4 Wire to 3 Wire

[bczygan]

So there is a panel in my basement, looks like it's fed from the meter box.

Two 220V circuits in it, 40A and 30A. No main breaker. The 40 served a range sometime in the past.The 30A served a dryer sometime in the past.

I want to use the 30A circuit for a very temporary (Until I get a new main service panel) hookup for a compressor.

The 30A circuit has black and red going from the breaker to the outlet. A white and ground go from the combined neutral/ground buss bar to the outlet.

I've cut the outlet off because it is water damaged.

I want to connect a 3 wire to this circuit outside of the panel, using the existing wires. My three new wires are black, white and ground.

Do I connect new black to existing black and new white to existing red and leave the existing white capped? Grounds connected of course.


Thank you to all the sparkies!

Bill

 

[sberry]

Yes, correct.

 

[bczygan]

OK,

Thank you sberry.

Time to try it and see if any smoke leaks out...

Bill

 

[MFortie]

The assumption is you want a 30A, 240V circuit out of it? Not a 30A, 120V (like for an RV) circuit?

(I know you said compressor, just verifying... )

 

[Lassen Forge]

You may need to order a couple of these in case it does.

Note - no warranty is implied on compatability between US 3-wire/4-wire 220 smoke and UK Lucas Smoke. Use at your own risk.

 

[bczygan]

I think my system uses generic smoke, so any brand will do.

But only a special (And very expensive) SO smoke insertion tool will work to reinstall it.

So if it leaks I'm SOL.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

The compressor is running and making a racket (Oil-less), but also a sick rattle, and slow to fill, so I think it may need a rebuild. I'm letting it run until it shuts off to see what the shut off pressure is set at since it doesn't have a regulator.

Still running after about 40 minutes. I should check the pressure.

Craftsman 919.165612 60 Gal. vertical.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

I stopped it at 125PSI. Don't want no booms.

Bill

Thanks to sberry. That's my first 240V hook up. Running 12/2 from a 30A outlet and the compressor had a 20A plug, but I put on a 30A locking.

Very cool.

 

[sberry]

40 minutes is way too long. Sumpthin wrong. Maybe its stuck, maybe busticated. A fill should take about 6 minutes with a good pump and 7 or 8 with a worn out one.

 

[bczygan]

Sounds like I get to take it apart.

A good method is to be a detective as I do so, to find what parts need replacing, and which do not.

It makes a metal clattering sound when running, that is above and beyond a normal loud oil-less compressor sound. Could it be a broken rod? Would the compressor even run and build pressure with a broken one? And which side is most apt to break? Low or high pressure?

More compressor questions:

When I take it apart, what things should be replaced as a matter of course.

And how do I examine the various parts for wear or damage?

Bill

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Whats the HP rating of the motor?

 

[Hawk]

Just a WAG but if that is a oil-less compressor, sounds like it could possibly be a reed valve, bent or broken.

 

[bczygan]

Whats the HP rating of the motor?

Model No. 919.165612
Running HP 2.9
Bore 2.375
Stroke-High Pressure .54"
Low Pressure 1.45"
Voltage-Single Phase 240/60/1
Minimum Branch Circuit Requirement 15 amps
Fuse Type Time Delay
Air Tank Capacity - Gallons 60
Approximate Cut-in Pressure 145
Approximate Cut-out Pressure 175
SCFM@ 40 psig 9.6
SCFM@ 90 psig 9.0

 

[dave*99]

If I read all this correct, it looks like you ran 12/2 on the 30A breaker. Your compressor requires a 15A circuit minimum. With the 12/2 wire, you should have a 20A 2-pole breaker.

A friend of mine just acquired the same compressor. Used and busted. It has a broken connecting rod. Parts are available. We will see how loud it is after repair........

