw the solid type off, it can be a lot of work. Either way, just drill it out with a big enough drill bit that will allow you to get a blade in there, and saw. It's cast, most of the time malleable cast, which means its soft and will drill right out. Then repeat the sawing.

Either way, it's quicker than you would think....or maybe I've just done too many.

 

[Olafur]

There are two types, internal plug, or external. Most of the external plugs are "hollow", and yes, very east to knock off with a chisel and hammer, then you saw to the outside from the inside, just not to the threads. Then take the same chisel, and knock them to the inside. You can do both of these in about three hits with a double-jack and a big chisel.

Most times its fairly east even if the plug is solid. If you try and saw the solid type off, it can be a lot of work. Either way, just drill it out with a big enough drill bit that will allow you to get a blade in there, and saw. It's cast, most of the time malleable cast, which means its soft and will drill right out. Then repeat the sawing.

Either way, it's quicker than you would think....or maybe I've just done too many.

I just saw the size of the threads and the already deformed square - my solution to this, out of habbit is oxy,acy torch and or welder.

But when you mention it, these plugs are pretty weak so I think you have the solution the OP is looking for. As a bonus he will not destroy the paint around the plug with fire ..

 

[404]

A lot of freeze spray on the plug. It will shrink and release. In the old days would use liquid freon since it was real cheap. Now a days liquid propane is cheap-ish but there is that possibility of fire downside. Liquid nitrogen is available from some welding supply places as well.

 

[kctyphoon]

Do you think the open end wrench would withstand all the force when the pipe wrench bent from it?

maybe - maybe not, but its a cheap investment on a wrench that has a lifetime warranty if you get it from advanced auto or something similar.. im assuming you have another plug to replace this with. personally - i like to try the least destructive things first. although i have never had to remove a plug like this, but thats how i do anything. a slip with a saw can do alot more damage than a torch and a wrench IMO. depending what your capable of doing with what you have - if you honestly feel the wrench and heat is a waste then resort to a drill and saw.. just go slow and be careful. if you try a torch just remember that it takes a while for the heat to do anything - not like your just gonna leave it on there for 10 seconds, esp with propane. i usually have to count to like 30 just to solder copper pipes, so plan on leaving the torch on there for a few minutes at least..

 

[nicksmurf111]

I've got an old 3 foot pipe wrench for things like that, and would like to get a 4 footer soon. I'd be worried about breaking the plug though. I'm sure a little low heat (propane or MAP) to expand the tank around the plug can't hurt.

 

[Jere]

Like I said earlier...I've done dozens of these...and never needed to heat a single one. Yet nobody pays attention to my earlier post.....smart.

Breaking a part and possibly making a mess inside an un cleanable air tank ,marring threads is a less than ideal solution a last resort and a pita. And really there is no right answer just different compromises. Heating is cheap easy clean and it leaves a potentially reusable part. Maybe you should try having an open mind you might find a better way you haven't tried

 

[MacMcMacmac]

The last time I had to pull a plug like this, I put on a proper sized 12 point slug wrench and nailed it with a 10 lb sledgehammer. If the missing corners preclude this, I would go with the drill and cut method. I wonder if you could bore out the plug far enough to weld a bead around the inner circumference like you do when removing blind bearing races? It works a treat for that.

 

[sam.coll]

Id be very careful about welding or heating on that tank it is a pressure vessel after all...

 

[Kevs02Accord]

Hey guys lots of good suggestions. I haven't worked on it since before the weekend, it was just ******* me off. I am still waiting to get my neighbors ox/ac torch. I tried getting one of the smaller plugs off, in hopes to get some PB blaster on the back side of the plug, no luck. The open end wrench kept slipping off and the manual impact didn't do anything but round the corners.

 

[ClineWrench]

If you heat the plug, the heat expands the plug serving only to make it tighter. What you want to do is heat the area outside the plug that you want to expand and you may have better results.

My 2 cents - comes with unique experience of this very issue.

 

[Art From De Leon]

Heat the plug and let it cool.

 

[Kevs02Accord]

Heat the plug and let it cool.

Are we talking red hot? I haven't gone that far but I have had propane heat on the plugs for 2-3 minutes and on other occasions heated around the plug for 2-3 minutes.

 

[Jere]

Are we talking red hot? I haven't gone that far but I have had propane heat on the plugs for 2-3 minutes and on other occasions heated around the plug for 2-3 minutes.

For small stuff 2 or 3 minutes is good but for big stuff you should give it some more time. The heat is constantly being displaced by the surrounding metal, like a radiator in a car. Try 10-15 minutes and if that doesn't do it keep increasing the times. I don't think it will get red hot with propane in that amount of time.

 

[Kevs02Accord]

Ok, I'll give the heat longer. The plug is 2.5" diameter.

 

[Kevs02Accord]

Another update, no luck with anything so far. The corners were pretty much gone so I drilled a hole through the plug and put a bolt in the middle and pried / hammered on that, just bent the bolt. Then I cut a notch and used the chisel, just broke more off. I did get some Kroil and used more heat / air hammer, I thought while I was heating it I noticed something bubbling from behind the threads, not sure though. To be honest I think I knew I would need to drill it out. My biggest concern now is I am going to cut into the threads and or get a large piece stuck in the tank. I was going to do as suggested, drill a hole, saw as close to the threads as possible then use chisel / hammer to collapse the piece in, and hopefully pull it out. Any nuances to doing this?

 

[Rico.]

Forgive the stupid question.....

But there isn't any chance this fastener has a left hand thread is there..?

 

[dovco]

Air hammer
Pointy tip
Start perpendicular to the surface and make a divot. Then angle it about 30 degrees (mentioned above, I think) so that it turns the plug in a CCW direction.

Or, get a bore scope if you must see inside and use it through another hole. Cut/grind off the square part of the plug and be assured that it will not back itself out over time.

 

[dovco]

Forgive the stupid question.....

But there isn't any chance this fastener has a left hand thread is there..?

Very, extremely, positively unlikely.
No.

 

[dovco]

Good spot for divot, pic 1.

Or, maybe use a cutoff wheel and cut a 1/4" or so slot in the square and use a piece of flat bar to help, pic 2.

 

[Coach James]

No help to the OP, but I have to ask. What is "Ayuh"?

Coach

 

[bigfunwmu]

No help to the OP, but I have to ask. What is "Ayuh"?

Coach

Talking Yankee

 

[Bondo]

Talking Yankee

Ayuh,.... That's Downeast Maineiac Yankee,...