4 way switch?

[6togo]

I need some assistance with a 4 way switch setup. I have a current 3 way switch in my house to my first detached garage for the outside lights. I want to make it a 4 way by adding another switch to my second garage which is doable however I have additional lights on the second garage I want to add on as well which has got me stumped. I did run a 3 wire in conduit to the second garage from the first and all the lights will still be powered from the house. Is there a way to do this?

 

[starquestMM]

I'm thinking it would take a 4 wire run to the second garage for it to work, but maybe someone more expert will chime in.

 

[Zeke]

Adding more fixtures has nothing to do with the basic wiring requirements. Just have your switched hots come to the switch boxes so you can run a light circuit from a box and not have only a switch leg there. That way it doesn't matter if the lights are in between switches or on the far end.

BTW, if you have 2 fixtures between a pair of 3-way switches, you need four wires plus ground between the two fixtures. If the power is run only between switches then you can wire out of the switch box to any number of lights with a 2 wire plus ground cable.

 

[6togo]

So I currently have box#1 12/2 power and 12/3 jumping to box#2 that has the 12/2 feeding the lights. I added box #3 150' away and ran 12/3 wire to it. So I can add a 3rd switch to run the existing lights but the new garage lights go where? Do I need a additional 12/2 wire to run back to the existing lights? Yes I know it's 12 wire for a few lights but it was already here.

 

[Max]

This may help as it shows a lot of variants:

4 Way Switch Wiring Diagrams - Do-it-yourself-help.com

Clear, easy-to-read 4 way switch wiring diagrams for household light circuits with wiring instructions.

www.do-it-yourself-help.com

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I need some assistance with a 4 way switch setup. I have a current 3 way switch in my house to my first detached garage for the outside lights. I want to make it a 4 way by adding another switch to my second garage which is doable however I have additional lights on the second garage I want to add on as well which has got me stumped. I did run a 3 wire in conduit to the second garage from the first and all the lights will still be powered from the house. Is there a way to do this?

a 4-way switch can only go in between 2x 3-ways as the 4-way switches the travelers between the 2x 3-ways. so you need 4-wires plus ground going to the 4-way switch not 3....

Powering the lights on the garages, from the house, is a code violation. the lights on the first garage need to be powered by the service in the garage. the lights on the second garage need to be powered by the service in the second garage. so you cannot do what you want to do with the current setup you have and you should fix the code violation.

only way around this is with wireless controls....

Code also requires a neutral at each switch location with some exceptions....

 

[6togo]

The existing lights may be powered from the garage panel I didn't pull the switches to confirm I just assumed. Both house panel and garage panel are next to the switches and less than 10' apart. I just wanted to be able to light the new garage with the old one being it's a distance away and dark down there.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The existing lights may be powered from the garage panel I didn't pull the switches to confirm I just assumed. Both house panel and garage panel are next to the switches and less than 10' apart. I just wanted to be able to light the new garage with the old one being it's a distance away and dark down there.

if the 1st garage lights are powered by the 1st garage panel then you are ok. but lights on the 2nd garage need to be powered by the second garage so.... only way to do this is with wireless switches or lighting contactors.

 

[sparky 1971]

^^^This ^^^

Or just make them dusk to dawn lights and forget about it.

 

[nadogail]

4 way switches are Double Pole switches, their purpose is to “Flop the Travelers”

 

[slimpickins]

4 way switches are Double Pole switches, their purpose is to “Flop the Travelers”

There are double pole switches and there are 4 way switches. A double pole swich is typically used to switch both hots for a 240V load. It is two single pole switches in one.
A 4 way "flops the travelers" as @nadogail said.
They also look superficially identical but are not interchangeable.
If you go to your local big box store and ask for a double pole switch, it will likely not be a 4 way. You have to be sure you get a 4 way, not a double pole as many of the people that work in those departments won't know the difference either.

 

[6togo]

I get how the 4 way switch works it was the end 3 way switches with the issues. How about I run a separate 3 way for the new garage powered by it with the power and light fixtures at the garage switch and send another switch to either the old garage or house? Would that be compliant? It would still give me the ability to turn them on before I walk down.

 

[mike93lx]

You need the lights on the new garage to be powered from that garage. So a separate switch put wherever you want. You cannot have the lights for two buildings on a single switch.

Proximity is irrelevant. If the buildings are separate, the power is separate

 

[6togo]

Yes it would be powered by the same garage the lights are on. It would just have a second switch at the house.

 

[Innovate1]

To get around the issue with powering lights from the other building you could go to some sort of smart switch - either power line signaling or radio. Or perhaps a relay in the one building with the coil hooked to a signal from the other building - not totally sure if that avoids the building interconnection issue but the coil voltage could even be low voltage. That opens up lots of variations that would do what you want.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

4 way switches are Double Pole switches, their purpose is to “Flop the Travelers”

They’re double pole double throw switches. Which is different than a double pole switch

 

[nadogail]

4 way switches are Double Pole switches, their purpose is to “Flop the Travelers”

My error, I should have written they are Double Pole Double Throw switches.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yes it would be powered by the same garage the lights are on. It would just have a second switch at the house.

As long as they are powered by the building theyre in that is fine.

you will not be able to power the second garage lights from the first garage like you originally wanted. This means you need to set up a separate three-way/four-way switching circuit for the second garage between the buildings/house.

 

[6togo]

As long as they are powered by the building theyre in that is fine.

you will not be able to power the second garage lights from the first garage like you originally wanted. This means you need to set up a separate three-way/four-way switching circuit for the second garage between the buildings/house.

Correct I'm axing the 4 way and just doing a 3 way setup. I'm using the single 12/3 wire I ran to dead end at the house switch no power or fixture on that end.

 

[nadogail]

Do you mean 12 gauge 3 conductor Cable? Or are you running individual wires?

 

[6togo]

I ran 4 pieces of 12 awg solid core wire in conduit to make 12/3.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I ran 4 pieces of 12 awg solid core wire in conduit to make 12/3.

what colors did you use?

 

[6togo]

Black, white, red and green.

 

[BreeStephany]

Black, white, red and green.

You will need an additional conductor for your switch leg (SL) back from the last 3 way switch which will supply each light.

Your white is your neutral, your black & red are your travelers, your green is ground and you will need an additional conductor for the SL back to each light.



Forgive me for the sloppy, late night line diagram I threw together.... I used blue to signify the neutral conductor on the line diagram, but you will use your white conductor as your neutral.

Carry your neutrals to each switch location and then jump off of the neutral and switch leg to the lights at each building.

What is the distance between the buildings and the total load of the lights? You may need to upsize your conductor to account for voltage drop, as your line conductor supplying the light at the house will essentially be twice the distance of your collective conduit lengths + the distance from the switch to the light.

Just my two cents.

 

[6togo]

I opted to do a 3 way now not a 4 way being it don't meet code. I'm planning on having the lights and power at the source on the first switch and have the second switch at the house 175' away where the 3 wire will end. Light load is 4- 13w Led bulbs and 2- 23w spot lights so based on charts 12 wire is fine for that distance.

 

[cybrdyke]

www.casetawireless.com
Bring the power to one switch and then you can have as many other switches as you need, without confusing wiring diagrams or code issues.
CD

 

[6togo]

I did think about wireless but they are rated at 50' away from the master switch. I'm 175'.