 

[sberry]

This might need the larger breaker, if the machine needs a min 15 it will not overheat a 12 wire. He could go to 40 legal and in some cases a 12 wire ma be used on a 50A circuit, welders with 12 cords are plugged in to it all the time, most of them except 250 feeders.
Now,,, back to the case at hand. The compressor for what it is. It is something to consider and I have been pecking at Bill to get some glasses in regards to equipment. The comp is a junk, itgs probably not worth fixing and my bet is you could score one like it in running condition for less than the cost of parts, all this stuff is a pain in the ***.
Bill may even have other compressors, he doesn't have to put every rebuild piece in something like this. I would be looking at it, maybe tear it apart for giggles, see if its something simple, see if it is something that cost 10$ and takes 10 minutes or an hour to fix, if not shove this pos in the scrap and move on.
Get one running before thinking about rebuilding everything, you got 2 parts washers, get one working then decide if you need 2, fix a faulty circuit then you can work on the ultimate service upgrade.
I am glad you got it hooked up and tested. The place you live should be a sea of bargains, something minor, etc. My Bud hauled off a 4 year old lawn tractor, the guy had bought it, ran the thing for a couple hrs, it quit, he pushed it in to the garage for 4 yrs, got tired of looking at it, pushed it to the curb for trash day. My Bud drags it on a trailer, took home and put gas in it, been using it since.

 

[sberry]

He was from Detroit like Bill, was a fireman, I knew a bunch of those guys. This one was one of the best salvage types I have ever met, made him a millionaire a couple over in some sense.
He knew investment and money and the cheapest way to do anything and could cut some losses and would do so especially by giving it away. If he decidided he couldn't sell it he would try to gift it to someone that actually wanted it or could have a use. It wasn't hoarding so much, he was gld to part with anything for a buck.
If he scored an Air cond he find out if it worked, if it was simple it got fixed, if it cost work and some expensive part off it went. The man build 5 homes like this I know of.
People knew they took good stuff, they had a 2 car and a bedroom they used for small stuff. I been there, maybe Deerborn maybe suburbs, couldn't have junk but they would save stuff, pack the van and on occasion a small trailer and spend the next morning at a flea for 3 hrs till it was gone or at end gave or really at e end and went to the nearest dumpster and he said,,, you want any of this,,, he would sell it for a dollar, said, I made 400 this morning, go there at 8 30 and it was 11 30, left after seeing all the locals they knew along the way.
He took low hanging fruit, said he had to be careful to make it manageable. He wasnt much of a buyer and seller but a seller of stuff he found a niche for, stuff he got for free. At his career was involved in condemning property. He traded with like minded buds.
I wanted some light fixtures. I asked, about 3 months later 19 4 lamps flos show up. He had condemned an office, then contacted the owners and they were more than happy to have a couple floors stripped for free. One being part time trucker brought a flat and a van. They took wives and kids on a Saturday and marched 2x4's, had a cook out, filled the whole fuggin deal with grade stamped 2x4's and a bunch of fixtures.
Said they split it 3 ways, built a house and a garage here, am sure some he had went elsewhere. Sold what fixtures they could at fleas and gave the rest to friends that wanted them.
Point of all this is that I would be real careful about time and material, this is a hobby of sorts, do it cheap easy and free and concentrate on practical safety and cost saving items. Find and keep the best and sell the rest, s you get a nicer one can trade to it.
I have a cousin is a collector of Winchester, does very well at it. Not a compulsive collector but a trader and not about all things guns but very specific, other Winchester equipment. Has a collection that is always improving, very limited and sells excess that is less condition etc.

 

[altersaddle]

I fixed up an oil-less bostitch pancake compressor. The new belt and fittings for the unloader hose ended up costing what I sold it for. Wasn't worth my time to fix the thing.

 

[sberry]

My backup cmp is like that. I might not have one but for thefact someone gave me one that had a problem. Didn't even bother to ring it, cleaned the body dust out of the pump, made a head gasket from header stuff and managed to find a contactor for free, a days work, done all that I asked of it, dint need every piece rebuilt.
I have fixed and remaned a lot of equipment, some good and some not so good but I do it less, am more cautious and focus more on utility/service, get 1 good thing that works right where there is return or equity. I will fix the car but not restoring the family Pontiac. Very few cars really worth painting, look nice for a bit in some cases but don't last much longer.

 

[bczygan]

Detroit SHOULD be a sea of bargains, but it isn't.

The first few waves of old retired folk have long since moved to the suburbs, or more likely, Florida.

All those e great deals are long gone.

And the people left here have nothing, but want gold for it. It's dog eat dog for the scraps left on the table.

So, back to this compressor.

I just bled the air out and tore into it. There was a step by step on pump repair, on the Sears website.

Some parts are relatively cheap, and some more expensive. Purchase price was $60 on the compressor. Yes, it's loud as heck. But if I can rebuild it reasonably, it will serve me for a while, as a bigger shop compressor than the pancake I'm using now.

I'm tempted to do a thread on this rebuild.

So everyone come on over to the compressor pump rebuild thread I'm starting. I could use some advice as I go along, as I'm a total newbie on this stuff.

But give me some time to get the thread populated with photos and such.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5636141#post5636141


Bill

 

[astroracer]

I have a 5 horse C-Man oiless and I had to pull the head off the compressor and fix the gasket. It had popped out of it's groove. I cleaned it all up and put a thin (VERY thin) coat of permatex on both sides before buttoning it back up. Haven't had a problem with it in 4 years. And yes, it is VERY loud...
Mark

 

[sberry]

Look for one with a bad plug on the end. Look for one someone offs for 50 with a loose belt. I like that above, fixed the gasket and at least looking at the thing before blazing off to a rebuild, see whats wrong with it.

So everyone come on over to the compressor pump rebuild thread I'm starting. I could use some advice as I go along, as I'm a total newbie on this stuff.

Bill, you are not a newbie but your mechanical problems are not individual problem but more of an assessment and perspective nature. We go from not realizing there is something wrong at 40 minutes to wanting to do an all out reman. Does the pancake you have now actually suffice?
I have relatives from down there. They have a bunch of nice stuff call me about near want to give pricing, they are pretty savy and got 50 in their pocket but a little like used cars, doesn't matter how much you put it in to it the book is about the same. If there is demand there will be someone pay you more than your broke one is worth. You could put a new pump on it and would raise it some but likely not worth it.
I got a little gem too good to be true from Clist for 50. What a deal, stalled 2 journeyman for a day and wew have another day fugging with everything that could go wrong with it. I tested it, all appeared to work. Not so after we tried to use if. Eventually after another pump, vales regulator, removing that heavy reel, welding hole in tank from axle. finally tosses a rod.
200$ for a new box store pos and I would have not missed a beat and it will still work.

 

[sberry]

By the time I was done with it over a day of fabrication and all I used original was the motor, tank and belt gard, as I recall so far motor not being the only piece work on and its still hard to pass off for 50$.
My Buds widow didn't mind me stealing one, only good thing on here was a pump and maybe regulator, it was a mess and needed to be condemned, they tried to get a 20 for it at yard sale, no go.
I fixed another one for here she thought was broke but a loose belt and its good.
The internet has allowed some parts sopping so a guy can compare without commitment and don't buy stuff before completely disassembling. I go a double college graduate here trying to work on an ATV axle and cant get it apart qand the grease wiped off before tgetting in a panic and looking up everything ever printed, doesn't understand one word of it, gonna pile it in a box and take it to someone cause she basically aint got the sense to wipe the grease off and try to match a couple parts. She did manage to find a real deal on the problem, I was kind of impressed but it was kind of a lucky shot and pretty simple where the pitchures are big... ha

 

[sberry]

I finally cornered her, handcuffed her to it and led thru, took about an hour real work, made her tear it apart a couple times, finally got the idea a 10 minute tear down was minor and gives a feel for how it all works along the way.

 

[bczygan]

I finally cornered her, handcuffed her to it and led thru, took about an hour real work, made her tear it apart a couple times, finally got the idea a 10 minute tear down was minor and gives a feel for how it all works along the way.

Yes,
Tear down is telling me a lot.

Bill

 

[sberry]

You will know more than both of us, I never had one apart or even worked on one.

 

[Dragfluid]

I didn't think that those oilless POS (yes, I have one too) had any parts inside of them, except for a large ********, along with an even bigger amplifier and speaker!

 

[bczygan]

Rebuild thread is up and waiting for comments and suggestions.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324704

Bill